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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, blueberrywaffle said:

Why did Terry leave in 1987 ?  I am watching German episodes and he is replaced by someone else.

He was making a movie. I think we discussed it previously and I shared an article. However I will have to double check and try to find it. 

Here it is. An ABC tv movie called Hollow Point

 

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Edited by will81
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On 7/31/2021 at 3:56 PM, FrenchBug82 said:

I don't think it was unreasonable although of course none of us know why and how the talks broke down. There might have been unreasonableness! Who knows? In a show that's not doing well financially - look at the sets - even a reasonable request from her might have been too much. The veterans probably hog a chunk of the performer budget and producers may not have much room to move for most recent arrivals, even a star like MM
But she absolutely was a headliner and they should have tried to hang on to her.
And they definitely shouldn't have killed Hillary off - although "retribution" sounds a step beyond what we know.
Soaps short-sightedly kill off characters all the time.
All of this was a screw-up but there does not need to be anything personal involved.
Who knows?

I think a request for an actual raise on a daytime soap is probably out of the question.   A "raise" on a soap seems to be not taking a deep paycut at the end of a contract cycle.  

There's no big mystery why Ronn Moss left B&B.  When his multi-year contract deal expired in 2012, they bumped his pay from $700,000 to year down to $400,000 per year.   And he was probably at that time the biggest "star" on the show.  His pay was reduced by virtually 50%, and he said, "No thanks!" They replaced him with a non-working actor who was willing to settle for the smaller amount.   (All of that is disclosed in court documents relating to child support obligations).  

If the girl who played Hilary Curtis was offered the same amount as her previous contract, without a 50% decrease, that's probably about as close as a soap performer is gonna get to a raise.  

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54 minutes ago, Broderick said:

There's no big mystery why Ronn Moss left B&B.  When his multi-year contract deal expired in 2012, they bumped his pay from $700,000 to year down to $400,000 per year.   And he was probably at that time the biggest "star" on the show.  His pay was reduced by virtually 50%, and he said, "No thanks!"

That's very interesting actually. Didn't know the numbers.

Gonna ask if RM wouldn't wish he was making $350000 a year now, half of what he once earned it might have been.

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2 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

That's very interesting actually. Didn't know the numbers.

Gonna ask if RM wouldn't wish he was making $350000 a year now, half of what he once earned it might have been.

Yep, he went into great detail about having to sell a house and make withdrawals from his IRA in order to pay his bills.  He asked that his monthly child support payments be reduced as a result.  The judge basically said, "Naw, you should've taken the $400,000 they offered you."   

I can see both sides of it.   Why would he want to continue working the same number of hours as before for about half the earnings?  But on the other hand, how do you go from $700,000 income to $0?   It would be a tough choice for a lot of actors, I guess.  But that seems to be the reality that soap actors have been dealing with for the past ten or fifteen years.  Raises seem pretty nonexistent, and very drastic pay cuts are the reality of the industry.  

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14 minutes ago, Broderick said:

Yep, he went into great detail about having to sell a house and make withdrawals from his IRA in order to pay his bills.  He asked that his monthly child support payments be reduced as a result.  The judge basically said, "Naw, you should've taken the $400,000 they offered you."   

I can see both sides of it.   Why would he want to continue working the same number of hours as before for about half the earnings?  But on the other hand, how do you go from $700,000 income to $0?   It would be a tough choice for a lot of actors, I guess.  But that seems to be the reality that soap actors have been dealing with for the past ten or fifteen years.  Raises seem pretty nonexistent, and very drastic pay cuts are the reality of the industry.  

The reality of it is that he expected to walk and be begged back on. That's the only way his bluff makes sense.
Sure a 50% pay cut sucks but a third of a million dollars a year is still an excellent salary and the hours at B&B are hardly mine work. And not to be unkind but it was always obvious there was no other acting work waiting for RM outside of B&B. His longevity on the show was his only trump card, not his talent.

So I think he made a bet that Bell couldn't recast a thirty-year veteran - original actor or that if he did, it woudn't take.
Whatever one might think of the way it changed Ridge as a character, it did take and now RM is unemployed. Sometimes when you play chicken you do end up losing!

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Plus he had to continue paying Miss Shattuck the same amount of child support as he'd paid when he was making $700,000 per year.  (The "telling" aspect of the ordeal was that his new 2012 contract [$400,000] was for a ONE-year deal, not three or five.  So they likely planned to bump him down even lower the following year.  That's why he seemed to bail-out.  He should've known he'd never have an income approaching $400,000 without B&B.)  

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I wonder if all this cost cutting extended to the writers and producers or were they still pocketing the big bucks?

It seems odd that they could just propose a 50% pay cut, aren't there some kind of union rules that would protect them from such drastic reductions?

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26 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

I wonder if all this cost cutting extended to the writers and producers or were they still pocketing the big bucks?

It seems odd that they could just propose a 50% pay cut, aren't there some kind of union rules that would protect them from such drastic reductions?

I imagine you can't propose this mid-contract but once a contract has ended why wouldn't they be able to change the terms they offer at will? Actor has chance to walk away if it doesn't work for them.
If both parties wanted a guarantee salary, they could sign a forever contract whereby the actor would be bound by the show and the show by the salary. But actors and shows find it to their advantage to have to renegotiate every few years.

 

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There's a minimum that an actor can earn, which is often referred to as "scale".   There's a certain "scale" for walk-ons, another "scale" for Under Fives, and another "scale" for contract actors.  It's on the SAG-AFTRA page.

In 2017, scale for a principal actor on an hour show was $1,038 per day.   Scale for a principal actor on a half-hour show was $778.   Scale for an under five on an hour show was $451 and on a half-hour show was $369.   If the day lasts longer than 8 1/2 hours, there's an increase in each category.  They're also guaranteed a break for a meal, and principals are guaranteed a closing (or opening) credit at least once a week, typically on Monday or Friday whenever possible.    

Ditto for writers, producers, and directors.  Their union guarantees them a certain "scale".   Their "scale" is higher on an hour-long show than on a half-hour show.   

In the past, we've seen most everyone on soaps earning way, way above scale.   Evidently that trend is coming to an end, and salaries are being adjusted downward considerably, in light of the tighter budget restrictions.  Clearly, Moss's offer of $400,000 is still FAR above scale, but for newer, younger actors, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are being signed at scale.  

If Moss were going to be used 3 times a week, 52 weeks a year, he'd have a total of 156 episodes a year.   At $400,000, that would be $2,564 per episode, as compared with "scale" of $778 for an actor on a half-hour show.  So even a "big-name star" like Ron Moss was being adjusted down to "scales times three", which is pretty low for someone who'd been driving story for 25 years.  Not saying I sympathize with him at all, just saying that's a BIG drop.  

Y'all can google "Ronn Moss vs Shari Shattuck" and get all the details

 

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Posted (edited)

Thank you so much for sharing this. The departures of Moss and Flannery probably were the reason why we didn’t see the budget cuts onscreen on B&B until 2020. the show saved a whopping million per annum without contractual hassles with others. My best guess I that KKL also took a paycut years ago down to 500 k, but we will not know for sure until she marries and divorces again, I guess.
 

By salary in 2021 Second in line probably should be Jacquie Wood these days due to her broad social media appeal. Followed by Scott Clifton (with quite a distance). Then some soap sets like John MCCook, Rena Sofer and Thorsten Kay. The rest probably is indeed down to the scale rates.

Edited by sheilaforever
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Posted (edited)

Yes, reading between the lines,  I would guess that McCook, Flannery, Moss, and Lang had similar salaries going into 2012.  

We know that Flannery opted to retire circa 2012 (probably the moment she was offered the $300,000 or so cut), as she was in her 70s and could afford retirement.  Moss was 60, and probably thought he'd be ok not working steadily -- he had $1,200,000 in his IRA, along with his residence and his rental property, according to the court documents -- so he also bailed out.   McCook and Lang evidently quietly accepted the smaller salary and went on about their business, possibly with some negotiation that left them with a (slightly) higher salary than what was initially offered to Moss.  

I suppose this "salary tangent" is in a sense, Y&R-related as the two are considered "sister shows" and both Shari Shattuck and John McCook have previously appeared on Y&R.   The reason I wandered into this rabbit hole is simply to state that Y&R actors probably shouldn't be expecting raises in a climate where talent is routinely given substantial cuts to meet the ever-declining soap budget.   

Edited by Broderick
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Posted (edited)

All the B&B salary talk is interesting! I feel like with Susan Flannery, she probably made more than Moss and also due to her age and how much she worked, she probably had bought property a lot sooner and worked on her savings. Considering he had no chance of booking another acting gig, he should've had a business plan outside of acting to make up for the lack of income. Vincent Irrizary for example is a real estate agent. If he had a backup like that him leaving would've made more sense. I bet he hates that they successfully recast and he'll never have a chance to return. Also, Katherine Kelly Lang has her own clothing line and a store so she's likely set up better than Ronn was and can afford the budget cut.

Edited by Chris B
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