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Nikki was on some years before meeting Victor.

Then a few years later, she met Jack, who had been on the show 4 years at that stage.

That lead to Victor meeting Jack and Ashley.

So several years past before those characters interacted.

Paul was involved with Nikki first and met Victor way before Nikki did.

 

Remember when Lauren decided to approach Mrs Chancellor to cough up money for a music video?

Edited by Paul Raven

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16 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I liked that style of storytelling...some characters organically wouldn't know one another.  Victor encouraged Nina to pursue Ryan so he and Victoria didnt interact...I recall that.  Nikki and Nina had one scene in the late 90s after Victoria's baby Eve died where Nina expressed sympathy..and Nikki eyed nina leaving and asked Victoria if Nina was causing trouble..and Victoria said not at all.  And I do recall before Nina left in early 2000...her and Sharon interacted a lot since their kids went to Walnut Grove..and Nina was a supportive big sister to both Mackenzie and Megan Dennison.  Had nina stayed, she probably would have interacted with others.  She also was tested with Ashley's step brother Rafael and advised Cole on how to handle the Victoria/Ashley situation.

 

Agnes Nixon did that to a certain extent on AMC...but not as blatant as Bill Bell did.

 

Marland overdid the character interactions..some of which didnt make sense...and I did notice got better with that in the later years of his tenure in ATWT.

Agreed, I liked the separation style it made the show unique.

 

Speaking of Marland, I guess the over interaction why I find it harder to follow ATWT's history. Moreover because ATWT hardly has single storyline playlists on youtube, mostly full episodes. 

 

One thing I get frustrated about with Y&R is that they just drop characters off the canvas and hardly acknowledge their history. When was the last time we got a Veronica Landers, Rex Sterling Tricia Dennison, or Ryan Mc Neil reference? It took years for them to give a flashback clip for Nikki's anniversary. Meanwhile GH seems to drop flashback clips and acknowledge character's past history at the drop of a hat. They even gave a 50 hour classic episode marathon on SoapNet for their anniversary. It's good to live in the present but wow!

 

 

Edited by ironlion

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Separation in stories does work. It worked very well for Y&R. I agree not "everyone" needs to interact. But I also like shows that have tight nit communities that interact and react to each other. One of the things I love about Y&R is that the families ARE in their bubbles (when on other shows we often BEG for family and friends to interact). But it also helps to have characters interact with others, at least in their age range.

 

Sadly, any bubbles now are budget related, at least on DAYS ;) 

36 minutes ago, ironlion said:

Agreed, I liked the separation style it made the show unique.

 

Speaking of Marland, I guess the over interaction why I find it harder to follow ATWT's history. Moreover because ATWT hardly has single storyline playlists on youtube, mostly full episodes. 

 

One thing I get frustrated about with Y&R is that they just drop characters off the canvas and hardly acknowledge their history. When was the last time we got a Veronica Landers, Rex Sterling Tricia Dennison, or Ryan Mc Neil reference? It took years for them to give a flashback clip for Nikki's anniversary. Meanwhile GH seems to drop flashback clips and acknowledge character's past history at the drop of a hat. They even gave a 50 hour classic episode marathon on SoapNet for their anniversary. It's good to live in the present but wow!

 

 

 

I've never understood not referring to history as much as you can. I even think at certain times, on other shows, flashbacks would really help drive a story point home. I guess some of it stems from the "fear" of fans wanting certain characters back because the old trope was that if someone was referred to a lot suddenly it meant they were coming back. IDK. It's weird how they often ignore so many things. Not really specific to Y&R either, all soaps are guilty of this. And I've always been amused how their life basically stops and they have no idea what's been going on in the soap town they return to. Especially in the day and age of social media and cellphones. I also always thought when someone exited, while it was a big deal and treated as such, people acted as if they would never communicate or see them again. LOL

Edited by KMan101

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8 hours ago, Legacy said:

Interesting I only read about them meeting at Jack and Patty's wedding and it seemed like there was a hint that they might be tested for a pair but I've never heard of Paul/Ashley interacting like that

 

Around that time (1982-83), Ashley was paired with her partner in the lab Brian Forbes (played by Jay Kerr). I have yet to see any scenes/clips of that character. I was a small kid then and I have no memories of him what so ever. I have seen photos, but that's about it. Jay Kerr who played the role trashed his time on it. He said soaps were the bottom of the barrel and that actors would rather do anything else than do soaps. He also said he felt miscast and can't understand why people still remember him from it. He also said his character went to make a phone call and never came back and no one cared. I noticed the Y&R credit has been deleted from his imdb page. It's funny that he trashed soaps when he hasn't acted in years. So how did that work out for him ?

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13 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

 

Around that time (1982-83), Ashley was paired with her partner in the lab Brian Forbes (played by Jay Kerr). I have yet to see any scenes/clips of that character. I was a small kid then and I have no memories of him what so ever. I have seen photos, but that's about it. Jay Kerr who played the role trashed his time on it. He said soaps were the bottom of the barrel and that actors would rather do anything else than do soaps. He also said he felt miscast and can't understand why people still remember him from it. He also said his character went to make a phone call and never came back and no one cared. I noticed the Y&R credit has been deleted from his imdb page. It's funny that he trashed soaps when he hasn't acted in years. So how did that work out for him ?

It seems Ashley was just tossed from one guy to the next. While she was with Brian she met Eric and while with Eric she met Marc and dated both, and it seems Bell was still considering her for Paul. Then she met Victor, though I think she dated his brother Matt first, as she was not yet ready to have an affair with Victor at that point. Victor and Ashley didn't actually hook up until late 1985 when they went on a trip to Corsica. 

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56 minutes ago, will81 said:

It seems Ashley was just tossed from one guy to the next. While she was with Brian she met Eric and while with Eric she met Marc and dated both, and it seems Bell was still considering her for Paul. Then she met Victor, though I think she dated his brother Matt first, as she was not yet ready to have an affair with Victor at that point. Victor and Ashley didn't actually hook up until late 1985 when they went on a trip to Corsica. 

Yes. Ashley was tossed around till she was put with Victor. Elieen said she also loved working with Rod Arrants who played her first husband Dr. Steven Lassiter. 

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It is interesting that Bell chose to introduce the recast the way he did, with Steven's death. I am almost sure Brenda's first scene was her in shadow staring out a window in her room, Traci comes in to check on her, but you never really see her face.

 

I do wonder why he killed off Steven. Although honestly I can't remember Ashley having much to do in the last year Eileen was on the show and barely remember her being married to Steven. Mostly she seemed to just have scenes with Jack telling him to butt out of Traci and Brad's marriage.

 

 

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2 hours ago, KMan101 said:

Separation in stories does work. It worked very well for Y&R. I agree not "everyone" needs to interact. But I also like shows that have tight nit communities that interact and react to each other. One of the things I love about Y&R is that the families ARE in their bubbles (when on other shows we often BEG for family and friends to interact). But it also helps to have characters interact with others, at least in their age range.

 

 

I've never understood not referring to history as much as you can. I even think at certain times, on other shows, flashbacks would really help drive a story point home. I guess some of it stems from the "fear" of fans wanting certain characters back because the old trope was that if someone was referred to a lot suddenly it meant they were coming back. IDK. It's weird how they often ignore so many things. Not really specific to Y&R either, all soaps are guilty of this. And I've always been amused how their life basically stops and they have no idea what's been going on in the soap town they return to. Especially in the day and age of social media and cellphones. I also always thought when someone exited, while it was a big deal and treated as such, people acted as if they would never communicate or see them again. LOL

 

I loved when everyone was in everyone else's business in Oakdale, it really seemed to personify the fact that they lived in a smaller town before someone decided to expand it to a small city.  I enjoyed it when other characters would be in their kitchens and living rooms discussing an event that happened to another character. I looked forward to those interactions and see the speed of how news used to travel.  One of the sadder elements on ATWT in the last 15 years or so was how isolated characters had become, even those who had once been close.  Some of these characters no longer seemed to acknowledge events that happened in the lives of others.  It was almost as if they were hermetically sealed off from others.

 

In terms of why today's soaps don't seem to want to employ flashbacks or even much acknowledgement of previous storylines and characters from the past.  One reason is ego.  The ego of the current executive and writing regimes don't want to remind viewers of times where their show was likely of higher, more entertaining quality. 

Another reason, that just came to mind is the fact that some soaps don't have a ridiculous amount of recasts, while others do.  Sadly, the last decade or so of ATWT, they employed a farcical number of recasts, particularly for the characters of Craig, Casey and Adam.  ATWT has always been somewhat disposed to recasts (Lisa, Tom, Margo, Betsy, Hal) which could complicate the use of flashbacks, particularly for newer viewers who weren't there when the changes occurred but in the very late 90s and the 2000s, in particular, I got the notion that TPTB just didn't want the current audience see or know too much about the fact that the quality of the show from previous eras was so much better.

When it came to most of P&G soaps, ego definitely ruled over most everything else (except budget).

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I have to say I preferred Brenda in the role of Ashley over Eileen... and I wished the powers that be had lured Brenda back to play the part of Ashley.. since some fans remember her fondly (in fact, I shared a few youtube clips of Brenda as Ashley with viewers who didn't know of her.. and they actually said they would have liked her better if they saw her in the role originally)... and I bet Brenda wouldn't be as expensive as Eileen is.   

 

And I think the reason I liked Nixon was because she provided a good balance between character interaction and story bubbles... and the show used the restaurants and parties/balls to great effect to mix up the character interactions.  Bell would have a ball.. and the characters still were situated in their own story bubble (which makes sense because people usually will stay interacting with people they know well.. and maybe do a polite greeting to those they might not know as well)... and I'm sorry.. I didn't like ATWT because everyone was in one another's business even when it didn't make sense.

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Hoping to see some more 1992/1993 episodes posted soon!

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8 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I have to say I preferred Brenda in the role of Ashley over Eileen... and I wished the powers that be had lured Brenda back to play the part of Ashley.. since some fans remember her fondly (in fact, I shared a few youtube clips of Brenda as Ashley with viewers who didn't know of her.. and they actually said they would have liked her better if they saw her in the role originally)... and I bet Brenda wouldn't be as expensive as Eileen is.   

 

And I think the reason I liked Nixon was because she provided a good balance between character interaction and story bubbles... and the show used the restaurants and parties/balls to great effect to mix up the character interactions.  Bell would have a ball.. and the characters still were situated in their own story bubble (which makes sense because people usually will stay interacting with people they know well.. and maybe do a polite greeting to those they might not know as well)... and I'm sorry.. I didn't like ATWT because everyone was in one another's business even when it didn't make sense.

I could go either way. They both bring something to the character. It is odd though watching Eileen's initial return to Y&R in 1999. She seems to still be channeling Kristen DiMera to a certain degree. 

 

I probably buy Brenda's Ashley being more submissive to Victor than Eileen's. Even though both had strength and vulnerability. They just played the role differently, yet Ashley was still Ashley, though Brenda's Ash was definitely more of a heroine type. I can't see Brenda's Ashley having an affair with a married man.

 

Back when the writers knew how to write her character it could work with either of them. I think that shows how good Bell and his team were, because I think writers today don't know how to write a character like Ashley and make her interesting. They just fall into archetypes and tropes with no nuance. 

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I've always found it odd that Ashley and Victor were not each other's endgame. 

 

When they first coupled in the 80s there was a lot of dialogue about how their love differed from his relationship with Nikki because Ashley was more of a partner.  Victor always made a point of respecting Ashley's intelligence and education.  Ashley's relationships from Blade to Steven Lassiter seemed to exist only as an inhibitor to a relationship with Victor.  It created opportunities for Victor to save Ashley and then for them to reunite.  

 

Nikki was often portrayed as immature and self-centered, especially during her first period of drug addiction after her horse accident, and that seemed to justify Victor's attraction to Ashley.  

 

I guess over time (and various writers)  Nikki has developed more respect from Victor, but I really always thought that he would end up with Ashley; until she left. 

Edited by j swift

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I see things differently. Ashley was a completely different person with Victor. She was actually more girlish and more like Nikki was when she first met Victor, intelligent and experienced sure, but she would become more submissive with him. Ashley was never the type to have an affair with a married man, and she resisted for months before giving in. He had a hold on her.

 

Ashley could never really stand up for herself with Victor. Always forgave him. The only time I remember her really ripping through him was around 2000, when he was double crossing them to keep control of Jabot. Yes she was stoic when the divorce happened in 1992, but she still wasn't brutal enough with him and again eventually forgave him. 

 

Nikki was more willing to serve Victor and call him out on his behaviour, she became more of an equal. Ashley couldn't even bring herself to tell Victor she was marrying Steven, she knew if she saw him he would convince her to marry him instead. She knows he is her weakness, it was actually never a very healthy relationship. She even had an abortion partly so she wouldn't hurt Victor and Nikki. I think that changed the course of their relationship, she even took most of the blame for it when they met on the ranch a few months later, but I felt that was the end of whatever great love affair they had. The marriage a few years later, was two people lonely and confused leaning on each other, I think it makes sense the marriage didn't last.

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2 minutes ago, will81 said:

I see things differently. Ashley was a completely different person with Victor. She was actually more girlish and more like Nikki was when she first met Victor, intelligent and experienced sure, but she would become more submissive with him. Ashley was never the type to have an affair with a married man, and she resisted for months before giving in. He had a hold on her.

 

Ashley could never really stand up for herself with Victor. Always forgave him. The only time I remember her really ripping through him was around 2000, when he was double crossing them to keep control of Jabot. Yes she was stoic when the divorce happened in 1992, but she still wasn't brutal enough with him and again eventually forgave him. 

 

Nikki was more willing to serve Victor and call him out on his behaviour, she became more of an equal. Ashley couldn't even bring herself to tell Victor she was marrying Steven, she knew if she saw him he would convince her to marry him instead. She knows he is her weakness, it was actually never a very healthy relationship. She even had an abortion partly so she wouldn't hurt Victor and Nikki. I think that changed the course of their relationship, she even took most of the blame for it when they met on the ranch a few months later, but I felt that was the end of whatever great love affair they had. The marriage a few years later, was two people lonely and confused leaning on each other, I think it makes sense the marriage didn't last.

I, too, think it would have been more interesting if Victor and Ashley were the end game. He's the only one she's had a lot of chemistry with, and it would have added an element to the Victor and Jack ongoing feud. Plus, Niki could have been the spurned ex-wife, mother of Victor's children, who always held a grudge...leaving her and Ashley as permanent rivals (such as Katherine and Jill).

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