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14 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

I always sound like the president of the Heather Rattray fan club, but I do think the change in writing and actresses went a long way in making Lilly a hell of a lot more digestible to me during that time. 

She was the first Lily I ever saw, and I was always able to care about her, especially during the miscarriage storyline. I struggled with the character after Heather left. I wasn't that surprised to learn she was not popular with fans, given what a departure she was from Martha, but I think her work has held up well - frankly, better than much of Lily's other material. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Brolden said:

Here's a small photo from 2002 that shows Aaron with Caleb and Julie both

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When did Julie appear in 1999? I know she was present at Holden and Lily's wedding in 1998, but I can't remember her '99 appearance

 

Sorry, I meant 1998. I had 1999 in my head for some reason! lol

 

And thank you for the photo. Such a shame Julie never returned regularly. Not that they'd probably write her well at all ...

6 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

She was the first Lily I ever saw, and I was always able to care about her, especially during the miscarriage storyline. I struggled with the character after Heather left. I wasn't that surprised to learn she was not popular with fans, given what a departure she was from Martha, but I think her work has held up well - frankly, better than much of Lily's other material. 

 

I liked her as well. It felt like a very different Lily but it *worked*. I noticed they seemed to play her a bit more with Iva/Lisa Brown even though Lily was in the business world (though I was only able to watch so much on YouTube so ...).

 

But I really liked her in the role honestly. 

Edited by KMan101
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3 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Yes. But I do think soap writers have a tendency to confuse "humanity" with "sanding off the edges".
I do think a good writer could pull a raging bitch who is likeable and yet does not stop being a bitch or spoiled.
Too often, when TPTP decide a character is a lead, then suddenly all the thorns, asperities, ugly sides of a character's personality are shaved off AND forgotten and they become generic.
That was one admirable thing about Lucinda for so long that she managed to hold center-stage without ceasing to be horrible at times. And I think there was plenty of room for Lily to spoiled and brattish AND compelling without trying to brainwash us into thinking she was sweet.

...but I didn't think Lily was sweet. It wasn't until I got on social media that I started to hear that we the viewers were supposed to believe that Lily was infallible. Then again, I didn't really focus on Lily in those days.

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6 hours ago, Mitch said:

Dee was no go getting bright bulb to begin with...she seemed half drugged every day..but she took a sleeping pill....thought it was pervey Brad ( she moaned..Braaadddd..) but it was actually pervey John and did the deed..I think she "woke up" in the middle of it...anyway, it was offensive on all levels.  I think if the Dobsons kind of wanted us to see it as David pressing Dee to charge John, and the Hughes and the rest of the town backing him up as John was a total pariah at that time. But the problem was it made David into a creepy ass to put his daughter through a trial, made everyone else in town look almost as bad, and both Dee and Ellen seemed like passive drippy women being led by their noses by David. So really, resources of the police and the courts were wasted as two influential families indulged in a revenge suit against an old foe.

And John was ran over not shot (that happened later) and blinded. Right after that we had the writers strike and endless scenes in Margos cottage with John...and then Dee visiting to try to get a divorce, then Tom or Brad yelling at John, Brad gazing into the sky when Dee's name was mentioned..Lisa chasing after pervy Brad...James twirling his mustache as a dumb Margo couldn't see what was going on, Ellen worried about a missing David, and a bunch of newbies running around town..it was a horrible summer!

 

They should have been like Dallas and made this era a bad dream.  Such terrible writing and disgrace to long time fans

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, slick jones said:

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Cleveland Amory was famous for hating everything on TV, except cats.  He really liked cats and promoted the humane treatment of feral cats into the public conscience.  That being said, it always seems unfair when TV critics write about a soap that they did not follow.  It would be like a literary critic only writing about the second book in a trilogy without the benefit of reading the other two.  It reminds me of when the NY Times wrote a review of the online versions of AMC and OLTL, the main thesis was that they were difficult to follow for the uninitiated fan.  Of course, those shows were not meant for uninitiated fans, and few people would watch one episode of a soap and expect to immediately understand the plot.

Also, he repeats that old yarn about Eileen Fulton being accosted on the streets of New York by a fan who could not tell fact from fiction. I dislike that story because it diminishes the intelligence of soap fans.  Sometimes that mythical tale happened to Ms. Fulton in a supermarket involving a tomato and sometimes it happened on the street.  However, I would give a hubbard squash to anyone who could actually verify those events. 

 

 

Edited by j swift
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On 7/25/2021 at 5:30 PM, j swift said:

I was just thinking about how amusing it was that the women of east coast soaps had such sophisticated fashion sensibilities in their choices of clothes, makeup and hair styles. 

I guess it would make sense that Barbara, Lisa, and Carly would keep up with the trends, but it is fun to watch the 90s episodes to see how often the other women are wearing major designers.  It was also a different time when everyone was much less casual in their daily attire (from 90210 to Clueless every young woman wore a blazer with every outfit).  However, I was watching an episode and in one day in Oakdale, Lucinda wore an Escada suit with coordinating coat and shoes, Connor wore a Donna Karan suit, and even Kim Hughes was wearing Armani head to toe.  And think about how avant garde Kim and Carly's haircuts would seem to be in such a small suburban city.

I'm not dissing the midwest, but one wonders about the authenticity of the availability (and affordability) of these small town women wearing high end fashion.  I doubt that we would see many women in a suburban midwestern Target today looking as chic as those ladies.  It wasn't just that their clothes were expensive, but it was complete polished looks that they tuned out on a daily basis (with the obvious exception being Emma Snyder).  In real life, Ellie would have needed another farm just to store all of her hats.  It is fun to look at, and I never questioned it when I watched them at the time, but upon rewatch, the fashions styling was really remarkable.

I think Oakdale is supposed to be a suburb of Chicago.  Wherever it is I’ve always pictured it to be very affluent.  Since most of the women are very active and successful there would likely be stores and boutiques to cater to the town’s clientele or they could travel to find designer clothes.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, TVFAN1144 said:

Since most of the women are very active and successful there would likely be stores and boutiques to cater to the town’s clientele or they could travel to find designer clothes.

With all due respect, I would also offer a hubbard squash to anyone who can find a retired cabaret singing, doctor's wife, and great grandmother in the outer suburbs of Chicago (close to the farmland) who was that chic.

Even with this obvious misstep

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To be clear, I don't doubt that women in the midwest can dress well.  I was merely remarking on the universal styling abilities of the characters seemed to reflect an urbane New York sensibility rather than the suburban setting of Oakdale (even with its rather active nightlife).

Edited by j swift
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16 hours ago, DRW50 said:

He goes out of his way to make the story more complicated than it really was. 

Thanks for posting the review. I just wish more people who appreciated soaps were assigned to write about them at the time. 

Glad you appreciated it. It popped up in a 60s and 70s page on FB. The writer is a negative Nelly--he always is. I enjoy reading any takes on the shows I find.  The story about EF reminds me of a game of telephone. It's been told and re-told so many times there are hundreds of versions of it.

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4 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:


I do think a good writer could pull a raging bitch who is likeable and yet does not stop being a bitch or spoiled.

It worked for Sami on DAYS for a long time. And Laura on GH before the ending of the Ice Princess, as Lesley would have described her as troubled.  She was a straight up brat quite a bit, but it had a humanity to it and Genie made her rootable.  Marland certainly wanted her to remain vain and self centered.

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2 hours ago, slick jones said:

Glad you appreciated it. It popped up in a 60s and 70s page on FB. The writer is a negative Nelly--he always is. I enjoy reading any takes on the shows I find.  The story about EF reminds me of a game of telephone. It's been told and re-told so many times there are hundreds of versions of it.

I've never even heard of anyone who described Bob as "unfeeling male obstinacy" walking.  Although, this was the 60/70s, and I know around the same time he didn't want his wife Jennifer to resume her career.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MarlandFan said:

Heather Rattray definitely made Lily her own. She helped move Lily to adulthood and made us feel Lily's anguish during the miscarriage/ Holden's amnesia/ the Aaron deception storylines.

 

Heather Rattray definitely brought her own to the character, but I definitely could not have seen the warmer, motherly years of Martha Byrne's second return working for Rattray.

Jon Hensley did have this to say as for part of the reason why she exited the role of Lily: "We didn't have that underlying chemistry that you need to make it work day in and day out."

Edited by Liberty City
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14 hours ago, j swift said:

With all due respect, I would also offer a hubbard squash to anyone who can find a retired cabaret singing, doctor's wife, and great grandmother in the outer suburbs of Chicago (close to the farmland) who was that chic.

Ha! However, I don't think you can find too many our ring suburbs that have  spies, rich scottish muscle men (straight) with transported castles or a beloved flamboyant town busy body running around with feather boas either but...I can see a doctors wife..who also has her own considerable wealth, dressing like that...just not day in and day out...(we never see anyone but the farm folk in jeans..)

I do think the geography of Oakdale is a bit bizarre. I always thought it was a city close to Chicago that yes, in later years would be an outer ring suburb..but not only the Snyder farm but other farms make it seem more Central Illinois then anything else. Its the same as Springfield which could not possibly be in Illinois as it has a lighthouse, so it would have to be Michigan but...

 

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17 hours ago, j swift said:

 

Also, he repeats that old yarn about Eileen Fulton being accosted on the streets of New York by a fan who could not tell fact from fiction. I dislike that story because it diminishes the intelligence of soap fans.  Sometimes that mythical tale happened to Ms. Fulton in a supermarket involving a tomato and sometimes it happened on the street.  However, I would give a hubbard squash to anyone who could actually verify those events. 

 

 

It probably never happened. It was probably a PR ploy back in the day to get people to tune in to see what all the "fuss" was about and it turned into an urban legend over time. The reason for so many variations of the story is because writers and actors couldn't remember what the official story was supposed to be. I've seen EF recount the story of being slapped in the street by an obviously deranged person with a laugh and a smile. I doubt that anyone who had that happen to them would tell the story with a smile and a chuckle. Nor would they just brush it off and not have the person arrested. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, MarlandFan said:

Heather Rattray definitely made Lily her own. She helped move Lily to adulthood and made us feel Lily's anguish during the miscarriage/ Holden's amnesia/ the Aaron deception storylines.

 

And Lucinda had rubbed off on her when she double crossed Barbara at Montgomery and Associates. That's who Lily should've become. After Martha returned all that was gone.

4 hours ago, Liberty City said:

Heather Rattray definitely brought her own to the character, but I definitely could not have seen the warmer, motherly years of Martha Byrne's second return working for Rattray.

Jon Hensley did have this to say as for part of the reason why she exited the role of Lily: "We didn't have that underlying chemistry that you need to make it work day in and day out."

I heard Rattray had only planned on staying for those two years. I thought they had enough chemistry. 

Edited by Soapsuds
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