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36 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

Ah, puts it in better perspective ... Bill never knew what to do with her either. I think he finds the idea of a character more interesting than the actual execution and he swiftly loses interest. He lost interest in Kristen fairly quick too, didn't he? You can see a lot of comparisons in casting on B&B to that of Y&R and how maybe he wanted to emulate some of them (Ashley/Kristen spring to mind, but I don't think Kristen was ever on par with Ashley but I haven't seen enough of OG Kristen yet to form an opinion)

 

Kristen has strong focus till she leaves in 1990.

 

Why Brooke was his muse when i found her character limiting..I'll never get.

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19 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

 

Kristen has strong focus till she leaves in 1990.

 

Why Brooke was his muse when i found her character limiting..I'll never get.

 

That's good to know about Kristen.

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i think Katie was written for the teenage public - she had acne problems, love problems and so on. Then she staid for the story with Father Logan. And as far as i remember Katie left with Logan family for Paris in 1989. Storm had a story in 1989 when Taylor came in and then he was also on recurring status.

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20 hours ago, sheilaforever said:

Time-line wise, Donna had Marcus BEFORE we met her in 1987...

 

As for BIll, this was a major retcon. But not the first one with SPencer children. Both Karen and Bill Jr. were NEVER intended during these 1987/1988 episodes...

 

EDIT: Brooke's "romance" with Dave was one of the key reasons why I always stood with Stephanie and Taylor that Brooke cannot be trusted and is nothing but a calculating gold digger. Contrary to you guys I also felt very uneasy by Brooke and Donna folowing the papers and then showing up at the hospital to socialise with Caroline. Talk about creepy!

 

 

If she already had Marcus, I guess you could read that to explain why Beth really didn't want her going to the beach party, yet Brooke still thought she was innocent. Really hard to believe that she got pregnant by Justin with Storm always hovering around... must have gotten it on in the bleachers at the gym, lol.

 

I knew that Bill was a retcon, but I'd never realized how adamant the writers were that Caroline was an ONLY child, and Bill Sr had NO ONE ELSE. I just thought he'd never been mentioned. How was Karen introduced then? She was a new character when I started watching. Bill had money and a stable marriage... how on earth did they just "lose" a twin? She wouldn't have been adopted out, surely.

 

Brooke going to the hospital was bad enough... I guess I could see a young girl getting starstruck and wanting to see celebs in person... but to actually go into Caroline's hospital room and talk to her... and for Caroline to be fine with it... really ridiculous. Maybe it played differently in the 80s before the privacy laws were expanded. Brooke is definitely stringing Dave along, wondering what life would have been like had her father made money... but you can sort of understand it, since she hasn't even graduated college yet and doesn't want to be tied down into a lifelong commitment. I really hated Brooke in the 90s and actually see her in a slightly more sympathetic light in these episodes, but the seeds are there. 

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3 hours ago, BoldRestless said:

I knew that Bill was a retcon, but I'd never realized how adamant the writers were that Caroline was an ONLY child, and Bill Sr had NO ONE ELSE. I just thought he'd never been mentioned. How was Karen introduced then? She was a new character when I started watching. Bill had money and a stable marriage... how on earth did they just "lose" a twin? She wouldn't have been adopted out, surely.

 

It was quickly established in December 1991 to allow Joanna Johnson to return as the failed Karen character: Karen was kidnapped as an infant (which Carioline apparently knew nothing about) so that's why she was not ever mentioned in 1987 onwards. Bonnie Roberts who was an aid to the kidnappers then took the child (when they wanted to get rid of it after a failed money exchange) and fled through the entire US, ending her un in Starlight (Texas) where she raised he girl as Faith Roberts and lived a simple life until Blake Hayes passed through town.

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12 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Katie was this show's Peggy Brooks

 

12 hours ago, KMan101 said:

Ah, puts it in better perspective ... Bill never knew what to do with her either. I think he finds the idea of a character more interesting than the actual execution and he swiftly loses interest. He lost interest in Kristen fairly quick too, didn't he?

 

I think Bill Bell LIKED the idea of large families on soaps, but often had a difficult time finding stories for all the siblings.  Once he focused on one or two siblings in particular -- Brooke Logan, Ridge & Thorne Forrester, Chris & Lorie & Leslie Brooks, Paul & Patty Williams -- the others fell by the wayside.  IMO, Y&R's Foster and Abbott clans were his most successful, because there were only three siblings in each (Snapper, Greg and Jill; and Jack, Ashley and Traci).

Edited by Khan

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the story of Karen was well written in unlike the one for Bill jr. and Marcus. Sometimes i wonder did Bell son ever watched his fathers episodes ? Somethings are so unbelievable or do not pass to the previous stories.

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Three thoughts after finally re-watching Kristen's party episode from the start.  (1)Is there rational given in 1988 for why Caroline still lives at the Forrester house without the benefit of marriage?  It seems odd to have terminated an engagement, but stay in your in-laws' house.  (2) 32 years later the vibe between Stephanie and Ridge is uncomfortable.  I thought it was clever later when they referenced it in the Mossimo Morone story (I wonder who was the inspiration for that character's name?)  (3) And if they're really the 10 most eligible bachelors in Los Angeles, why are they all available on the same night?

Edited by j swift

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Answers :) 1. In 1988 Caroline is maried to Thorne so it is normal to be in the house; 2. I think Massimo was not intended in so early stage it was Bell son's invention; 3. If you are an eligible bachelor and you are invited to a Forrester party it is supposed to be prestigious so you will make yourself available ;)

Edited by Marquise

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On 5/10/2019 at 3:53 PM, Khan said:

 

 

I think Bill Bell LIKED the idea of large families on soaps, but often had a difficult time finding stories for all the siblings.  Once he focused on one or two siblings in particular -- Brooke Logan, Ridge & Thorne Forrester, Chris & Lorie & Leslie Brooks, Paul & Patty Williams -- the others fell by the wayside.  IMO, Y&R's Foster and Abbott clans were his most successful, because there were only three siblings in each (Snapper, Greg and Jill; and Jack, Ashley and Traci).

I think the idea of large families came about because writers realized that after several years the original characters become 'worn out' and fresher family members are ready to step up into the limelight. That's the theory but it doesn't always work in practice because it's hard to leave the original characters behind and make room for the newbies.

In the case of B&B the actors chosen for Katie/Donna/Storm/Kristen weren't strong enough and therefore Bill wasn't inspired and so they got less attention...self fulfilling prophecy.

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I would disagree about Donna...she had a lot of focus into 1990...and than just as she was getting a new story...the actress quit.  But she was fairly well liked and written for..hence why she was spared from the Logan family axe.

 

Kristen got a lot of focus up till she left suddenly in 1990.  Its interesting how stephanie had bad relationships with botth daughters..but in different ways.  Jealousy of some sort in regards to Kristen...and in regards to Felicia..because they were so alike.

 

I also think Sally Spectra being popular changed the landscape of the show..and adding Macy as her resentful daughter made Kristen less necessary.  

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On 5/10/2019 at 7:59 AM, Marquise said:

i think Katie was written for the teenage public - she had acne problems, love problems and so on. Then she staid for the story with Father Logan. And as far as i remember Katie left with Logan family for Paris in 1989. Storm had a story in 1989 when Taylor came in and then he was also on recurring status.

They left September 1988. Eric decided to stay with Stephanie due to "Angela" and Beth and Stephen moved to Paris. 

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On 5/11/2019 at 7:14 PM, Soaplovers said:

I would disagree about Donna...she had a lot of focus into 1990...and than just as she was getting a new story...the actress quit.  But she was fairly well liked and written for..hence why she was spared from the Logan family axe.

 

Kristen got a lot of focus up till she left suddenly in 1990.  Its interesting how stephanie had bad relationships with botth daughters..but in different ways.  Jealousy of some sort in regards to Kristen...and in regards to Felicia..because they were so alike.

 

I also think Sally Spectra being popular changed the landscape of the show..and adding Macy as her resentful daughter made Kristen less necessary.  

A lot of the actors from the first season were not very polished or strong. Terri Ann Linn only survived as long as she did because Daniel McVicar was an unexpected instant success. As soon as he was absorbed into Sally's orbit and with Colleen Dion's arrival as Felicia who was a fierce actress, Kristen was completely unnecessary.

 

Katie and Storm were never given a proper chance (or storyline for that matter) as characters so it's hard to say whether the actors were really that bland. We will also never know how much was altered from the original plan due to the writer's strike of 1988. Bill Bell was famous for writing meticulous long and detailed outlines (and very much ahead), yet is not credited on the 1988 episodes as soon as the strike material started. So maybe Katie or Storm were supposed to have some sort of story but I doubt it.

 

Quick heads for the YouTube episodes of Amy Silence: the Angela story will kick off in 10 episodes...

 

 

On a more trivial note as I was never expecting to get to see those pristine quality B&B episodes from 1988 including full credits: it is very interesting to see some random directors being involved with the show back then. Doug Rogers!? Bob Bowker!? 

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1078924/

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0736848/

It is evident that John Zak - after his successful directing gig at Y&R - became a regular director on B&B at the same time that Bill Glenn left and the show had only one regular director: Michael Stich - who at that time was still very young. There were LOADS of freelance directors hired or trial gigs happening from March-July 1988, it seems. This became really uncommon during the 1990s and onwards with the taping schedule getting tighter and soaps relying on a rather fixed set of contract directors. And the tenure of Dennis Steinmetz as producer (and occasional director) was also rather brief considering that the succeeding producers at B&B stayed for at least 5 years or until their respective retirement.

 

Edited by sheilaforever

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