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As The World Turns Discussion Thread


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2 hours ago, adrnyc said:

I forgot how fantastic Bryant’s death storyline was. I cried for 5 days in a row. One of the best conceived and executed storylines from the writers to the actors. Perfection. And crazy Julia. Annie Parisse is a beloved NYC actor and it was so great watching her descent into madness. Looked forward to every time she’d come back. Until, like James S. she came back one too many times. Am loving this chat with the writers. 

As I continue to watch this, it’s clear that Jean wanted to use the history characters more but it all came down to money. The producers wouldn’t let them write for certain characters because they cost too much money due to their longevity on the show. So much great information in this and making me see its final years in a completely different light. I loved the show under Sheffer - one of the great head writers of all time - but found it hit and miss from 2005-2010. I think they ultimately brought the show to an incredibly satisfying and emotional conclusion. I still cry when I watch that final episode. 

Crazy Julia got played out. Still crazy Julia was better than BLAND Julia. Killing Bryant was shortsighted. Hogan loved killing people off. GL has no money. Yet GL brought back many fan favorites for the end. I did like the first 2 yrs of Hogan's run. Hogan was vastly overrated. He was no Doug Marland. The ending wasn't all that. Aside from Lucinda and John ending up together They'd had to kill my beautiful Reid. One of the best new character to step foot in Oakdale in years. So BLAND Chirs Hughes could have his heart. Those years were a chore to watch. 

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Bryant's death was extremely shortsighted and the fall-out was incredibly hallow, like much of Sheffer's writing. Soaps are not film or episodic television, and Sheffer and subsequent writers never understood this. 

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3 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

Bryant's death was extremely shortsighted and the fall-out was incredibly hallow, like much of Sheffer's writing. Soaps are not film or episodic television, and Sheffer and subsequent writers never understood this. 

 

It was mostly just done to try to make us feel sorry for Craig, as Hunt Block awkwardly tried to force out tears and made weird trombone sounds before they had Carly give him pity sex. The whole story was gross to me, and crass. 

 

Sheffer hated soaps and it showed from start to finish. The writers who were forced into daytime due to lack of real options elsewhere and openly expressed contempt for the genre - while being cheerleaded by the likes of Michael Logan and other shills who also saw themselves as being above daytime - helped kill the genre off for good.

 

Even now we have Mr. "Jack Abbott black rabbit," who was supposed to have left the genre for greener pastures, going back and forth. Just go write more for the WWE - that's become a bad parody of a soap anyway. 

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It’s like y’all just watched a completely different show. I just can’t relate. I wish I could find a place where people loved As The World Turns. People here hate the Snyder family, they hate Martha Byrne’s Lily, Katie, Carly, Jack, the men under Marland’s tenure, NO head writer it seems, or any period of the show except the 60s and 70s (which are unavailable for viewing so they’re only memories so old that the memories of what the show was back then aren’t real) or it seems any storyline that didn’t involve Kim, Bob, John or Lucinda. So weird. Sometimes, I wonder: what do you people LIKE about the show??? Don’t bother answering. I’ve learned my lesson. Stay away from the toxic boards at Soap Opera Network. 

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After reading some comments here I might actually watch this Locher Room session. I didn't realize JP's hands were so tied by higher ups. You can blame her for listening to them but at the end of the day she probably just wanted to keep her job, and why wouldn't she. I thought quite some storyline ideas from her tenure were actually not bad, just not well executed or too fast-paced. Lucinda marrying Brian who was secretly gay should've been a large storyline spanning a much longer period of time. Hunter being Emily's son from an unused egg had great potential. I can't think of any others from the top of my head so maybe there are not that many after all 😄.

 

5 hours ago, prefab1 said:

Agreed with nearly all of those points. I thought the show really went downhill after Sheffer left in early 2005. Every time I tried to turn in during that period, I kept seeing mind-numbingly dull Paul-Meg-Dusty storylines, or not-so-interesting drama surrounding Carly's insta-sister Gwen, or CarJack stuck in the same never-ending cycle of break-ups and make-ups.

 

The period you mention around late 2009 was MUCH better, and significantly, that's when David Kreizman joined as co-head writer. I know that a lot of SON regulars like to blame Kreizman for GL's problems in later years, but I think he's very good at developing character-driven storylines. And developing characters generally: I'd be surprised if Reid wasn't a Kreizman creation. 

 

I had no idea there actually as a co-headwriter from that moment on. That might definitely explain the positive changes I started to see.

 

10 hours ago, Chris B said:

@Markjeh I loved Jade too! Elena Goode I think was the first Jade. The only problem I had was not doing more with her. She was great! 
 

Also I know it’s unpopular, but I loved Hunt Block as Craig. He was my original Craig and why I started watching because I liked him on Knots Landing. When I saw her was on ATWT I started watching. Previously I only watched Y&R. I do love Scott Bryce though and was so disappointed with his return and firing. I’m glad Dansby mentioned how poor the writing was for his return. 

 

Yeah, they never really developed Jade beyond being obsessed with Will and Gwen. A shame considering her being Rose's daughter gave her quite some connections.

 

I remember Hunt Block being ridiculously popular on Dutch message boards, and to be honest I can see why (but ATWT started airing here in 1990 so I'm pretty sure the Dutch people never knew the original Craig, or only briefly). .

 

15 minutes ago, adrnyc said:

It’s like y’all just watched a completely different show. I just can’t relate. I wish I could find a place where people loved As The World Turns. People here hate the Snyder family, they hate Martha Byrne’s Lily, Katie, Carly, Jack, the men under Marland’s tenure, NO head writer it seems, or any period of the show except the 60s and 70s (which are unavailable for viewing so they’re only memories so old that the memories of what the show was back then aren’t real) or it seems any storyline that didn’t involve Kim, Bob, John or Lucinda. So weird. Sometimes, I wonder: what do you people LIKE about the show??? Don’t bother answering. I’ve learned my lesson. Stay away from the toxic boards at Soap Opera Network. 

 

Don't let the negatives get to you. I really enjoyed the show from 2000 until say 2004, but admittedly that's when I started watching and I think everyone has a special place in their heart for the characters that were on during the time they started watching. Sometimes I watch old episodes mainly from 2000-2002 and I think they still hold up pretty well.

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Y'all actually watched that mess? I just couldn't bear to sit there and watch Jean state the obvious--that she was basically there to collect a check. 

 

If this video reinforces anything (from all your commentary), it is that this genre is dying simply because it no longer possesses visionaries that care for the genre and don't fear fighting against TPTB to keep these shows alive and flourishing. 

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35 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

If this video reinforces anything (from all your commentary), it is that this genre is dying simply because it no longer possesses visionaries that care for the genre and don't fear fighting against TPTB to keep these shows alive and flourishing. 

 

I see what you're saying, but I'm not entirely sure if I agree. If we look at the 4 soaps on the air today, half of them (Y&R, GH) do seem to be written as generically as possible, with no particular vision or voice discernible from the head writers. But B&B and DOOL do have more distinctive head writers at the helm; I personally think Brad Bell's vision is inane, and I enjoy Ron Carlivati's distinctive style quite a bit, but YMMV.

 

Also, I think that "visionary" writers can sometimes harm a show; Bob Guza had a distinctive voice, and he ended up gutting much of what was good about GH. And Claire Labine tried to impose her distinctive style on GL, and the results were nearly unwatchable. 

Edited by prefab1
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5 hours ago, Markjeh said:

I thought quite some storyline ideas from her tenure were actually not bad, just not well executed or too fast-paced.


I have very strong feelings about ATWT’s last five years, but this about sums it up. There were so many tools in place for it to be a great show, but those tools were never utilized to their fullest potential, and it just made for a frustrating show. You had a solid core of important families, a decent spread of characters in all age groups, a cast that had a history working together on the show, characters that had long histories with each other, large enough openings to introduce new characters and explore new relationships, etc., but every single time it seemed like we were headed for something with substance, it was derailed for some short-term villain of the month story or side-lined for a boring A story.

 

That being said, I give a lot of credit to maybe the first two years of JP’s run because for all of the show’s faults, it was mostly not a sick or embarrassing soap. I came into ATWT after watching JER’s second run at DAYS, which became an embarrassing joke. AMC was turning into a joke as McTavish’s third run quickly soured. Later, I was deep into Ronald’s OLTL until it, too, became a sick joke. As boring and lame as JP’s ATWT became, and as far from its glory days the show had strayed, it never had dead people transported to a tropical island, never had an aborted fetus roaming its sets, and never had men running around in their underwear trying to hide bags of blood. ATWT’s “bad” was nowhere near the level of bad that I saw on other shows that I had once enjoyed watching, so it’s just hard for me to beat up on it.
 

Of course, I was a teen then, and I didn’t have the luxury of comparing the show to previous eras, but in the grand scheme of soaps in 2005-2010, ATWT was far from the worst, IMO.

Edited by All My Shadows
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So glad that I missed the most recent episode of The Locher Room as I have a very low tolerance for bull-s*hit. Hopefully Victoria Rowell can have Susan Dansby on her podcast where I can listen.  Maybe she can have Tamara Tunie too, seeing as Tunie clearly can't stand the prospect of having to go on this livestream and have to lie and make nice regarding her experience on ATWT.  

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Let's face it, had Marland lived past 1993..he would have most likely resigned from Atwt eventually.  Curlee,Long, Dobson's left the genre..and Nixon was kept out of the writing room at AMC.

 

Sheffer needed a strong EP to keep him in line...while Ron on Days needs a co head writer to balance him out.

 

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1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

Let's face it, had Marland lived past 1993..he would have most likely resigned from Atwt eventually.  Curlee,Long, Dobson's left the genre..and Nixon was kept out of the writing room at AMC.

 

Sheffer needed a strong EP to keep him in line...while Ron on Days needs a co head writer to balance him out.

 

No amount of strong EPs will balance out someone who hates soaps. Sheffer bragged about how he wasn't a soap writer, and he was appalled at the basic tenets of storytelling which didn't involve "men with balls" and random characters humping. He said as much himself. He may have been a good writer in another genre, but not daytime. 

 

Marland would have left ATWT within a few years, as he had another soap planned. The main difference might have been that he could have left ATWT in a better place. ATWT was actually in good shape when P&G and John Valente began hacking it to pieces, but the year to two years before that had been terrible for the show - moribund, dispiriting, and almost daring viewers to stop watching from sheer apathy. 

Edited by DRW50
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This may be old news... but I don't remember hearing about it at the time.

 

I just watched a 2016 Robert DeNiro movie called The Comedian. He plays a former sitcom star, who's trying to break loose from his sitcom character and have a career in stand-up comedy. Anyway, towards the end of the movie he attends a "classic TV convention" and while he's at a table for meet-and-greets, guess who's at the table right next to him? "Soap Opera vixen" Colleen Zenk!

She has no lines and is only in about two quick shots, but it was pretty nice to see regardless. The movie wasn't all that great, though, in my opinion.

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So...poor little Pissy "had her hands tied", and that's why her stories were repetitive and unmotivated? Really?  Yes, Gwen and Will may have had to be front burner---but there was nothing to write for them other than becoming baby-obsessed at 20?  It was important for Brad to come back younger than Jack---even though that completely contradicted what we'd seen play out on screen, and vastly changed Jack's backstory (if one thought about it....which of course, the show wouldn't have wanted us to do....)? 

 

Making it make a little sense is a low threshold, and Pissy rarely even made that.  There are so many stories that could have made more sense, had someone in the writing room taken five minutes and thought about the "why" of things, and restrained themselves from going that one last step that made things distasteful. 

 

RE: the critical nature of the discussion. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it's not just some rah-rah, "everything was GREAT" discussion, but sometimes it does get me down. I try and remember everyone has the right to express their opinions. But for me, Marland was a GOD, the Snyders were a breath of fresh air, and CARJACK ROCKED.  

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Passanante was repeatedly employed as a HW because she would write as directed, not because she had a talent for it. And she wrote the poorest stories possible. I'm sure she's as talented a staff/breakdown writer as many say she is, but she has never been a good HW. Ever. Her AMC was its nadir for me, next to the Rayfield/Cascio Fronsian interregnum in early 2003.

 

@Darn reminded me of a statement somewhere once that said most HWs today keep pitching baby stories above all because the networks will almost universally approve those vs. anything else. That explains why AMC, GL, etc. turned into Mormon baby factories by the end. It's why fùcking party girl Maxie Jones on GH has two fùcking kids. It's laziness, apathy and keeping the checks coming. I thought ATWT was hollowed out and dead long before it was cancelled and Passanante is a major part of that.

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