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Jean apparently does read comments about her online. So she knows we've called her a hack. Same with Tom Jack Rabbit Casiello and apparently he doesn't give a damn. Again he looked so dirty today.

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I will say, I loved Jean Passanante as HW after Hogan left. I thought the show was pretty good. Now her GH? AMC? No ma’am. I will not defend that, but I do think she did fine at ATWT. I also was happy they mentioned that it was Goutman who stopped them from bringing people back. We all knew that was the case. Hell, he wouldn’t even allow Martha Byrne to come back for one damn episode. 
 

Overall I did enjoy this episode. I was especially happy to hear from Charlotte Gibson who I haven’t heard from before. Both she and Susan Dansby are rare for black writers in soaps so I’d love to hear just from them on how they broke through. We know it isn’t easy. 

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22 minutes ago, Chris B said:

I will say, I loved Jean Passanante as HW after Hogan left. I thought the show was pretty good. Now her GH? AMC? No ma’am. I will not defend that, but I do think she did fine at ATWT. I also was happy they mentioned that it was Goutman who stopped them from bringing people back. We all knew that was the case. Hell, he wouldn’t even allow Martha Byrne to come back for one damn episode. 
 

Overall I did enjoy this episode. I was especially happy to hear from Charlotte Gibson who I haven’t heard from before. Both she and Susan Dansby are rare for black writers in soaps so I’d love to hear just from them on how they broke through. We know it isn’t easy. 

 

Yep, I figured it was Goutman ...

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I thought JP's work on ATWT was overall really bad. 2005 was just a horrible year imo and I only found out later that's when she started. The organ story with Keith and Lily was terrible. Carly having a never-seen before sister in Gwen was so random and not convincing. The BJ Green story was terrible. A very lackluster year.

 

Early 2006 was pretty good with the big Emily story and Luke's coming out. Probably very unpopular opinion but I was a huge Jade fan. But the real ''gem''' of her reign was Fall/Winter 2009. The pacing was right and the storylines were interesting to me. Emily's egg being used and Hunter being her son was cool (why drop him?), Meg going crazy was the most interesting she had been, Henry being James' son was too contrived but the story surrounding it was nice (I'll never forget the car-window scene with Barbara and Emily), and of course Brad's death was,  I have to admit, pretty well written.

Edited by Markjeh

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1 hour ago, Soapsuds said:

Jean apparently does read comments about her online. So she knows we've called her a hack. Same with Tom Jack Rabbit Casiello and apparently he doesn't give a damn. Again he looked so dirty today.

 

So Tom knows how much we treasured incredible lines like "Cut the crap!"?

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13 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

So Tom knows how much we treasured incredible lines like "Cut the crap!"?

I'm sure he does. He was gloating more about stories/direction of character that most fans hated but he loved. He made it known that he didn't care his likes weren't popular. Any wonder ATWT went down the tubes with these idiots in charge?

Edited by Soapsuds

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1 hour ago, Markjeh said:

I thought JP's work on ATWT was overall really bad. 2005 was just a horrible year imo and I only found out later that's when she started. The organ story with Keith and Lily was terrible. Carly having a never-seen before sister in Gwen was so random and not convincing. The BJ Green story was terrible. A very lackluster year.

 

Early 2006 was pretty good with the big Emily story and Luke's coming out. Probably very unpopular opinion but I was a huge Jade fan. But the real ''gem''' of her reign was Fall/Winter 2009. The pacing was right and the storylines were interesting to me. Emily's egg being used and Hunter being her son was cool (why drop him?), Meg going crazy was the most interesting she had been, Henry being James' son was too contrived but the story surrounding it was nice (I'll never forget the car-window scene with Barbara and Emily), and of course Brad's death was,  I have to admit, pretty well written.

After reading all this I had forgotten how really horrific ATWT was at the end.

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Jean basically confirms to me what what I always felt about her - she's a f.ucking puppet that will do what her network or EP tells her to do or write. Zero creativity, passion, or intellect involved. 

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@Markjeh I loved Jade too! Elena Goode I think was the first Jade. The only problem I had was not doing more with her. She was great! 
 

Also I know it’s unpopular, but I loved Hunt Block as Craig. He was my original Craig and why I started watching because I liked him on Knots Landing. When I saw her was on ATWT I started watching. Previously I only watched Y&R. I do love Scott Bryce though and was so disappointed with his return and firing. I’m glad Dansby mentioned how poor the writing was for his return. 

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Jean was a network employee before she became a soap writer. She was with ABC's writer's development program.  Like McTavish and Higley, Jean was constantly hired because she was the associate head writer to whomever was exec producer of each show she worked on.  At NBC, she and Laiman were hired to replace Culliton because he wouldn't bow to network pressure.  Goutman had her wrapped around his uncreative middle finger.  I think ABC had hopes that she'd be a good Nixon trainee but she didn't have the chops which is why she ended up being a P&G hack.  Y&R hired her for the same reason. Phelps was the head writer, along with Kent and McDaniel, no doubt.

 

Tom C was Hoagie's assistant. Hogan promoted to breakdown writer whomever (as an assistant) helped him turn in outlines (there was another Tom and Meg Kelly). Read Tom's eulogy after Hogan's death to find out how their relationship developed.

 

 

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I forgot how fantastic Bryant’s death storyline was. I cried for 5 days in a row. One of the best conceived and executed storylines from the writers to the actors. Perfection. And crazy Julia. Annie Parisse is a beloved NYC actor and it was so great watching her descent into madness. Looked forward to every time she’d come back. Until, like James S. she came back one too many times. Am loving this chat with the writers. 

As I continue to watch this, it’s clear that Jean wanted to use the history characters more but it all came down to money. The producers wouldn’t let them write for certain characters because they cost too much money due to their longevity on the show. So much great information in this and making me see its final years in a completely different light. I loved the show under Sheffer - one of the great head writers of all time - but found it hit and miss from 2005-2010. I think they ultimately brought the show to an incredibly satisfying and emotional conclusion. I still cry when I watch that final episode. 

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GL brought back some favorites in the last weeks of its run..so I'm sure with Atwt it wasn't just money.

 

Sheffer was nowhere near Marland's level..and Tom/jean putting him on his level said all that needed to be said.

 

Victoria Rowell was right to rave about Susan Dansby years ago on Twitter.  She seemed intelligent and more vocal about what was wrong with soaps.

 

I wish the 4th panelist Charlotte was given more time to speak.

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6 hours ago, Markjeh said:

I thought JP's work on ATWT was overall really bad. 2005 was just a horrible year imo and I only found out later that's when she started. The organ story with Keith and Lily was terrible. Carly having a never-seen before sister in Gwen was so random and not convincing. The BJ Green story was terrible. A very lackluster year.

 

Early 2006 was pretty good with the big Emily story and Luke's coming out. Probably very unpopular opinion but I was a huge Jade fan. But the real ''gem''' of her reign was Fall/Winter 2009. The pacing was right and the storylines were interesting to me. Emily's egg being used and Hunter being her son was cool (why drop him?), Meg going crazy was the most interesting she had been, Henry being James' son was too contrived but the story surrounding it was nice (I'll never forget the car-window scene with Barbara and Emily), and of course Brad's death was,  I have to admit, pretty well written.

Agreed with nearly all of those points. I thought the show really went downhill after Sheffer left in early 2005. Every time I tried to turn in during that period, I kept seeing mind-numbingly dull Paul-Meg-Dusty storylines, or not-so-interesting drama surrounding Carly's insta-sister Gwen, or CarJack stuck in the same never-ending cycle of break-ups and make-ups.

 

The period you mention around late 2009 was MUCH better, and significantly, that's when David Kreizman joined as co-head writer. I know that a lot of SON regulars like to blame Kreizman for GL's problems in later years, but I think he's very good at developing character-driven storylines. And developing characters generally: I'd be surprised if Reid wasn't a Kreizman creation. 

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