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1 minute ago, Paul Raven said:

Dr Jane Lewis - even the name was boring, earlier wasn't there Cynthia, the nurse at the free clinic who had the hots for Snapper?

 

The Sally return should have been epic but with a new Snapper and Chris - no opportunity for flashbacks- it fell flat.

 

Greg should have hooked up with Sally.Imagine the angst for Chris having Sally as a sister in law? And Snapper having to watch Greg father his son? and Mom Foster trying to keep the peace?

 

Lord --- she was a doctor?!  I was thinking she was a nurse.  How sexist of me, lol.   You're right, though, she was a doctor, because she tried ultimately to seduce him in the doctor's quarters at the hospital, I think.   She was spouting lines like, "Your wife -- I have to wonder if she's giving you everything that you need."   Snapper told her to take a hike, and Chris heard him rebuffing the vixen. 

 

I didn't get much out of the Kidney Kid storyline, either, until that very last episode when Chuckie was saying, "We're buds aren't we, Dr. Foster!  When I get big, I want to be a doctor just like you!  You're my hero, Dr. Foster."  I remember sitting there sniffling and whimpering during that entire good-bye.  lol. 

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9 hours ago, Broderick said:

 

Lord --- she was a doctor?!  I was thinking she was a nurse.  How sexist of me, lol.   You're right, though, she was a doctor, because she tried ultimately to seduce him in the doctor's quarters at the hospital, I think.   She was spouting lines like, "Your wife -- I have to wonder if she's giving you everything that you need."   Snapper told her to take a hike, and Chris heard him rebuffing the vixen. 

 

I didn't get much out of the Kidney Kid storyline, either, until that very last episode when Chuckie was saying, "We're buds aren't we, Dr. Foster!  When I get big, I want to be a doctor just like you!  You're my hero, Dr. Foster."  I remember sitting there sniffling and whimpering during that entire good-bye.  lol. 

LOL.....It seemed every woman in Genoa City was after Snapper. I saw the Chuckie goodbye and they played The Carpenters " Bless The Beast And Children". 

 

Now I'm wanting see those crap early 80's storyline episodes to see what a train wreck they truly were. I was a small kid at the time and only saw bits of the show here and there. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, SoapDope said:

 

Now I'm wanting see those crap early 80's storyline episodes to see what a train wreck they truly were. I was a small kid at the time and only saw bits of the show here and there. 

 

 

 

Well, I'd say it was more of a "mixed bag".   Some things were wretched; some things were pretty good.   I guess there were about four different things working AGAINST Bill Bell during that period:

 

(1) he and Alden had difficulties adapting to writing an hour-long show (and Bell had actively resisted expanding the show to an hour for that very reason);

(2) the actors had contracts to appear on a  half-hour show, and they could exercise an option to exit when the show expanded to an hour (which several -- including John McCook, Brenda Dickson, and Beau Kayzer did opt to exercise);

(3) there was a writer's strike during the transition period, which meant scab writers had to excessively drag-out certain plots from Bell's outlines, since no new outlines would be forthcoming until the strike ended;

(4) during a writer's strike, you count on the executive producer to keep things running smoothly, but in Y&R's case John Conboy was creating his own show for CBS (Capitol) and wasn't really studying Y&R

 

The ratings dropped from about 3rd place to about 6th place during the transition period, showing viewers' bewilderment with what they were seeing on their screens.    The show was pretty good in early 1980 when it expanded to an hour, and it was in pretty good shape again by early 1983.   But that three-year transition period --- we used to laugh at my house that a better name for the show would've been "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly", because you definitely got all three of those things in every episode.  lol. 

Edited by Broderick

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23 minutes ago, Broderick said:

 

Well, I'd say it was more of a "mixed bag".   Some things were wretched; some things were pretty good.   I guess there were about four different things working AGAINST Bill Bell during that period:

 

(1) he and Alden had difficulties adapting to writing an hour-long show (and Bell had actively resisted expanding the show to an hour for that very reason);

(2) the actors had contracts to appear on a  half-hour show, and they could exercise an option to exit when the show expanded to an hour (which several -- including John McCook, Brenda Dickson, and Beau Kayzer did opt to exercise);

(3) there was a writer's strike during the transition period, which meant scab writers had to excessively drag-out certain plots from Bell's outlines, since no new outlines would be forthcoming until the strike ended;

(4) during a writer's strike, you count on the executive producer to keep things running smoothly, but in Y&R's case John Conboy was creating his own show for CBS (Capitol) and wasn't really studying Y&R

 

The ratings dropped from about 3rd place to about 6th place during the transition period, showing viewers' bewilderment with what they were seeing on their screens.    The show was pretty good in early 1980 when it expanded to an hour, and it was in pretty good shape again by early 1983.   But that three-year transition period --- we used to laugh at my house that a better name for the show would've been "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly", because you definitely got all three of those things in every episode.  lol. 

LOL......That would have been a good name for it. I remember a lot of the Lorie/Lance/Leslie/Lucas still dragging on, Nikki and Victor hooked up after he and Julia divorced, and the Patty/Jack hook up. I loved Lilibet Stern as Patty Williams and never warmed to Andrea Evans. It's sad that Bell dumped the Brooks/Foster characters, but with constant recasts the audience tired of them. Peggy could have hooked up with Kevin Bancroft after Nikki was done playing with him.

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14 hours ago, Broderick said:

 

Well, I'd say it was more of a "mixed bag".   Some things were wretched; some things were pretty good.   I guess there were about four different things working AGAINST Bill Bell during that period:

 

(1) he and Alden had difficulties adapting to writing an hour-long show (and Bell had actively resisted expanding the show to an hour for that very reason);

(2) the actors had contracts to appear on a  half-hour show, and they could exercise an option to exit when the show expanded to an hour (which several -- including John McCook, Brenda Dickson, and Beau Kayzer did opt to exercise);

(3) there was a writer's strike during the transition period, which meant scab writers had to excessively drag-out certain plots from Bell's outlines, since no new outlines would be forthcoming until the strike ended;

(4) during a writer's strike, you count on the executive producer to keep things running smoothly, but in Y&R's case John Conboy was creating his own show for CBS (Capitol) and wasn't really studying Y&R

 

The ratings dropped from about 3rd place to about 6th place during the transition period, showing viewers' bewilderment with what they were seeing on their screens.    The show was pretty good in early 1980 when it expanded to an hour, and it was in pretty good shape again by early 1983.   But that three-year transition period --- we used to laugh at my house that a better name for the show would've been "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly", because you definitely got all three of those things in every episode.  lol. 

Plus Chris and Snapper were mostly MIA

JLB was pregnant and could barely move about the set and had to go on early maternity leave

Leslie thought she was Priscilla and was out of town for the first half of the year

Vanessa had realised her ultimate goal to split Lorie and Lance, so I don't think she even had much story

Basically the two big stories Bell had in 1979 which got them to #1 multiple times during that year, which was the 4 L's and Jill/Kay were done. He was pretty much starting from scratch and having to intro a bunch of new characters on top of that.

 

Honestly I am amazed Y&R survived it all.

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It was definitely an awkward period, in just about every respect.    If I remember right --- and I may have missed an episode or two, of course --- was that the introduction of the Williams family seemed fairly haphazard and sudden.

 

There was a storyline where Suzanne Lynch pretended to "kidnap" Derek Thurston.   While they were in bed together, they decided it would be feasible to hoodwink Kay Thurston in paying a ransom to have Derek returned to the Chancellor mansion.   Suzanne and Derek would then split the "ransom", and Derek would go home.   Suzanne somehow magically acquired this device that would alter the sound of her voice, and she made all these calls to Kay saying, "Mrs. Chancellor, your husband is still alive.  But we will kill him, unless you place $50,000 in unmarked bills, in a shoebox, in a garbage can in the park."   The voice was distorted, really deep and metallic, so that Kay wouldn't figure out it was Suzanne speaking. 

 

A few months previously, Derek had hired a dayplayer con-man (Douglas Austin) to break into Kay's safe and swap-out an audio tape of Derek and Jill professing their love for each other.   Douglas Austin showed-up at the Chancellor house to extort more money out of Derek for the con-job, when Kay started receiving the phone calls from the "kidnappers".   Douglas assumed that the kidnapping was a sham, and that Jill was behind it.  (He was right that it was a sham, but it was really Suzanne instead of Jill.)   There was suddenly ALL this emphasis on Douglas Austin -- a character we'd only seen ONCE before, a few months earlier.  Douglas, surmising that the "kidnapping" was a hoax, told Kay Chancellor to turn the matter over to the police, despite the "kidnappers" making all these phone calls to Kay advising her, "If the police are notified of the kidnapping, your husband will be killed." 

 

The policeman assigned to handle the case was Inspector Carl Williams.   While Kay gave her statement to the police, the camera kept focusing on Carl Williams.   At first, I thought he was an ordinary dayplayer policeman, and I couldn't understand why the director kept focusing the camera onto him for close-ups, as though he were a main character.   It was just downright bizarre.   Then after Kay gave her statment, the camera stayed on the policeman, and his son Steve popped in (whom I'd never seen before), revealed that he worked for the newspaper as a reporter, and he had this l-o-n-g conversation with his father about whether or not Derek Thurston's kidnapping should be reported in the newspaper.  Then the policeman's wife, Mary Williams, called and wanted the policeman to come home, because she had something "urgent" to discuss with him.   Next thing I knew, we were at the policeman's house, and his wife was telling him that she was pregnant with a change-of-life baby.   (I'm sitting there thinking "Who are these people, and why do they have a new living room set?")  The son Steve popped in to give his two cents on the pregnancy, despite the fact that the audience didn't know him from Adam's housecat, and then Nikki Reed's old boyfriend Paul popped in to issue his opinion, indicating that he was the policeman's son also.  I'd seen Paul before, of course, but had no idea that he was part of a family unit.  As I recall, Paul was in favor of his mother having an abortion.  Then there turned out to be another kid in the house, a little girl named Patty (whom they called "Pipsqueak"), and she had to offer her own advice and suggestions, as well.   Then everyone dispersed, and the three kids sat around and discussed the pregnancy in-depth.   Then the dad and the son Steve had to reconvene and discuss how Paul wasn't even going to school, but had dropped out and was evidently going to be a failure.   And then the pregnant mother had to give us all this backstory about yet another son (Todd) who was in seminary.   I remember being completely bewildered by the whole thing.   But I was young enough (and Catholic enough) to be halfway interested in what these strangers were talking about.   But if I'd been an adult viewer, who wasn't Catholic, I would've probably just turned it off because I wouldn't have known or cared who any of these folks were. 

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27 minutes ago, Broderick said:

It was definitely an awkward period, in just about every respect.    If I remember right --- and I may have missed an episode or two, of course --- was that the introduction of the Williams family seemed fairly haphazard and sudden.

 

There was a storyline where Suzanne Lynch pretended to "kidnap" Derek Thurston.   While they were in bed together, they decided it would be feasible to hoodwink Kay Thurston in paying a ransom to have Derek returned to the Chancellor mansion.   Suzanne and Derek would then split the "ransom", and Derek would go home.   Suzanne somehow magically acquired this device that would alter the sound of her voice, and she made all these calls to Kay saying, "Mrs. Chancellor, your husband is still alive.  But we will kill him, unless you place $50,000 in unmarked bills, in a shoebox, in a garbage can in the park."   The voice was distorted, really deep and metallic, so that Kay wouldn't figure out it was Suzanne speaking. 

 

A few months previously, Derek had hired a dayplayer con-man (Douglas Austin) to break into Kay's safe and swap-out an audio tape of Derek and Jill professing their love for each other.   Douglas Austin showed-up at the Chancellor house to extort more money out of Derek for the con-job, when Kay started receiving the phone calls from the "kidnappers".   Douglas assumed that the kidnapping was a sham, and that Jill was behind it.  (He was right that it was a sham, but it was really Suzanne instead of Jill.)   There was suddenly ALL this emphasis on Douglas Austin -- a character we'd only seen ONCE before, a few months earlier.  Douglas, surmising that the "kidnapping" was a hoax, told Kay Chancellor to turn the matter over to the police, despite the "kidnappers" making all these phone calls to Kay advising her, "If the police are notified of the kidnapping, your husband will be killed." 

 

The policeman assigned to handle the case was Inspector Carl Williams.   While Kay gave her statement to the police, the camera kept focusing on Carl Williams.   At first, I thought he was an ordinary dayplayer policeman, and I couldn't understand why the director kept focusing the camera onto him for close-ups, as though he were a main character.   It was just downright bizarre.   Then after Kay gave her statment, the camera stayed on the policeman, and his son Steve popped in (whom I'd never seen before), revealed that he worked for the newspaper as a reporter, and he had this l-o-n-g conversation with his father about whether or not Derek Thurston's kidnapping should be reported in the newspaper.  Then the policeman's wife, Mary Williams, called and wanted the policeman to come home, because she had something "urgent" to discuss with him.   Next thing I knew, we were at the policeman's house, and his wife was telling him that she was pregnant with a change-of-life baby.   (I'm sitting there thinking "Who are these people, and why do they have a new living room set?")  The son Steve popped in to give his two cents on the pregnancy, despite the fact that the audience didn't know him from Adam's housecat, and then Nikki Reed's old boyfriend Paul popped in to issue his opinion, indicating that he was the policeman's son also.  I'd seen Paul before, of course, but had no idea that he was part of a family unit.  As I recall, Paul was in favor of his mother having an abortion.  Then there turned out to be another kid in the house, a little girl named Patty (whom they called "Pipsqueak"), and she had to offer her own advice and suggestions, as well.   Then everyone dispersed, and the three kids sat around and discussed the pregnancy in-depth.   Then the dad and the son Steve had to reconvene and discuss how Paul wasn't even going to school, but had dropped out and was evidently going to be a failure.   And then the pregnant mother had to give us all this backstory about yet another son (Todd) who was in seminary.   I remember being completely bewildered by the whole thing.   But I was young enough (and Catholic enough) to be halfway interested in what these strangers were talking about.   But if I'd been an adult viewer, who wasn't Catholic, I would've probably just turned it off because I wouldn't have known or cared who any of these folks were. 

Very interesting...but the Williams weren’t actually introduced all at once were they? I know we met Paul, but I always thought After Carl came in we didn’t meet rest of the family till Spring.

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1 hour ago, Broderick said:

It was definitely an awkward period, in just about every respect.    If I remember right --- and I may have missed an episode or two, of course --- was that the introduction of the Williams family seemed fairly haphazard and sudden.

 

There was a storyline where Suzanne Lynch pretended to "kidnap" Derek Thurston.   While they were in bed together, they decided it would be feasible to hoodwink Kay Thurston in paying a ransom to have Derek returned to the Chancellor mansion.   Suzanne and Derek would then split the "ransom", and Derek would go home.   Suzanne somehow magically acquired this device that would alter the sound of her voice, and she made all these calls to Kay saying, "Mrs. Chancellor, your husband is still alive.  But we will kill him, unless you place $50,000 in unmarked bills, in a shoebox, in a garbage can in the park."   The voice was distorted, really deep and metallic, so that Kay wouldn't figure out it was Suzanne speaking. 

 

A few months previously, Derek had hired a dayplayer con-man (Douglas Austin) to break into Kay's safe and swap-out an audio tape of Derek and Jill professing their love for each other.   Douglas Austin showed-up at the Chancellor house to extort more money out of Derek for the con-job, when Kay started receiving the phone calls from the "kidnappers".   Douglas assumed that the kidnapping was a sham, and that Jill was behind it.  (He was right that it was a sham, but it was really Suzanne instead of Jill.)   There was suddenly ALL this emphasis on Douglas Austin -- a character we'd only seen ONCE before, a few months earlier.  Douglas, surmising that the "kidnapping" was a hoax, told Kay Chancellor to turn the matter over to the police, despite the "kidnappers" making all these phone calls to Kay advising her, "If the police are notified of the kidnapping, your husband will be killed." 

 

The policeman assigned to handle the case was Inspector Carl Williams.   While Kay gave her statement to the police, the camera kept focusing on Carl Williams.   At first, I thought he was an ordinary dayplayer policeman, and I couldn't understand why the director kept focusing the camera onto him for close-ups, as though he were a main character.   It was just downright bizarre.   Then after Kay gave her statment, the camera stayed on the policeman, and his son Steve popped in (whom I'd never seen before), revealed that he worked for the newspaper as a reporter, and he had this l-o-n-g conversation with his father about whether or not Derek Thurston's kidnapping should be reported in the newspaper.  Then the policeman's wife, Mary Williams, called and wanted the policeman to come home, because she had something "urgent" to discuss with him.   Next thing I knew, we were at the policeman's house, and his wife was telling him that she was pregnant with a change-of-life baby.   (I'm sitting there thinking "Who are these people, and why do they have a new living room set?")  The son Steve popped in to give his two cents on the pregnancy, despite the fact that the audience didn't know him from Adam's housecat, and then Nikki Reed's old boyfriend Paul popped in to issue his opinion, indicating that he was the policeman's son also.  I'd seen Paul before, of course, but had no idea that he was part of a family unit.  As I recall, Paul was in favor of his mother having an abortion.  Then there turned out to be another kid in the house, a little girl named Patty (whom they called "Pipsqueak"), and she had to offer her own advice and suggestions, as well.   Then everyone dispersed, and the three kids sat around and discussed the pregnancy in-depth.   Then the dad and the son Steve had to reconvene and discuss how Paul wasn't even going to school, but had dropped out and was evidently going to be a failure.   And then the pregnant mother had to give us all this backstory about yet another son (Todd) who was in seminary.   I remember being completely bewildered by the whole thing.   But I was young enough (and Catholic enough) to be halfway interested in what these strangers were talking about.   But if I'd been an adult viewer, who wasn't Catholic, I would've probably just turned it off because I wouldn't have known or cared who any of these folks were. 

Thanks for all the details. Was this the first week of the 1980 1 hour expansion ?

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Pretty sure it was the first week, or possibly as late as the second week, of the expansion.   Obviously we'd been seeing Paul on/off in a very minor role since 1978, but out of the clear blue sky he was anchoring a family.   And maybe Carl had previously appeared as a policeman for a few days, but I hadn't paid him any attention at all, until the "Derek gets kidnapped" storyline, when Carl started sprouting a wife and a houseful of kids that, to my surprise, included Paul.  (Again, I may have missed an episode or two.)   And then Steve Williams was suddenly branching out into his own storylines and giving pep talks to Jill (who was played by Bond Gideon), and you're looking at Bond Gideon and thinking, "Is that girl supposed to be Jill?"  lol.  The little girl Patty (played by Tammy Taylor?) didn't have much of a storyline until several months later when the cute Lilibet Stern took over, and by then I was accustomed to seeing the entire family on the show.         

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1 hour ago, Broderick said:

Pretty sure it was the first week, or possibly as late as the second week, of the expansion.   Obviously we'd been seeing Paul on/off in a very minor role since 1978, but out of the clear blue sky he was anchoring a family.   And maybe Carl had previously appeared as a policeman for a few days, but I hadn't paid him any attention at all, until the "Derek gets kidnapped" storyline, when Carl started sprouting a wife and a houseful of kids that, to my surprise, included Paul.  (Again, I may have missed an episode or two.)   And then Steve Williams was suddenly branching out into his own storylines and giving pep talks to Jill (who was played by Bond Gideon), and you're looking at Bond Gideon and thinking, "Is that girl supposed to be Jill?"  lol.  The little girl Patty (played by Tammy Taylor?) didn't have much of a storyline until several months later when the cute Lilibet Stern took over, and by then I was accustomed to seeing the entire family on the show.         

Thanks for the memories. I remember Lilibet Stern fondly. I was sad when she left the show and was replaced by Andrea Evans (who was a bust). Bond Gideon's husband posted a couple of 1980 episodes featuring her , Paul & Patty (Tammy Taylor), Leslie, Jonas, Greg, Nikki, Casey, Lorie, Lucas, and Victor.  

 

Tammy Taylor posted on the one video of her thanking Bond's husband for finding that. Tammy Taylor played Hope on Days from 1980-81.

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4 hours ago, Broderick said:

Pretty sure it was the first week, or possibly as late as the second week, of the expansion.   Obviously we'd been seeing Paul on/off in a very minor role since 1978, but out of the clear blue sky he was anchoring a family.   And maybe Carl had previously appeared as a policeman for a few days, but I hadn't paid him any attention at all, until the "Derek gets kidnapped" storyline, when Carl started sprouting a wife and a houseful of kids that, to my surprise, included Paul.  (Again, I may have missed an episode or two.)   And then Steve Williams was suddenly branching out into his own storylines and giving pep talks to Jill (who was played by Bond Gideon), and you're looking at Bond Gideon and thinking, "Is that girl supposed to be Jill?"  lol.  The little girl Patty (played by Tammy Taylor?) didn't have much of a storyline until several months later when the cute Lilibet Stern took over, and by then I was accustomed to seeing the entire family on the show.         

I only know from weekly synopsis, but it seems Carl rocked up in the Nikki/Walter Addison story in the first week of January 1980, and Steve was about the same time. Then a few weeks later in March Jon-Michael Reed's synopsis specifically states Carl and Steve are Paul's family and the week after that Mary is fretting about being pregnant and the week after that Patty is first mentioned. May have played out differently on screen. Though it seems Carl and Steve were not immediately connected to Paul and then suddenly they were and before you know it in comes Mary and Patty, insta family.

 

Carl and Steve being Paul's family isn't mentioned until after the kidnapping story is pretty much done, so yeah it must have been odd to have Carl being so prominently featured on camera during that story and Steve as well, then seeing Carl's wife when he seemed like a dayplayer.

 

It is so great to have your recollections though. You have memories of things that are never mentioned in synopsis from the time. Thanks for sharing

3 hours ago, SoapDope said:

Thanks for the memories. I remember Lilibet Stern fondly. I was sad when she left the show and was replaced by Andrea Evans (who was a bust). Bond Gideon's husband posted a couple of 1980 episodes featuring her , Paul & Patty (Tammy Taylor), Leslie, Jonas, Greg, Nikki, Casey, Lorie, Lucas, and Victor.  

 

Tammy Taylor posted on the one video of her thanking Bond's husband for finding that. Tammy Taylor played Hope on Days from 1980-81.

I liked Tammy Taylor, but she seemed like an actual 16 year old girl as opposed to Lilibet who played 16/17 but seemed a little more mature. I can't imagine Tammy playing the Jack/Patty story.

Edited by will81

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Looking over those synopses, I wondered if Bill Bell considered having Stuart Brooks know Carl Williams and using that as a hook for Stu hiring Steve. It would have been quite feasible for Stu to be acquainted with Carl through his work. Liz could have also known Mary through the church (I believe that Liz was a church goer) 

Although having two similar women as friends?

And Steve could have been school friend of Snapper/Greg.

So straight away, using any of those connections could have eased the Williams into the show.

It's interesting that Bell chose to introduce  a working class family in the new format. Other shows were going with wealthier families eg Days -the Chandlers, AMC-the Cortlandts, AW-the Holloways.OLTL - the Buchanans etc

Also at that time Vanessa became interested in Stu, something that was quickly dropped.

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11 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

I wondered if Bill Bell considered having Stuart Brooks know Carl Williams and using that as a hook for Stu hiring Steve. It would have been quite feasible for Stu to be acquainted with Carl through his work. Liz could have also known Mary through the church (I believe that Liz was a church goer) 

Although having two similar women as friends?

And Steve could have been school friend of Snapper/Greg.

So straight away, using any of those connections could have eased the Williams into the show.

It's interesting that Bell chose to introduce  a working class family in the new format. Other shows were going with wealthier families eg Days -the Chandlers, AMC-the Cortlandts, AW-the Holloways.OLTL - the Buchanans etc

Also at that time Vanessa became interested in Stu, something that was quickly dropped.

 

Regarding Vanessa and Stuart, that really did kinda dissipate without going anywhere at all.   My recollection is that Vanessa just sorta sat around and said (to herself) that she was lonely, and she had a lot in common with Stuart Brooks, since both of her sons were involved with two of his daughters.   Seems like she may have even flirted with Stuart (in her own rather grotesque manner) a couple of times.   But when she found out that he was courting Liz Foster, Vanessa just threw in the towel immediately and never gave Stuart Brooks a second thought.  It seemed completely out-of-character for Mrs. Prentiss to EVER give up on anything so easily, lol.  We'd seen her hounding, pestering, and worrying the hell out of Lorie Brooks for YEARS relentlessly, and that kinda indicated that Mrs. Prentiss LOVED a battle.   She always seemed battle-ready.  But when it came to Stuart Brooks, she just inexplicably gave up.  I was actually looking forward to seeing poor, sweet, hardworking Elizabeth Foster having to deal with a devious, conniving old wench like Vanessa.   I think it could've made an interesting contrast.  (In the back of my mind, I kinda wondered if perhaps it eventually occurred to Bill Bell that if he pursued having Vanessa and Liz become "romantic adversaries", it might potentially result in a contentious relationship among Snapper, Greg, and Jill, verus the two Prentiss boys.  And Bell always seemed dead-set on having the Foster kids and the Prentiss kids operate in completely separate orbits.) 

 

Regarding Carl and Steve Williams, I don't pretend to have a perfect memory about their sudden appearance on the show.   It's very likely that Carl Williams did indeed first appear in the investigation of Nikki and Walter Addison in January of 1980.  If he did, he played an awfully MINOR role, because I just thought he was Random Cop #1, or whatever.   The main "police focus" during that storyline, of course, was on the suspect, the boy named Tony Baker, who'd stolen the expensive watch off Walter Addison's body, and who was unjustly jailed for killing Mr. Addison.   Greg Foster was appointed public defender for the Tony Baker kid, and Tony Baker's only real defense was that he'd seen a blonde girl (Nikki) in the alley when Rose DeVille and Vince Holliday dumped Walter Addison's corpse out of the car.  Tony Baker felt the mysterious blonde girl (Nikki) could testify that Addison was already dead when Tony found him.  Tony Baker provided Greg with a police sketch of the blonde girl, based on Tony's description of her.  Greg walked around studying over the sketch all the time, too stupid to realize the girl was his own wife.  (That storyline made Wings Hauser look so dense and incompetent, that it was difficult to focus any attention at all on the policeman --- probably Carl Williams --- who was interrogating Tony Baker and relaying information about the case to Greg.)  Steve Williams might've popped-up in that storyline as well, as Random Newspaper Reporter #1, but again his appearance, if it did indeed occur, would've been completely overshadowed by Greg's bewildering inability to recognize Nikki in the police sketch, which was basically the SAME Sandy Dvore sketch of Nikki that appeared in each weekday's closing credits, lol.

 

I just didn't become cognizant of Carl and Steve AT ALL until the following month, February of 1980, when they were sticking their noses into Derek Thurston's faux-kidnapping, in a somewhat overbearing manner (given their small roles in the proceedings).   Even then, I wasn't 100% sure that they were father and son, and I didn't comprehend that they were in any shape, form, or fashion related to that blond-haired sometimes-boyfriend of Nikki's who went around slouching in doorways and pouting (Paul).

 

In hindsight, what Bill Bell probably should've done, in early 1980, was introduce Steve Williams first, in conjunction with Stuart Brooks, vis-avis the newspaper.   It would've been much smoother and more character-driven, in my opinion.  There was a studio set already established that served as Stuart's office as the Chronicle --- we'd seen Stuart at his desk on several different occasions.   Bell should've set-up a scene or two where Stuart got a phone call (or a visit) at work from Lorie or Chris or whoever, and Stuart having to explain, "I'll be with you in a minute, dear.  I'm in a meeting with my new reporter -- Steve Williams."    Then Stuart could've gone into a spiel with Lorie or Chris or whoever that Steve was his most promising new hire in quite a while, has great potential, very smart, very conscientious, might make a good match for young Peggy, etc.   THIS would've probably gotten our attention better --- that Stuart Brooks thought highly of Steve and was thinking of introducing the boy to Peggy.  We'd have subconsciously started expecting Steve to play a bigger role in the storyline.  The next step could've been for Stuart to press Steve a little bit about his family life:  ("Carl Williams is your father?! -- why, yes, yes, I've known of Carl Williams for years.  Works for the police department, has provided me with information on various news stories for many years.  A fine man!  I've always thought very highly of your father, Steve.   As a matter of fact, I was just thinking of calling your father this afternoon to ask if there are any new developments in this Walter Addison murder.")   And then in another scene, Steve could've confided in Stuart that he was concerned about his good-for-nothing college drop-out brother Paul, "whom Mom, Dad and I are worried will never amount to much, if he doesn't turn his life around and get back on the right track."  The audience would've IMMEDIATELY made the connection that the "good-for-nothing brother named Paul" who "didn't amount to much" was that slouching, blond, long-haired, dead-end boyfriend of Nikki's we'd been seeing sporadically for the past couple of years, and who'd been featured so prominently in the VD storyline.   It just seems that establishing a mentor/protege relationship between Stuart Brooks and Steve Williams at work, and then having Stuart introduce the boy to Peggy, could've made the introduction of the entire Williams family seem far more smoother and natural than what we actually ended up getting on-screen.   Bell could've even set-up a get-to-know-each-other date between Steve and Peggy at the Allegro, and had Paul come slouching into the restaurant, asking Steve for a loan, to Steve's embarrassment and chagrin.  ("I'm so sorry, Peggy.   Trust me, he's NOTHING like the rest of my family.  My brother Todd is in seminary; my dad works hard at the police station; my mother's very involved with her church work.  We don't understand what went wrong with Paul.  He just doesn't have any ambition at all.   I'm afraid he's setting a terrible example for our younger sister.")  Just appears in hindsight that it could've all been handled very seamlessly, instead of the strange, disjointed introduction of the family that we really ended up getting on-screen.                              

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@Broderick You actually have a pretty amazing memory. You are giving detail that can't be found anywhere, other than through having seen the show, and actually it does seem Carl was like a dayplayer even though he was there from Jan 1980. He really is barely mentioned in synopsis, and the Williams family connections don't seem to have been made until March 1980. So yeah your memory seems pretty spot on.

 

I love your ideas about introducing the Wiliams family, sounds far smoother and much more interesting. It does seem Bell was in panic mode a bit as he hated having to go to an hour, I believe the show was supposed to expand in 1979 and was delayed, maybe even a couple times. So I wonder if he was just drowning a bit initially and making odd decisions as a result. 1980 sounds like it started out strong and then fell into a big mess.

 

Bell and co. were basically creating a new show, but on air in front of an audience.

 

In terms of Stuart and Vanessa, was there any chemistry between them? I honestly can't see K.T Stevens and Robert Colbert together. I also wonder if Bell realised Liz was no match for Vanessa. I can't imagine Liz being able to deal with Vanessa's level of manipulation, it may have been too easy for Van to take Stuart away.

 

I also notice the Jill/Steve pairing seemed like it was being set up for a triangle with Peggy, but Jill lost interest in him once she started working at Jabot. So there never seemed to be much of a rivalry

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