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edgeofnik

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, slick jones said:

And you be as naive as you want. Feel free to use the ignore button! 

You shouldn't ask for opinions if you don't want to read them.

 

I certainly will.

And I never said I didn't want to read them, slick. I'm simply using your logic (again) to counteract what it is you've seemingly brought to the table, via your opinion.

I was not the one who came off quite cold first. Reacted in the manner of which I was responded to.

Edited by Liberty City
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6 hours ago, lilyredd said:

Thanks for the episode.

 

This will be unpopular, but this episode epitomizes why I often disliked Marland’s writing and why I disliked Lily so much. 
 

The Walsh takeover had only been a few months prior to this wedding. Someone who takes over my mom’s company will not be at my wedding, my hubby is not working for them nor will I dance with one of the people and beg them to work together. Lily is awful. 
 

That little scene with Lucinda at the beginning where she says she would concentrate on her own life should have come to fruition. It showed a lack of imagination to just write her as interfering with Iva’s daughter. Lucinda is a joyous character- let her have fun. It was a missed opportunity. A Lucinda untethered from Lily would have had fun. Frankly, a Holden free from Lily would have had fun. 
 

The couples here lack heat or joy or fun. I can see why Zenk enjoyed the writing for her character in later years. Here and so often with some of her pairings she looks so earnest instead of joyful. It must have been freeing to just play.

 

 

 

 

 

They could have done all of this after Marland's death. The characters all outlived him. Why didn't they do it?

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1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

They could have done all of this after Marland's death. The characters all outlived him. Why didn't they do it?

That same lack of imagination? Lol, I don’t know. Writing for such a large cast with all the intendant requirements and demands is immensely difficult. I just did not enjoy the tone or the direction of the Lily/Lucinda dynamic. 

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2 hours ago, lilyredd said:

That same lack of imagination? Lol, I don’t know. Writing for such a large cast with all the intendant requirements and demands is immensely difficult. I just did not enjoy the tone or the direction of the Lily/Lucinda dynamic. 

 

It just feels as if people forget that the series didn't begin and end with Marland's tenure. 

Lucinda's vitality as a character should have boosted as Lily became more and more entrenched in adult life, yet Lucinda didn't go in that direction in the character's latter years. Other than having Lucinda stricken with illness, what was really done with the character to show her as a vital, spirited woman? When Lily became a mother and it was clear that she was fully on her own as a woman, would have been the perfect time to give Lucinda a new path. I don't even remember Lucinda driving much storyline at that point.

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14 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

It just feels as if people forget that the series didn't begin and end with Marland's tenure. 

Lucinda's vitality as a character should have boosted as Lily became more and more entrenched in adult life, yet Lucinda didn't go in that direction in the character's latter years. Other than having Lucinda stricken with illness, what was really done with the character to show her as a vital, spirited woman? When Lily became a mother and it was clear that she was fully on her own as a woman, would have been the perfect time to give Lucinda a new path. I don't even remember Lucinda driving much storyline at that point.

 

Lucinda essentially had Worldwide by the end... and then that blink-and-miss husband.

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13 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

It just feels as if people forget that the series didn't begin and end with Marland's tenure. 

Lucinda's vitality as a character should have boosted as Lily became more and more entrenched in adult life, yet Lucinda didn't go in that direction in the character's latter years. Other than having Lucinda stricken with illness, what was really done with the character to show her as a vital, spirited woman? When Lily became a mother and it was clear that she was fully on her own as a woman, would have been the perfect time to give Lucinda a new path. I don't even remember Lucinda driving much storyline at that point.

I actually do not disagree with you. I watched most consistently from 86-93 so that is my main point of reference with story and writers. I only watched intermittently after that time with college and career etc. I don’t think Lisa, Bob, Kim, Susan had much at a certain point either beyond health issues or their kids. Strangely, when I watched in later years the dynamic with Lily and Lucinda no longer irritated me. 

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12 hours ago, slick jones said:

We would have had Carly with DID-- Carly , Marly, Sharly and angry boy personality Farly.

 

I am not going to lie here: I know this is being said mockingly and inferred to be awful (which, yes, probably would be). And I know people have a complicated relationship with later-years Carly. But boy is there a part of me who kinda sorta wonders what magic Maura West could have done with that kind of storyline.

Also, we mock what "would have been" but: Cleo.

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On 6/20/2021 at 6:05 AM, lilyredd said:

The couples here lack heat or joy or fun. I can see why Zenk enjoyed the writing for her character in later years. Here and so often with some of her pairings she looks so earnest instead of joyful. It must have been freeing to just play.

 

This totally describes Marland's ATWT..not only do the couples lack those two attributes but the families do too. Everyone seems to be together because they have to be, not that they like each other or have any deep bonds.  That's why Longs and Curlee's GL was so much better then ATWT..despite it not being structured as tightly as Marland would do or use history as much...ATWT is the friend you invite to the party because you would feel guilty if you didn't while GL was the friend you wanted to be there as you don't know what might happen.

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16 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

It just feels as if people forget that the series didn't begin and end with Marland's tenure. 

Lucinda's vitality as a character should have boosted as Lily became more and more entrenched in adult life, yet Lucinda didn't go in that direction in the character's latter years. Other than having Lucinda stricken with illness, what was really done with the character to show her as a vital, spirited woman? When Lily became a mother and it was clear that she was fully on her own as a woman, would have been the perfect time to give Lucinda a new path. I don't even remember Lucinda driving much storyline at that point.

 

Generally the show would focus on Lucinda reacting to another relative, usually one who was long-lost, if the story wasn't about Lily. Marland returned to the pattern previously established with Sierra by bringing in Neal and Royce. Then after Marland's death, Sam filled that void. Then as Lily moved into a more settled life, they brought in he's-her-son-oh-wait-he-isn't David, and granddaughter Georgia, along with the bizarre James romance. I don't think any of this ever would have lasted, to put it kindly, but Liz Hubbard's hostile relationship with Felicia Minei Behr ensured it wouldn't. Then, when Liz returned to the show, she was mostly kept in an even stricter supporting role, there to react to Lily or to Craig. 

 

I do think Lucinda's use in the last year, so heavily manipulating various story strands and finally leaving for a life of her own after Lily took Worldwide away from her, was satisfyingly done - more than I would have expected by that point, anyway. 

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20 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I do think Lucinda's use in the last year, so heavily manipulating various story strands and finally leaving for a life of her own after Lily took Worldwide away from her, was satisfyingly done - more than I would have expected by that point, anyway. 

 

That seems more akin to being a shining star on top of a massive dung heap.

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Just now, DramatistDreamer said:

 

That seems more akin to being a shining star on top of a massive dung heap.

 

On the one hand, I agree, but, even if it wasn't anything especially original for the character, it's still probably the most i enjoyed anything they did with Lucinda in ATWT's last 10-15 years. 

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Not saying anybody here has said this but, when I have read some other threads, I often get the idea that people want older characters to be involved, yes meddle in their children's lives, rather than have active stories of their own. I have heard this of Victor and Nikki on Y&R as people think that they drain too much focus from younger characters. It's not my opinion, although giving them storylines more suitable for twenty year olds isn't the answer either.

6 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

On the one hand, I agree, but, even if it wasn't anything especially original for the character, it's still probably the most i enjoyed anything they did with Lucinda in ATWT's last 10-15 years. 

 

Having her closeted husband canoodling with Luke seemed very 1995 to me.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Having her closeted husband canoodling with Luke seemed very 1995 to me.

 

To be honest a story where Lucinda got too attached to a barely closeted gay man (with the implication being that she knew, but she had come of age in an era where she was willing to play dumb as long as he was a handsome escort to parties or kept her company) and then he ended up betraying her with a family member is something which might have been interesting with better handling but it was so rushed and seemed to be something someone got cold feet about (I'm surprised it got through at all).

 

I was talking more about her storylines in 2010 as enjoyable to me, although I agree part is down to low expectations. It's the same reason I enjoyed Barbara's material in her last year more than anyone here, probably. 

 

Liz did offer ideas for stories that would have been about Lucinda, like Lucinda going back to school. I wish they'd been accepted, even if in Lucinda's case, her being a spoiler/meddler was ingrained in the character and seemingly difficult to shake.

Edited by DRW50
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