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I didn't realize that it wasn't until 75 the Janice/Leslie burst into song but this news item verifies it.

 

As the Tube Turns: Janice Lynde will be unveiling her vocal talents on the Feb. 24 installment of CBS's "The Young and Restless" singing a love song during a scene in which she marries her fiance, Brad (as played by Tom Hallick). Janice, best known to viewers of the show as the prudish Leslie Brooks, has been working for months with voice coach composer Phil Moore in preparation for her big day .

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Wow, Paul is a terrible man, forcing himself on Christine like that.

I don't believe it. Why would he do something like this?

He always seems very kind in the 80s episodes I have watched.

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10 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Don't think I've seen those Paul and Christine scenes since they aired. Boy, did Paul come off as violent and coarse in those scenes!

 

I rewatched the scenes just now. Back when they first aired, I remember, angrily, thinking how this felt less like character development for Paul and more like a shock-and-awe SL for Y&R, i.e.: Emmy bait. I was also watching GH at the time which was a Guza-penned celebration of angry mobsters and the doormats who love them. I did wonder if all the soaps -- certainly the ABC soaps, but also maybe some of the CBS soaps -- wanted to jump on the GH bandwagon and portray their male characters as tough guys who 'take matters into their own hands' on the regular. As a result, I hated Y&R's SL twist and I wasn't the only one. The outcry was such that Y&R had to swerve, and the show sort of pretended it didn't happen for a long time. I'm not sure but I feel like Paul and Christine went on the backburner/recurring from here on in.

 

Now when I rewatch it? It is still coarse and violent and shocking in every way. However, I feel like it attempts to tackle the issue of 'grey-area rape.' IMO rape is rape, but how many instances do we hear or know about rape occurring in the home, the issue of consent being blurred, the idea that women might question whether it is 'really rape' if it is that nice guy you love? This debate is still being had, and I remember the debate raging on Y&R's official site which published viewers' e-mailed reactions to the show.

 

So yeah... I still find it uncomfortable and the genesis of the story a little suspect, but I also appreciate what Y&R might have been trying to trigger as a conversation. And I give kudos to LLB for playing this unambiguously.

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On 3/15/2021 at 8:52 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

 

 

Crazy to look at that 92 episode and see Nicholas and consider where he's be in less than two years.

To see the Chancellor mansion so full of people! I'd forgotten that Dru lived at the Abbott's. Was that because of Mamie?

So many future relationships between the younger generation that the show never made good on. Kate and Nate should've had some type of friendship. Kate and Lil' Phillip/Chance should have been in and out of each other's lives. But then we got "Chloe" and everything went out the window.

 

 

It's really funny when Nina jokes about Phillip calling Katie for a date, cause he actually did end up dating Chloe and Nina hated that. Meanwhile Abby won't be born for almost another 10 years but now they're all kind of the same age!

3 hours ago, blueberrywaffle said:

Wow, Paul is a terrible man, forcing himself on Christine like that.

I don't believe it. Why would he do something like this?

He always seems very kind in the 80s episodes I have watched.

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It's like the JT becoming an abuser storyline. Does a new writer have the right to have a character do something evil that is totally out of character for them after the character has been established for many years? At least they gave JT a tumor as an excuse. I can't help but still like the Paul from the 80s and 90s. 

26 minutes ago, Cat said:

 

I rewatched the scenes just now. Back when they first aired, I remember, angrily, thinking how this felt less like character development for Paul and more like a shock-and-awe SL for Y&R, i.e.: Emmy bait. I was also watching GH at the time which was a Guza-penned celebration of angry mobsters and the doormats who love them. I did wonder if all the soaps -- certainly the ABC soaps, but also maybe some of the CBS soaps -- wanted to jump on the GH bandwagon and portray their male characters as tough guys who 'take matters into their own hands' on the regular. As a result, I hated Y&R's SL twist and I wasn't the only one. The outcry was such that Y&R had to swerve, and the show sort of pretended it didn't happen for a long time. I'm not sure but I feel like Paul and Christine went on the backburner/recurring from here on in.

 

 

I was thinking it felt like an ABC show too. What I had forgotten is that he's mad at her for dating Michael - another man who tried to rape her (and came really close, like he was literally on top of her and PAUL was the one who saved her). So she is being raped by a man who is upset she wants to be with a scumbag who tried to rape her... that was another horrible story. Christine forgiving Michael was one thing but having her go into practice with him was a huge stretch, and then I thought they'd never go there with them having a romantic relationship.

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6 minutes ago, BoldRestless said:

 

I was thinking it felt like an ABC show too. What I had forgotten is that he's mad at her for dating Michael - another man who tried to rape her (and came really close, like he was literally on top of her and PAUL was the one who saved her). So she is being raped by a man who is upset she wants to be with a scumbag who tried to rape her... that was another horrible story. Christine forgiving Michael was one thing but having her go into practice with him was a huge stretch, and then I thought they'd never go there with them having a romantic relationship.

 

I think the show flirted with a possible Christine & Michael pairing because CLB became a breakout fan fave (I admit, I was a fan too, I thought CLB and his character did great during those later Bell years) and because CLB and LLB had natural chemistry together. But I also agree with you that a romantic relationship was a couple bridges too far. We can talk eventual redemption of a character, or even Christine accepting that Michael might be repentant for hiding in her walls with the intent to rape and kill her. (A big ask). Joining his practice was a wrong move, but I also recognise that soap mores back then were very different, and rape was often used and twisted for story in a way that would not fly today.

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14 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

April 1997 with a week full of the eps  is up in the Vault, boy with the 4/11/97 it certainly is attack of recasts with Sarah Aldrich, Sandra Nelson, and Sherri Shattuck all being heavily featured in the episode. Of the three Nelson is by far and beyond the best of course; Sarah Aldrich is dreadful in her scenes with Ryan, while Ashley is the stuck in the depths of hell with a triangle between her, Kurt, and Hope developing. 
 

Hopefully the rest of the week gets better lol.

You forgot Jennifer Gareis in your recast list.

 

The rest of the spring doesn't get better LOL. First half of 1997 was a lull and Y&R almost lost #1 to Reilly's Days in late June. Things pick up during the second half of 1997 with Malcolm and Olivia wedding, a drunk Nick unknowingly sleeps with Grace, Daniel's paternity reveal leading to Danny and Phyllis divorce and custody battle, Victor and Diane wedding, arrival of Veronica, Heather Tom returns as Victoria and Victoria catches Cole with Ashley, Phyllis and Michael become friends with benefits. I think that covers the main storylines.

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10 minutes ago, kalbir said:

You forgot Jennifer Gareis in your recast list.

 

 

 

She's like Sharon, Nikki, or Daniel.... my mind always sees them as the original actor!

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49 minutes ago, kalbir said:

You forgot Jennifer Gareis in your recast list.

 

The rest of the spring doesn't get better LOL. First half of 1997 was a lull and Y&R almost lost #1 to Reilly's Days in late June. Things pick up during the second half of 1997 with Malcolm and Olivia wedding, a drunk Nick unknowingly sleeps with Grace, Daniel's paternity reveal leading to Danny and Phyllis divorce and custody battle, Victor and Diane wedding, arrival of Veronica, Heather Tom returns as Victoria and Victoria catches Cole with Ashley, Phyllis and Michael become friends with benefits. I think that covers the main storylines.


Thanks @kalbir  I have the 2/21/97 ep here and both Heather Tom and Josie Davis are in that episode. The rapid succession of recasts was pretty jarring at the time. 
 

I remember always seeing the fire at Sasha’s as being the turning point when the show got things moving again after almost

a year of stagnation since Nathan’s death. 

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Hey, I liked Josie Davis in the role! I think the character' motivations were a bit more nuanced than the full on vixen that she would become with Gareis (although I enjoyed Gareis in the role). It's just that Grace's motivations were about ascension into what she saw as a fuller, bigger life, rather than snagging Nick and I appreciated that complexity.  I wish that, rather than chasing Nick had been more of an emphasis when Gareis was in the role.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Cat said:

 

I rewatched the scenes just now. Back when they first aired, I remember, angrily, thinking how this felt less like character development for Paul and more like a shock-and-awe SL for Y&R, i.e.: Emmy bait. I was also watching GH at the time which was a Guza-penned celebration of angry mobsters and the doormats who love them. I did wonder if all the soaps -- certainly the ABC soaps, but also maybe some of the CBS soaps -- wanted to jump on the GH bandwagon and portray their male characters as tough guys who 'take matters into their own hands' on the regular. As a result, I hated Y&R's SL twist and I wasn't the only one. The outcry was such that Y&R had to swerve, and the show sort of pretended it didn't happen for a long time. I'm not sure but I feel like Paul and Christine went on the backburner/recurring from here on in.

 

Now when I rewatch it? It is still coarse and violent and shocking in every way. However, I feel like it attempts to tackle the issue of 'grey-area rape.' IMO rape is rape, but how many instances do we hear or know about rape occurring in the home, the issue of consent being blurred, the idea that women might question whether it is 'really rape' if it is that nice guy you love? This debate is still being had, and I remember the debate raging on Y&R's official site which published viewers' e-mailed reactions to the show.

 

So yeah... I still find it uncomfortable and the genesis of the story a little suspect, but I also appreciate what Y&R might have been trying to trigger as a conversation. And I give kudos to LLB for playing this unambiguously.

 

Years ago, when the scenes originally aired, I remember thinking that Paul couldn't come back from this, in my eyes. In a way, he never fully did, at least when it came to a pairing with Christine. Paired with anybody else, I could mostly forget but I found them to be an unsavory coupling when they were reunited.

Maybe I would need to watch the storyline all over again because much of the motivations for why things happened made no sense to me. Why did Christine decide to date Michael? I know the motivation where the writers were concerned but there is no logic behind why Christine would actually see Michael romantically. Paul was known for sometimes having a temper (the way he would bellow at Lauren, in the wake of her latest scheme backfiring) but having his anger cross into physical and sexual violence seemed beyond the realm of what had become acceptable of that character. Why wouldn't he just tell for Christine to get therapy and walk out, similar to what he'd do with Lauren? Then, somehow we were supposed to accept that Paul came back to himself because...he cried afterwards? Perhaps if they had Michael in that role, it would've been more logical, but that would've been it for the character of Michael Baldwin and like everyone has been saying, CLB had attained popularity on the show by then and when a character, particularly a male character, attains popularity, soaps are more inclined to write to reform them as quickly as they can, even if that means having the town heroine date them, though it may go against everything in both characters' history.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, I think that storyline showed early on that writers struggled with how to write compelling stories for Paul and Christine as a couple, at least, a storyline that didn't involve a criminal case.

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30 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

With the benefit of hindsight, I think that storyline showed early on that writers struggled with how to write compelling stories for Paul and Christine as a couple, at least, a storyline that didn't involve a criminal case.

Another factor was LLB was about to exit for her 2nd extended maternity leave and the writers were struggling to come up with another reason for Christine to go away again.

Poor LLB! Having to film that scene while many months pregnant... I can't imagine Bill Bell writing that scene for his daughter if he was still in charge.

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50 minutes ago, yrfan1983 said:

Another factor was LLB was about to exit for her 2nd extended maternity leave and the writers were struggling to come up with another reason for Christine to go away again.

Poor LLB! Having to film that scene while many months pregnant... I can't imagine Bill Bell writing that scene for his daughter if he was still in charge.

 

HR business??! Yikes Some of the worst storylines on soaps have been written for the sake of a temporary or extended exit. Sadly, maternity leaves have produced some of the egregious. On a medium that ostensibly had a history of catering to women.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, yrfan1983 said:

Another factor was LLB was about to exit for her 2nd extended maternity leave and the writers were struggling to come up with another reason for Christine to go away again.

Poor LLB! Having to film that scene while many months pregnant... I can't imagine Bill Bell writing that scene for his daughter if he was still in charge.

Wasn’t all this on EVERY single cover of CBS SiD in 2002 AND 2003!?

Edited by sheilaforever
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  • It's really funny when Nina jokes about Phillip calling Katie for a date, cause he actually did end up dating Chloe and Nina hated that. Meanwhile Abby won't be born for almost another 10 years but now they're all kind of the same age!

Yes and Victoria was already married when Billy was born.

 

Just about everyone is now in the same age group.

 

I wish they had kept the SORASING more consistent so that there were more delineated age groupings.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/17/2021 at 8:35 PM, Paul Raven said:

I didn't realize that it wasn't until 75 the Janice/Leslie burst into song but this news item verifies it.

 

As the Tube Turns: Janice Lynde will be unveiling her vocal talents on the Feb. 24 installment of CBS's "The Young and Restless" singing a love song during a scene in which she marries her fiance, Brad (as played by Tom Hallick). Janice, best known to viewers of the show as the prudish Leslie Brooks, has been working for months with voice coach composer Phil Moore in preparation for her big day .

How odd. Janice was in the musical Applause prior to Y&R and did other musical theatre. I have spoken to her about this on the FB group. She also sings briefly in the first episode "The Look of Love". She has stated she performed a song almost once a week in the first couple of years, but I guess it was instrumental. Maybe she felt a bit rusty by Feb 75 and wanted to brush up.

On 3/17/2021 at 9:43 PM, blueberrywaffle said:

Wow, Paul is a terrible man, forcing himself on Christine like that.

I don't believe it. Why would he do something like this?

He always seems very kind in the 80s episodes I have watched.

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One of the reasons I dislike Y&R once John F. Smith returned and began taking over. I think this was also the time that Ashley was cancer ridden and Olivia and Brad were having an affair. 

 

Within about six months of this we got Kay and Jill as mother/daughter and Sharon making a move on Victor which was the beginning of the end of her.

 

I totally blame Jack Smith for all of this, he came back as co-headwriter in June 2002 and all this began happening in late 2002 and into 2003. I am sure Kay Alden without Bill Bell (whom I believe was too ill) and Ed Scott (who had left the show, though would return in a supervising capacity later) was being pushed aside. Jack Smith became co-exec producer in 2003 then David Shaugnessy was gone, Bell's Senior Exec title was stripped and he and Smith were sharing the Exec Producer title by Jan 2004. I doubt Bell had much to do with the show by 2002, which explains why Y&R and B&B fell from grace around that time.

Edited by will81
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