B&B: Old/Classic Discussion & Articles

[Soapfan8]

I liked both years but I preffeded the first half of 2015, 2014 and the first half of 2015 were the best years since 2005. I liked the production of 2014 and the modern reboot, but the triangles were annoying.

[Videnbas]

I just reached episode 1444 (the day before the 1992 Christmas episode) and I was wondering if anyone else found it as wonderful as I did.

B&B holiday episodes usually go for heartwarming Christmas spirit and all that but this one was like no other I've seen, because it focused not on the joyful side of Christmas but the painful side - the sadness and loneliness that comes from being on the outside looking in and not being a part of the Christmas cheer that surrounds you. It was very poignant and well written. Truly a hidden gem.

Do you have any favorite "special"/holiday/family celebration episodes?

Hoping for more 1993 episodes soon because the show is getting so good now I just want to keep watching!

Edited June 7, 2022 by Videnbas

[Althea Davis]

I second that... hopefully our angel will save us oncw again

[Soapfan8]

What has been ur favorite recent year of the show? Mine would be the first half of 2015, the only year that could compete with pre 2006 of the show probably. 

[Videnbas]

I kind of liked 2017 when they were doing the Spectra reboot and bringing back Sheila. But sadly, the initial ideas were better than the follow-up. Both returns started out very promising but ended in a very disappointing way.

I also enjoyed Aly in (I think) 2014-2015.

[sheilaforever]

I second both. Mid 2014-2015 was GREAT. The best in many years. 2017 showed lots of promise and did some good stuff like the Spectra revival and Sheila's return. It fizzled in the fall, but overall it was still highly watchable. Ever since the only really strong moments were the baby Beth baby switch, Thomas and the Mannequin plus Sheila's latest return. Oh, and for camp's sake I really digged Sally's fake illness with Dr. Penny Escobar the wannabe designer.

 

EDIT: cast wise - 2022 is the strongest set-up in more than a decade, IMO. Bringing back Sheila, Deacon and Taylor were all unexpected but oh so smart decisions which have potential for greatness.

Edited June 9, 2022 by sheilaforever

[Videnbas]

Yes, just looking at the cast the show has HUGE potential right now. Bringing back Sheila and Deacon at once, and putting them in each other's orbit, could have been a stroke of genius. They could EASILY have been the new Sheila and Mike since they have great "partners in crime" chemistry. It wouldn't take much to make the scenes with Deacon and Sheila a joy to watch because the actors have what it takes to make magic together.

Sadly, I keep getting disappointed because the writing isn't there to back it up. I feel both Sheila and Deacon are given dialogue and scenes that are just so beneath them - these are (or should be) two of the most sharp-witted characters on the show. But they spend most of their scenes treading water.

Also, the whole Sheila/Taylor angle could have been fantastic - their rooftop scenes showed seeds of something truly great.

But I am getting the same feeling that I did back in 2017 - the show introduces some AMAZING ideas and then proceeds to miss every beat.

I am currently watching the 1993 episodes in parallel with keeping up with the current ones and I just find it so hard to see Sheila as the same character. 1993 Sheila is always scheming. You can see the wheels turning in her mind 24/7. 2022 Sheila just spent 3 months in her hotel room obsessing over one switched bottle label, while completely losing track of her main objective which was to gain access to her son and grandson. Sheila may be crazy, but there always used to be method to her madness.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Videnbas

[Althea Davis]

Yep... different character... 2022 sheila is not sheila

[Videnbas]

And it saddens me because it seems like KB is really trying but everything works against her - the plot structure, the dialogue, even the camera angles and background music, everything seems designed to make Sheila more cartoonish, and it was the same in 2017. The sound engineer even adds reverb when she laughs to make the laugh more diabolical. Not easy to do a nuanced portrayal under those circumstances.

1993 Sheila still had her own theme music that followed her around, but only when her mind was working on something sinister. I feel this time around they are misusing Sheila's theme to create tension when it isn't there in the writing.

But then again, all the veterans are unrecognizable these days. Brooke is a shadow of her former self. Eric is an old fool. Taylor and Ridge are obviously not the same characters (even though KA occasionally channels 2002 HT). Deacon is the only one who is still somewhat in character, although he seems to become more of a loser every time he appears on the show (and the show has now completely forgotten that he too is an alcoholic).

Edited June 9, 2022 by Videnbas

[Planet Soap]

History repeats itself. 2002, Sheila in jail for "killing" the secretly alive Taylor and wounding Brooke.

2022 Sheila in jail for "killing the secretly alive Finn and wounding Steffy. Now Mike is back!

1990-2002 and 2005 are the only Sheila years I care for.

Edited June 9, 2022 by ironlion

[Videnbas]

Since the show just brought back Mike, I was wondering if you have a favorite Sheila/Mike scene?

The one with the elevator and the Dobermann is classic of course, but I really loved all their early encounters - just watched the one where he tries to force her to have sex with him and she turns the tables on him and threatens to "turn him from a bull to a heifer" using a pair of scissors. Mike goes from believing he, the tough guy in a uniform, can intimidate a little nurse into having his way with her, to utter terror when it dawns on him that one does not mess with Sheila Carter.

I always thought Sheila added drama to B&B, but it's not until Mike comes along that the character really reaches her peak IMO. They truly were the perfect match.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Videnbas

[sheilaforever]

It's really difficult to pin it down to a favorite scene. They had so much great story going and the show was so smart to constantly bring back Mike in the 90s just when you thought that he was dropped for good.

 

The early stuff is oh so interesting because Mike was introduced as being tech-savvy and Sheila had to use quite a lot of her femine charme to play him. Later on, Mike was head over heels in love with his "babe" and therefore came off as rather one-note. I thought it was a shame that the Psycho house story with Mike and his brother Marty was cut short due to Kimberlin Brown's pregnancy because there was so much potential.

[sheilaforever]

I'm slightly torn on the assessment that all of these characters are a shell of their former self. Putting aside the obvious much less skillful storylines than in the good old days, I think some parts of Brooke's and Sheila's character is a natural evolution which is actually believable. The Brooke of old was a chemist and smart business woman. Nowadays, she is a desperate housewife who is walking around Forrester Creations in perfect hair, awesome outfits and big clutches, but does NOTHING. However, I could never care for Brooke back then because she was a pathetic homewrecker who always put her needs and destiny of the month first. Therefore, I like Grande Dame Brooke (which started around 2012 with occasional back to the roots moments like "Brill" affair) much better and think it suits her age and role in life to be more grounded - admittedly to some extent Brooke is now more boring, but I think B&B did the right thing by adding a viable younger generation because some stories should not be told with the old guard.

 

Same goes for Sheila: she was always struggling to find love because she lacked something in her childhood. She wanted to e loved for who she is, but was never able to experience true love. All this backstory was told on B&B in the mid/late 90s, sometimes in a rather religious context like in 1996. The evolution of Sheila already began with Amber and having a child with James.

 

I'm pretty surprised by the praise for her 2002 return: while it made great TV, it all really hurt her character: she killed Lance with bees (IMO; her only REAL murder) and her sole ambition was to get her daughter pregnant by Rick!? The shooting at the Forrester Mansion was an accident; so there were chances for redemption which Brad Bell did not follow up with. Her 2005 Y&R run started off amazing but then it was like WTF - and already over. Therefore; I liked her 2017 with a balance of camp and excitement, but never jumping the shark. Sheila's antics are now more grounded and less extreme. For this reason I find her current run also pretty smart and it is actually classic Bell storytelling that a character is making a BIIIIIG fuss about switching a lable of a bottle. Remember the good old days on Y&R and B&B when we viewers were on the edge of our seats by such important decisions (which often took and entire week) whether Nikki was driving into town from the ranch to confront Ashley!?

 

My point is: yes, the production values of B&B are way less exciting. The storylines used to be plotted smarter with better build-up (that said, I think Brad Bell and team show actual ambition to tell more than just one story at a time and make the consecutive stories actually fit with each other in the past 2 years…). On the other hand, I appreciate that Brooke or Sheila of 2022 act different than they did 20 or 30 years ago. It is always a thin line to keep such an evolution in line with the nature of the character. At least for those two, I can dig it. What I could do without is the hallowing sounds around Kimberlin Brown’s scenes because as you pointed it, it totally defeats the purpose to make her an adult character which wants to be good but somehow ends up doing bad stuff.

Edited June 12, 2022 by sheilaforever

[Videnbas]

Yes, I agree that the character evolution of Brooke and Sheila as such is not necessarily unbelievable, it's just the way it is realized on screen that bugs me - especially when it comes to Sheila because I feel like KB has been aiming for "subtly unbalanced but trying to be good" ever since 2017 but the director or whoever makes those decisions about the camera angles and the soundtrack obviously has "cartoon villain" in mind and it really undermines her more nuanced acting choices when we get extreme closeups of Sheila's sinister smile accompanied by sinister theme music and a sinister laugh with sinister reverb (while the entire rest of the cast tells us in dialogue that Sheila is "crazy", in case we didn't get it) - without Sheila actually having done anything sinister yet. The writing also tends to undermine Sheila as a character - especially during her current run where the things she does and the dialogue she is given to speak are usually so far beneath the wit, intelligence and cleverness I have come to expect from Sheila that it almost feels like 2022 Sheila is suffering from early onset dementia. Sheila used to think, and act, much FASTER than she does now. She would not sit alone in her hotel room for three months contemplating the results of her latest scheme. She would keep moving, keep her plan progressing.

And another thing that bothers me this time around is the fundamental motivation surrounding Sheila. In current episodes, Sheila seems motivated by anger, and she seems to inspire anger in everyone else. But that is NOT what Sheila was about. Sheila was always about fear, not anger. She feared others and others feared her. All her worst deeds were always driven by fear, not aggression. Sheila was always (in her own mind) acting defensively. And others in turn were defending themselves against her. They did not deliberately and unnecessarily "poke" Sheila the way Brooke and Steffy have done this time around. Making Sheila all about anger makes her less threatening, not more.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Videnbas

[Althea Davis]

Having watched nearly all of the classic Bell Sheila stuff I disagree that 2021-2022 Sheila is similar... The bottle storyline was idiotic... Ive lived with an alcoholic and it is not possible to give someone who knows the real stuff... real stuff and them just NOT realizing it is. You cant get drunk and dont realize you are drinking real stuff. It was stupid... bad writing. And it took like 4 months for them to stop getting back to the memory of Sheila messing with bottles. Back in the day in 4 months... Sheila... manipulated like... 10 people and went AHEAD... There was so much stuff and suspense in 4 months... now... there is 1 changing of bottles and her smiling and laughing with fake sound effects for 4 months. It is bad. Lazy writing. 

 

And Brooke has always been written as histrionic woman constantly obsessed with love and destiny... using sex as a weapon... with VERY bad impulse control. The problem is again that the new Brooke is a dull version of the old... everything is the same... as a histrionic personality but it is written in lazy slow motion... in like 6 months all Brooke has done is kissed Deacon and cried and said she is sorry. Back in the day in 6 months Brooke would have got pregnant... stolen a company...had like 10 altercations with Stephanie or Taylor... Brooke does not look and talk like Brooke. Histrionic personality is not BORING... And the new Brooke is... and her wardrobe is disgusing for a very rich woman in fashion. She goes around with sportswear and manly shirts all the time... KKL has AMAZING body... Where are the dresses... where is Brooke's sexiness. She could still rock it... But nowadays NOBODY looks good anymore... The clothes look incredibly cheap and incomparable with the past.

BB lack the glamour, the fast-pacedness, the suspense... It has become a boring, repetitive junk that makes you sleep. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by divinemotion