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6 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

In a 1966 Variety ad, Irna Phillips and Bill Bell advertise a soap in development 'The Innocent Years'.

So did Bill just use that title later for Y&R, or did the 1966 proposal have some elements of Y&R ??

 

Good question.  I'm guessing he just recycled the title of a soap that never happened.  His 1972 prep-work on Y&R seemed to happen rather quickly, and in a backwards fashion.  First, he got the greenlight to go ahead with his project, and only then did he begin working on his bible and character outlines, which evidently underwent several major revisions before making it to the screen.  

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On 7/28/2021 at 3:24 PM, BoldRestless said:

My best guess, from talking to people who made compilations like this, is that they did transfer the clips onto a new tape, but then reused the original tape that had the full episodes, because tapes were expensive back then. I am so puzzled at how difficult it is to find episodes of a popular soap like Y&R when there is so much available of other shows. Part of it is Sony being aggressive, but even if they don't show up on YouTube, you would think at least they would be around on tape and DVD trading sites.

That would be such a shame if they reused the tape with the full episodes, but I understand why they would with tapes being as expensive as they were. As far as the difficulty to find episodes of Y&R from the early 80's, I'm as puzzled as you are, especially for the early 80's (1983, specifically). There are plenty of episodes from that year concerning other soaps, especially on this site (https://soapoperas.webs.com/) (get a load of how much GH there is from 1980-84 and of AW and GL). It just makes no sense to me why we can't find more. I'm partial to 1983 because it's one of my two favorite years of the show (the other is 1979, just from reading synopses, hearing audio, and seeing some video). I sometimes wonder if there really is anyone out there that taped from 1979-1981 and 1983 that still has the full episodes.

 

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1 hour ago, ltm1997 said:

That would be such a shame if they reused the tape with the full episodes, but I understand why they would with tapes being as expensive as they were. As far as the difficulty to find episodes of Y&R from the early 80's, I'm as puzzled as you are, especially for the early 80's (1983, specifically). There are plenty of episodes from that year concerning other soaps, especially on this site (https://soapoperas.webs.com/) (get a load of how much GH there is from 1980-84 and of AW and GL). It just makes no sense to me why we can't find more. I'm partial to 1983 because it's one of my two favorite years of the show (the other is 1979, just from reading synopses, hearing audio, and seeing some video). I sometimes wonder if there really is anyone out there that taped from 1979-1981 and 1983 that still has the full episodes.

 

Y&R was hitting #1 sporadically throughout 1979. It was a race between AMC and Y&R to second place for the 79-80 season (GH was always going to be first overall) only once the show went to an hour did the ratings drop and AMC took over, I think Y&R dropped to 5th by Feb 80. I say this as it make me think someone out there was taping the show in 79. Y&R would have had an overall rating in the 9's had it not slipped in the last few months of that season, meaning it had a big audience. Whether those tapes still exist, not sure.

Also there are Peer to Peer sites where you can literally find the entire primetime line up of original broadcasts for all three major networks starting in the 70's and countless hours of 80's MTV exists. Some people are tv archivists and I am certain soaps, which were hitting their zenith in popularity in the late 70's and early 80's must have been preserved by someone out there. 

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2 minutes ago, will81 said:

 

Also there are Peer to Peer sites where you can literally find the entire primetime line up of original broadcasts for all three major networks starting in the 70's and countless hours of 80's MTV exists. Some people are tv archivists and I am certain soaps, which were hitting their zenith in popularity in the late 70's and early 80's must have been preserved by someone out there. 

Wow, that definitely makes me think the soaps are out there. Unfortunately I think a lot of these people are either not interested in soaps or think they are already uploaded somewhere. Whenever I have attempted to interact with people who upload VHS on YT or on the reddit VHS page they always seem to think there is already a catalogue with all the soap episodes available. There was someone who posted commercials only from a 1987 episode (which we later got in German) and I asked them to upload the full episode on archive and they were surprised that it wasn't already out there (and alas never did upload it).

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53 minutes ago, BoldRestless said:

Wow, that definitely makes me think the soaps are out there. Unfortunately I think a lot of these people are either not interested in soaps or think they are already uploaded somewhere. Whenever I have attempted to interact with people who upload VHS on YT or on the reddit VHS page they always seem to think there is already a catalogue with all the soap episodes available. There was someone who posted commercials only from a 1987 episode (which we later got in German) and I asked them to upload the full episode on archive and they were surprised that it wasn't already out there (and alas never did upload it).

True, also we have to accept that many people who were old enough to have a VCR in the 70's and who would have taped a soap might have passed away and their family simply junked the tapes or sold them for re-use to someone who had no interest in soaps. 

I bet there is someone out there. Like the guy in NYC who filmed all the broadway shows from the 50's onwards and has so much rare footage in his personal collection that even archives don't have. 

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On 7/28/2021 at 2:35 PM, asafi said:

Hey

So here in Israel we watch the July 2018 episodes.. and I don't understand what just happened. in a matter of a few episodes, We lost Hillary!!! why???? did the actress wanted to leave the show? was she fired? Why killing a pregnant woman? it seems she and Dr. Nate had this love-hate relationship.. but in a second.. they killed her character. too sad 

I think she left on her own because of contract negotiations. >.<

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4 hours ago, blueberrywaffle said:

I think she left on her own because of contract negotiations. >.<

it was very cruel to kill her like this.. pregnant and engaged to Devon. and I loved her character! I don't get it

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1 hour ago, asafi said:

it was very cruel to kill her like this.. pregnant and engaged to Devon. and I loved her character! I don't get it

According to her agent, MM had not had a raise in any of the five years that she had been on the show at that time. A new contract was requested, with an increase in salary. The terms were not met, so MM left and who could blame her? She had been shouldering one of the most active storylines on the show at that time. And, much like they were known to do with Sharon Case, MM's Hilary was popping up in other storylines to prop up flailing stories. It was a lot of screen time, a lot more hours on set, a lot more lines to memorize. Considering she hadn't ever had a raise up to that point, I don't think it was unreasonable to ask for one.

I don't care what anyone wants to say, killing the character off was retribution, especially seeing that MM didn't win an Emmy for it, nor did anyone else involved in the storyline, if memory serves me correctly. A waste, just to inflate Sony and Mal Young's over-inflated egos, imo.

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3 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Considering she hadn't ever had a raise up to that point, I don't think it was unreasonable to ask for one. I don't care what anyone wants to say, killing the character off was retribution

I don't think it was unreasonable although of course none of us know why and how the talks broke down. There might have been unreasonableness! Who knows? In a show that's not doing well financially - look at the sets - even a reasonable request from her might have been too much. The veterans probably hog a chunk of the performer budget and producers may not have much room to move for most recent arrivals, even a star like MM
But she absolutely was a headliner and they should have tried to hang on to her.
And they definitely shouldn't have killed Hillary off - although "retribution" sounds a step beyond what we know.
Soaps short-sightedly kill off characters all the time.
All of this was a screw-up but there does not need to be anything personal involved.
Who knows?

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21 hours ago, will81 said:

Y&R was hitting #1 sporadically throughout 1979. It was a race between AMC and Y&R to second place for the 79-80 season (GH was always going to be first overall) only once the show went to an hour did the ratings drop and AMC took over, I think Y&R dropped to 5th by Feb 80. I say this as it make me think someone out there was taping the show in 79. Y&R would have had an overall rating in the 9's had it not slipped in the last few months of that season, meaning it had a big audience. Whether those tapes still exist, not sure.

Also there are Peer to Peer sites where you can literally find the entire primetime line up of original broadcasts for all three major networks starting in the 70's and countless hours of 80's MTV exists. Some people are tv archivists and I am certain soaps, which were hitting their zenith in popularity in the late 70's and early 80's must have been preserved by someone out there. 

 

21 hours ago, BoldRestless said:

Wow, that definitely makes me think the soaps are out there. Unfortunately I think a lot of these people are either not interested in soaps or think they are already uploaded somewhere. Whenever I have attempted to interact with people who upload VHS on YT or on the reddit VHS page they always seem to think there is already a catalogue with all the soap episodes available. There was someone who posted commercials only from a 1987 episode (which we later got in German) and I asked them to upload the full episode on archive and they were surprised that it wasn't already out there (and alas never did upload it).

 

20 hours ago, will81 said:

True, also we have to accept that many people who were old enough to have a VCR in the 70's and who would have taped a soap might have passed away and their family simply junked the tapes or sold them for re-use to someone who had no interest in soaps. 

I bet there is someone out there. Like the guy in NYC who filmed all the broadway shows from the 50's onwards and has so much rare footage in his personal collection that even archives don't have. 

Thank you guys so much for all of this info. I definitely think there is Y&R out there. Why the episodes haven't already surfaced, I'll never know. I wouldn't even know where to start searching for them, truly. Maybe I'm typing in the wrong search terms, who knows. I've looked at various trading/selling pages with no luck. You're definitely right about there may be people out there who have passed away and their tapes got lost in the shuffle or sold. Maybe I'm hoping for too much lol. I've posted on a few forums that I'm looking for Y&R from 1979-80 and 1983 and I've come up with no replies on that as well.

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1 hour ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Who knows? In a show that's not doing well financially - look at the sets - even a reasonable request from her might have been too much. The veterans probably hog a chunk of the performer budget and producers may not have much room to move for most recent arrivals, even a star like MM

One of the reasons why I had wished MM had just decided to leave Y&R behind and make a concerted effort to get into prime time. Yes, I understand that the seeming stability of Y&R could have lured her back, but things are more liable to get stale on Y&R than for her to get truly compelling material.

Looking at what happened to Loren Lott, Y&R likely did her a favor, she is already getting far more compelling material than what she could ever have hoped for on Y&R. From what I am reading, MM is not getting such great material this time around, even compared to what she had as Hilary. JMO but it seems like such a waste of a charismatic actress.

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It was funny seeing both Ellen Weston (who played Kay's enemy Suzanne Lynch in the late '70s), and Jeanne Cooper on last night's 1974 rerun of "The Night Stalker", episode "The Devil's Platform" on METV.  No scenes together though.

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Posted (edited)

 

An amazing example of 80's hair - truly defying gravity! Interesting that Eileen didn't opt for nails, but the person who matched the earrings to the dress detail was a genius.  And somehow they looked 20 years older than they did in the 2000s?

Edited by j swift
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Posted (edited)

@BoldRestless

 

'I  always thought Y&R's glamour and emotion would appeal to Italians, as it so clearly connected with the French audience'

According to a 1987 telephone survey made by a famous tv guide, the ranking of favourite soaps was: 

1. Loving 

2. Capitol 

3. Guiding Light 

4. The Young and The Restless 

5. All my children 

6. Search for tomorrow 

7. As the world turns 

8. General Hospital 

Loving and The Young and the Restless were voted as the most romantic, surprising and exciting soaps. 

According to the official tv ratings of 1987, the ranking was: 

1. Capitol (at the time it was broadcasted once a week in primetime with 3 ep in a row on Rai2, a very important channel) 

2. Loving (at 1,30 pm on Rai2) 

3. Guiding Light (at 1,30 pm on Canale 5, the most watched private tv channel) 

4. The Young and the Restless (at 5,15 pm on Rete 4, it was one of the most watched show in that time slot. In 1989 Rai3 launched Another World in the same slot. There was no competition: YR audience was so much bigger. After few months AW was cancelled. The following year it restarded from ep 1 on another channel in a different time slot) 

5. All my children (at 2,30 pm on Rete4) 

6. General Hospital (at 9,30 am on Canale 5)

7. As the world turns (at 3,25 pm on Rete4) 

8. Search for tomorrow (at 16,20 pm on Rete4) 

Here they are the results of a poll made by the same tv guide in late 1987 (YR Us early 1983 episodes).

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vvK_yMNYQuc/YQnCRk1aJkI/AAAAAAAAELw/TtJ145LQLoMHYau_9n-gUPublgjoesKtACLcBGAsYHQ/w945-h600-p-k-no-nu/ss5%5B1%5D.jpg

Most beautiful/good looking male character

1. Paul

2. Kevin Bancroft 

3. Victor 

Most charming male character

1. Victor 

2. Kevin

3. Jack

Most pleasant/friendly male character

1. Danny 

2. Kevin 

3. Paul 

Nicest, good-hearted male character

1. Andy 

2. Danny 

3. Paul 

Meanest male character

1. John

2. Victor 

3. Jack 

Most beautiful/good looking female character

1. Nikki 

2. Ashley 

3. Gina Roma 

Most charming female character 

1. Nikki 

2. Ashley 

3. Patty 

Most pleasant/friendly female character: 

1. Nikki 

2. Gina Roma 

3. Patty 

Nicest, good hearted female character: 

1. Nikki 

2. Gina Roma 

3. Patty 

Meanest female character

1. Kay

2. Ashley 

3. Can't answer

Febbre d'Amore lost 1/3 of its audience in march 1991. The time they decided to do the first unfamous time jump (salto temporale). There was no reason to skip three years and half of the show and the aftermath of crucial storylines, expecially the Nikki Victor Ashley triangle and the Revenge of Jill against the Abbotts. The ratings were very good, the show  won a Telegatto Award in 1990 as favourite soap and was voted again in 1991 (competing with The Bold And The Beautiful and Loving in the category Best soap of the year). All of sudden, there were a new Jill, a new Jack, a new Ashley, 2 Katherines (Kay and Marge) and total different storylines. I think part of the viewers felt disconnected from the show. 

It didn't help that around that time Rete4 focused heavily on South American telenovelas, even starting to coproducing some of them. They were generally cheaper to buy and could easily drew a steady audience. 

In 1992 Rete4 axed All my children and As the world turns. In 1993 General Hospital was cancelled and YR was demoted in the morning. 

The summer 1995 time slot after BB on Canale 5 was not a total failure. As you wrote, it was political. They simply wanted to get ride of a show that costed them too much money, and they did. 

In the 2000s Febbre d'Amore was doing well in the mornings of Rete4, it had a better share than Guiding Light in the afternoon and other daily shows of that boring channel. In 2004 there was an article on the main tv guide: Febbre d'Amore was the Only one soap with strong increasing numbers in the 10-18 yo target. All other soaps (BB, GL and the Italian ones) had lost audience in that target. YR - the only one placed in a marginal placement and the only one with no press to really promote the show- instead prov ed to get it. It was a clear example of its appeal and strenght. Unfortunately Rete4 didn't care. They had the worst tv managers. They knew nothing about the soap. They always tried to diminish its success. The crazy schedules with longer/shorter/minimum lenghts were simply 1) a way to save money when they needed it 2) a way to gradually alienate the affection of viewers' loyalty in order to have an excuse to cancel the show... and they did in 2009

I can understand why the french audience had/has a strong connection with YR. French movies are often based on introspection, tortuous loves, fatal attractions, sentimental and existential reflections, long dialogues, sophisticated and rarefied atmospheres, restlessness, the pursue of happiness. That is what YR was about in the 70s, 80s, 90s and early 00s. 

I can understand why the italian audience had/has a strong connection with BB. Fashion, good lifestyle, deep and powerful feelings of love and lust, open hearted conversations, passionated and sharp people, larger than life characters, crazy twists, very closed families, possessive and strong mother figures like Stephanie and Sally, who always put their families at first, strong bond between people. 

About the openings. I love Nadia's theme. Obviously italian tv managers didn't understand how it was a signature of the show. The original openings with Nadia's Theme were used for a period in the 80s, from 1992 to 1993, in the summer of 1995, from 1998 to 2000, in some reruns in 2011. 

Other times the openings were totally remade and they used pretty popular songs of those periods (What I am gonna do by Linda Wesley, Fallen by Lauren Wood, I don't wanna fight by Tina Turner, The extra mile by Laura Pausini). 

In the 80s generally the openings of daytime soap operas and telenovelas were different from the originals. From 1986 to 2012 Guiding Light openings song was This is the time by Billy Joel. That song in Italy is well known for that reason. 

Guiding Light was popular in the 80s and in the 90s. It started in 1982 in a very good time slot on Canale 5. It was at the best of its writing: the Marland and the Pam Long years. Tv viewers adored Sentieri. In 1988 it was moved on Rete4 in the same time slot. It lost about a million viewers, but was still doing very well. From 1993 to 1998 they broadcasted GL with episodes longer than the original ones. In 1998 Sentieri was only 4 months behind US telecasts. The ratings were pretty solid. 

As ratings started to drop (even if the daily share was still good), they began to use GL as a tv afternoon filler. Every day there was a movie after GL. Movies with different lenghts. So GL had different lenghts every day (from 20 to 50 minutes), based on the starting time of the movie of the day. 

Bad storylines like Reva's time travel and the saga of San Cristobal alienated the viewers. The ratings became lower than ever. In september 2002 they moved the show at 4pm, and ratings slightly improved. Episodes were even shorter (from 10 to 30 minutes, rarely longer). Diehard fans stayed loyal to Sentieri until its cancellation in 2012 (January 2007 US ep), but it was a small audience. In the 2000s Febbre d'Amore had more success than Sentieri. 

A severe spending review after the 2008 Lehman Brothers Crisis was fatal to some tv shows in Italy, like YR and GL

At the peak of its success in Italy, GL had two variety specials in prime time as a tribute to the show. One in 1989 to celebrate 10000 episodes and one in january 1993 to celebrate 40 years on tv. 

Krista Tesreau (Mindy) and Vincent Irizzary (Lujack) with then wife Signy Coleman guest starred on the 1989 special. 

https://it-it.facebook.com/SentieriOnLine.net/videos/194951331836860/

The Telegatto was a very prestigious award given to the winners of the annual Gran Premio Internazionale della tv (our version of The Emmys and People's Choice Awards). Music, tv, movie stars, famous designers, important politicians, scientists always attended the show. In the 1990 edition - when Thomas Scott and Braeden accepted the awards for Febbre d'Amore as Best Soap - the special guests were Sylvester Stallone, Gregory Peck and Glenn Ford. 

Melody had a great Italian pronunciation. Very very good. She was raveshing. Even Eric was good. They were simply adorable and humble. 

Braeden was also invited by Berlusconi to stay as a guest in Villa D'Este (a luxury hotel near Como. The same of the first BB Italian remote in Italy, in 1997). They played at tennis. 

Italy was in Melody's destiny. A decade later, her daughter Alex studied, worked and lived in Italy (Milan, Rome, Tuscany, Sicily). She's been married with an Italian from Rome. 

The Telegatto Award was given to Capitol in 1987, Guiding Light in 1988, Loving in 1989, The Young and The Restless in 1990, The Bold And The Beautiful in 1991, 1994, 1996 and 1997. 

RestlessDuncan is my channel, but my previous channel (closed in 2010) had another name and many more videos. 

I uploaded in the vault a short clip (2002 Flannery Finnegan) in the BB section. 

I don't know if I have something more about Michael after the arrest. Maybe in some vhs, but surely not a full episode. 

@BoldRestless

 

 

Edited by AlexGrimaldi
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