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1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

IMO the problem is that Days is still trying to write the show in the same style as the 80's and 90's but without the time/budget to do so.

 

Yup - while it sucks that soaps, DAYS in particular, has no budget these days, they really need to stop trying to pull off plots that takes any budget. Hell, they can't even afford to hire extras to make Jack's ridiculous mayoral rallies believable at this point, so why even trying (not saying that they should've even attempted that particular storyline but still...).

 

Soaps did after all originate from radio to begin with and even today some of those are still running.

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9 hours ago, KMan101 said:

 

She's been off on-screen for a while, I see it too. She's very much checked out. I often feel like she plays Hope "lost" (since losing Bo) but of course it doesn't get written that way but that's how I'm choosing to look at it, lol. I think she probably enjoys working with Galen but she HAS to know this pairing has really sunk her and Hope is such a shell of who she used to be. But I guess loss can do that, except they don't play it out on-screen so either Kristian is making a choice or she's just truly checked out. She's so full of life off-screen ... 

 

LOL that dog wedding! Calliope and Eugene were SO bizarre. I like them at times but then I cringe all at the same time. Lawd. And absolutely it started going downhill before he arrived.

 

And LOL at the list of Ron's tropes and it's order. But it's 100% accurate now that you listed it out. Sooooo true. I always thought he could fit DAYS and when he honors history in a good way, it works. He has it in him somewhere (I think a stronger co-hw would go a looong way) but he resorts to tropes or he starts writing petty garbage because he's checked out. I often wonder if writers pitch better stuff but then resort to more outlandish [!@#$%^&*] in order to get it approved ...

 

And yep, we're at the mask phase ;) Just wait folks ... Oddly though it works better on DAYS than on GH ... LOL, but it's still so ridiculous. But JER would be proud. (And I'm willing to buy it in this case, oddly enough ...)

 

He tried the rapemance with "Gabby" and Stefan and it fell entirely flat so he lost interest and next thing you know Mansi is back to wrap it up (I wasn't her biggest fan but a part of me thinks, and it's just an assumption, that Miller bolted because she saw the writing on the wall with the rapemance with Stefan, but I'm probably wrong, LOL) and Chabby are shipped off (their exit was nice though ... I do think Ron has it in him ... but man he's beyond frustrating ... I'm not saying he's great but I've always thought he had it in him somewhere ... I know ... wishful thinking ... his runs on OLTL and GH all sort of repeated stuff ... and he loves his villain of the month ...)

 

I think Kristian actually enjoyed Cosgrove the most out of all her onscreen partners.  I've heard that through a fairly reliable source.  I think Haiden could have worked, but once they slept together they lost steam. 

 

Yeah, I do see some redeemable qualities in Ron. I like how he rotates the cast and brings back fan favorites.  I enjoy his obsession with history when he channels it the right way.  At Days, his brand of camp has moments when it resonates with the show.  So before I go any further, I want to simply state that I don't see him as a total failure.

 

But the man is destructive and he gets extremely lazy with a quickness.  One example to me is how he wrote Leo.  He relied on every horrible stereotype imaginable and it was past the point of simply being offensive.  I can't believe he had him stripping down in front of men, while proceeding to sexually assault half the male cast.  It was an embarrassment to even sit through an episode.  The man also seems to love plot driven stories seemingly tailored to decimate vital characters, rendering them unlikable.  The way he trolls people on Twitter is appalling, and once he stops giving a damn he targets fan bases with his writing.  It's a shitshow. 

 

You can always tell when the man runs out of steam and checks out.  The second he brought back Diana Collville (One of my fave heroines back in the day) and turned her into Cruella DeVille, I knew the man was asleep at the wheel.

 

He needs to turn off his "Knots Landing" reruns, and start attempting to put some sort of coherent thoughts into his stories before this dumpster fire gets out of control.  Where we are headed if this continues may make Dena Higley look like Jane Austen.  I kid you not.  I am afraid of how low it sinks from here.

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36 minutes ago, DaysFanatic777 said:

 

I think Kristian actually enjoyed Cosgrove the most out of all her onscreen partners.  I've heard that through a fairly reliable source.  I think Haiden could have worked, but once they slept together they lost steam. 

 

Yeah, I do see some redeemable qualities in Ron. I like how he rotates the cast and brings back fan favorites.  I enjoy his obsession with history when he channels it the right way.  At Days, his brand of camp has moments when it resonates with the show.  So before I go any further, I want to simply state that I don't see him as a total failure.

 

But the man is destructive and he gets extremely lazy with a quickness.  One example to me is how he wrote Leo.  He relied on every horrible stereotype imaginable and it was past the point of simply being offensive.  I can't believe he had him stripping down in front of men, while proceeding to sexually assault half the male cast.  It was an embarrassment to even sit through an episode.  The man also seems to love plot driven stories seemingly tailored to decimate vital characters, rendering them unlikable.  The way he trolls people on Twitter is appalling, and once he stops giving a damn he targets fan bases with his writing.  It's a shitshow. 

 

You can always tell when the man runs out of steam and checks out.  The second he brought back Diana Collville (One of my fave heroines back in the day) and turned her into Cruella DeVille, I knew the man was asleep at the wheel.

 

He needs to turn off his "Knots Landing" reruns, and start attempting to put some sort of coherent thoughts into his stories before this dumpster fire gets out of control.  Where we are headed if this continues may make Dena Higley look like Jane Austen.  I kid you not.  I am afraid of how low it sinks from here.

 

:wub:

 

PREACH!

 

You are not wrong at all. Nothing to add (yet; I'm still working on my coffee ;) ), your post perfectly summarizes him for me. 

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2 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

:wub:

 

PREACH!

 

You are not wrong at all. Nothing to add (yet; I'm still working on my coffee ;) ), your post perfectly summarizes him for me. 

Drink a cup for me.  Coffee is one of may favorite beverages (I think it's quite obvious what my number one choice would be :P)

 

Thank you so much for saying that, and you know great minds think alike.  

 

I have my own survivor's story, so when I see sexual assault being constantly presented as some cute and kinky plot device, it makes me both sick and furious.  He's done it with every single show he's written, which actually makes me question his mental state.  I don't think it gets more offensive than that shitty and repulsive story he did on OLTL.  

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10 minutes ago, DaysFanatic777 said:

Drink a cup for me.  Coffee is one of may favorite beverages (I think it's quite obvious what my number one choice would be :P)

 

Thank you so much for saying that, and you know great minds think alike.  

 

I have my own survivor's story, so when I see sexual assault being constantly presented as some cute and kinky plot device, it makes me both sick and furious.  He's done it with every single show he's written, which actually makes me question his mental state.  I don't think it gets more offensive than that shitty and repulsive story he did on OLTL.  

 

I agree. 

 

I mean, Hogan Sheffer also played male rape for laughs on ATWT.

 

It's repulsive and offensive. It's not kinky or hot or sexy. I wonder what place Ron gets in where he thinks a rapemance is sexy. Is that his fantasy? I mean ... I don't get it.

 

I've never really liked soaps using rape, because it was often never about the actual victim and what they go through, it was always just a plot device for shock value, or punishing a character. It's often always rubbed me the wrong way. I think probably only one or two soaps really played it the way they should have.

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Ron really loves the genre, and sometimes his skills for structuring a plot or laying it out across a canvas or timing a big reveal can still be seen in the bones of something. But he seems to have internalized the way he and Frank Valentini did things over at OLTL and GH to cut costs, where they would island characters and rotate them way too mechanically. There's a healthy amount of rotating storylines and then there's not seeing a key plotline for 1-3 weeks, while a ton of stuff happens offscreen. The latter is his habit in recent years. That's not even getting into how bad his OTT excesses have gotten, and his shrugging off murder, rape, etc. He has talent, but it's so buried for me these days beneath the camp, the cutting corners and the casual disregard for stuff that can really assassinate characters. You can always tell when the bus is coming for someone with him, or when he thinks the comedy or shock value of something will be worth the cost to a character he thinks can 'handle it'. I just don't trust him anymore and I haven't for years.

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We see it as lazy writing, but I wonder if Ron legit pitched his repetitive tropes as a formula for success to NBC/Sony/Corday. Like “I can do for DAYS what I did for OLTL/GH” and presented his list “From doppelgängers to masks.”

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3 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

I agree. 

 

I mean, Hogan Sheffer also played male rape for laughs on ATWT.

 

It's repulsive and offensive. It's not kinky or hot or sexy. I wonder what place Ron gets in where he thinks a rapemance is sexy. Is that his fantasy? I mean ... I don't get it.

 

I've never really liked soaps using rape, because it was often never about the actual victim and what they go through, it was always just a plot device for shock value, or punishing a character. It's often always rubbed me the wrong way. I think probably only one or two soaps really played it the way they should have.

I thought ATWT did a fantastic job with Margo's rape back in the day, and Santa Barbara did a wonderful job with Eden's attack.  Past that I have no other examples in mind to pull from.  

 

I have never liked how Days would use rape to create angst for their super couples.  They turned a horrific crime committed against a human being into a plot device.  It wasn't riveting...it was sadistic.  

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1 minute ago, Faulkner said:

We see it as lazy writing, but I wonder if Ron legit pitched his repetitive tropes as a formula for success to NBC/Sony/Corday. Like “I can do for DAYS what I did for OLTL/GH” and presented his list “From doppelgängers to masks.”

 

And frankly, a lot of that would work for a lot of people. I think, in theory, Ron is uniquely suited to DAYS. Is it the DAYS everyone likes, no, but DAYS has gone through many crazy eras. The problem is that DAYS has no money or time and Ron has no filter or brakes.

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2 minutes ago, Vee said:

Ron really loves the genre, and sometimes his skills for structuring a plot or laying it out across a canvas or timing a big reveal can still be seen in the bones of something. But he seems to have internalized the way he and Frank Valentini did things over at OLTL and GH to cut costs, where they would island characters and rotate them way too mechanically. There's a healthy amount of rotating storylines and then there's not seeing a key plotline for 1-3 weeks, while a ton of stuff happens offscreen. The latter is his habit in recent years. That's not even getting into how bad his OTT excesses have gotten, and his shrugging off murder, rape, etc. He has talent, but it's so buried for me these days beneath the camp, the cutting corners and the casual disregard for stuff that can really assassinate characters. You can always tell when the bus is coming for someone with him, or when he thinks the comedy or shock value of something will be worth the cost to a character he thinks can 'handle it'. I just don't trust him anymore and I haven't for years.

+1.  This should be framed. 

 

I remember when he took over at OLTL, and the fact is he did turn that show around.  For a while, it was the most entertaining drama in daytime, and I remember praising him  to the high heavens.  In fact, a lot of posters on here did that as well. I did lurk a lot here back in the day.

 

He has bad habits and he's unoriginal. When he first takes the helm at a show, he does pull from history and starts strong right out of gate.  Then he loses his edge, and the show will become a boring mess until her thinks of some over the top stunt to pull it back out again.  That cycle seems to continue until he is fired.  

 

I wouldn't want to be a soap writer because fans are so passionate and insane.  You couple that with the work load and network higher ups, and you have the worst writing gig in the entertainment industry.  I try to keep that in mind before I criticize a head writer too much, but lately Days has become so incredibly terrible that it's impossible to stop myself.  

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1 minute ago, DaysFanatic777 said:

 

I wouldn't want to be a soap writer because fans are so passionate and insane.  You couple that with the work load and network higher ups, and you have the worst writing gig in the entertainment industry.  I try to keep that in mind before I criticize a head writer too much, but lately Days has become so incredibly terrible that it's impossible to stop myself.  

Plus, working in a genre that has zero respect and didn’t even really have it when it was at its creative peak. You do really have to love it, it seems. Just a thankless job really, even when it was more lucrative, and burnout can happen so fast. Really makes you appreciate the dedication and seemingly endless creativity of the greats, who still had their share of rough patches and blunders.

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1 minute ago, Faulkner said:

Plus, working in a genre that has zero respect and didn’t even really have it when it was at its creative peak. You do really have to love it, it seems. Just a thankless job really, even when it was more lucrative, and burnout can happen so fast. Really makes you appreciate the dedication and seemingly endless creativity of the greats, who still had their share of rough patches and blunders.

You know, I personally idolize Douglas Marland and William Bell.  Harding Lemay is why up there on my list as well, as is Agnes Nixon.  Then you have the incredible Pat Falken-Smith, the one writer I felt could and would do a outstanding job on any soap opera.  She could work the canvas like an artist whether she was making Port Charles sizzle, or turning up the drama in Salem.  That's a rarity.

 

However, every single one of those greats also gave us some WTF moments.  No one can be perfect turning out scripts for 260 episodes of television per year.  That is an unbelievable challenge.  

 

I think Daytime Dramas have died a slow death because the writers we have had available this millennium didn't grasp what the greats had in common;  they adapted flawlessly to the changing times.  They weren't afraid to transform a drama as cultural norms and trends shifted.  The stories currently being told on the remaining four could easily be told in 1992, and that is a massive issue that sadly is past the point of addressing.  

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I was one of Ron's very first boosters at OLTL. He took over the show and made it the best it had been in over a decade. Back in his first year or two I would tell anyone who would listen. He did great work there (and even some at GH, where he and Frank saved the show in 2012 IMO, and it was far from perfect even then). He also did terrible work, and I allegedly got on his shít list for being very vocal elsewhere re: the Todd/Marty rapemance, though we have never interacted personally to my knowledge.

 

Most people working in this genre - or anywhere in the world, in life - are more than one extreme, they're a lot of things, especially when ground down by time or budget or constraints. They're human beings and nuanced, not monsters. It is a thankless job. I try to factor all that in. And I know Ron didn't get to do everything he wanted at OLTL or GH or even DAYS. But I also know a lot of his biggest mistakes are all him, and I think he got very arrogant and lazy some years ago.

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That first two years of Ron at OLTL and GH were so much better than what we had been getting, but the messy times were there too.  The issue is that he starts to climax the stuff that was his “A” material, the stuff he gets accolades and ratings growth with.  And then he runs out of places to go, or chooses the easy way out of a storyline (shocks, killing off characters, etc).  No one writer should have told so many DID, doppelgänger, and forgotten children storylines on the same shows.

 

Anyone that is a comic book fan can see Ron’s problematic style.  Strip-mining history for moments to build his plots around.  Any chance for someone to have been off screen is a chance for Ron to have given them a child, past as a spy, twin, etc.  He does it so much though that it is a trope in his writing, and often the telling gets worse with each copy.

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9 minutes ago, Vee said:

I was one of Ron's very first boosters at OLTL. He took over the show and made it the best it had been in over a decade. Back in his first year or two I would tell anyone who would listen. He did great work there (and even some at GH, where he and Frank saved the show in 2012 IMO, and it was far from perfect even then). He also did terrible work, and I allegedly got on his shít list for being very vocal elsewhere re: the Todd/Marty rapemance, though we have never interacted personally to my knowledge.

 

Most people working in this genre - or anywhere in the world, in life - are more than one extreme, they're a lot of things, especially when ground down by time or budget or constraints. They're human beings and nuanced, not monsters. It is a thankless job. I try to factor all that in. And I know Ron didn't get to do everything he wanted at OLTL or GH or even DAYS. But I also know a lot of his biggest mistakes are all him, and I think he got very arrogant and lazy some years ago.

You've got to give the devil his due.  Ron did in fact save GH, and he has found a way to give Days four extra years (I'm telling you, it will be gone more than likely after this next chance for renewal).  That means two daytime dramas are still airing because Ron Carlivati found a way to reinvigorate the shows.  That's no small feat in 2019. 

 

Save the rapemance, I thought his first year to year and a half at Days was enjoyable.  Has it been plagues by tropes, ridiculous camp, enormous plot holes, and poorly developed characters?  Of course, but it is "Days of Our Lives" and no one expects this show to be an in depth character study.  There was a time when it was a sophisticated drama that was driven by interwoven relationships and social issues.  Sadly that show died with disco, and this is what we are left with.  I think Ron is a decent choice for the show at this point.

 

I'm just seriously dreading where we are headed from here.  Once he reaches this point in his tenure on any given show, things really go to hell in a hand basket.  Since the new year arrived, this show has fallen apart faster than a gazelle popping Adderall, and it's going to continue to spiral.

 

I had always hoped Sheri Anderson would be brought back to see this show off the air, but now that's highly unlikely.  Ron will be there when this show makes it's final bow, and I'd bet my entire savings account that it will be a f#cking dumpster fire of enormous proportions when the sand finally runs out of the hourglass. 

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