As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Soapsuds]

How about when Nancy's passing became all about Katie? That was just horrendous!

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

So I have a question since I stopped watching the show after Martha Byrne left. Was Nancy's death filmed as a special episode? Did it pre-empt an episode that had already been filmed? I am reading things that there is a lost episode, and I am guessing it's because they pulled something to make room for Nancy's death. Did the Hughes family have a funeral for her? How was it written in? Thanks in advance for any clarification.

[All My Shadows]

There is a big difference between a character having a bigger presence than one should have and having an episode be "all about" that character. IIRC, the biggest faux pas about it was that the episode closed on a Katie/Nancy flashback and then a shot of Katie by herself. Most of the episode was about all of the characters remembering Nancy.

ETA: I just glanced through the episode and she was on for 5-10 minutes, almost all of it shared with Chris, and a good bit of it as ensemble scenes with the Hughes family. Whether that's too much or not too much is a matter of personal opinion, but that one episode doesn't change the stats on the bigger picture.

Edited June 24, 2018 by All My Shadows

[DramatistDreamer]

 

I had stopped watching too but isn't that episode posted on You Tube somewhere?  I feel as if I saw it.  I don't believe there was a funeral.  I was surprised at how minimal it all was given Helen Wagner's long tenure and Nancy Hughes' overall impact on the show.  The soaps always hide behind budget when they are called out for doing the least but they could've done better than what they did.   

 

Also what I could never understand was, given the fact that TPTB knew that they had declining ratings and there were other P&G soaps that had recently been canceled over the last several years and given the age of the actress, why couldn't they take the time to film brief scene, in advance, of Nancy saying "Good night, Bob".  It made sense, since she delivered the first lines "Good morning, Bob".  Once the actress hit 90 years of age, they should've made some type of plans.  They could've added it as a part of a tribute and part of the show's final episode. 

I was really mad at ATWT for not bothering to think ahead.  Then again, that had become the show's M.O. in their last decade-no respect for the show's history and no foresight for what could happen in the future.

Edited June 24, 2018 by DramatistDreamer

[victoria foxton]

 

[DramatistDreamer]

That seemed very detached compared to the episode they did for Chris Hughes.  I'm surprised at how cool Bob was.  When Don McLaughlin passed, he was choking back tears, it felt so genuine.

Nancy was on longer, her episode should've consisted of more than a cluster gathering of black clad characters in small room but these were the waning days, the show had probably been packing up the set, so it was what it was.

 

I'm indifferent to the Katie character but I wouldn't blame her for taking the focus from Nancy.  If anyone did that it was Chris' ridiculous story.

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

I was trying to figure out why I stopped watching but I think it had to do with Martha's exit and I couldn't get used to the new Lily. Also a lot of the veteran actors were not used enough and when they appeared they were typically in the background. And some of the new couples front and center were ones I couldn't warm up to. Also I loved Scott Bryce as Craig and was disappointed when they let him go (in 2008).

[Soapsuds]

Goutman fired both Martha and Scott. The actress took over the role said she would step aside if they wanted to bring Martha back for the ending but Goutman refused.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Soapsuds

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Yes, I just watched this on YouTube (thank you victoria foxton) and the stuff with Chris was kind of an emotional downer.

 

 

Goutman definitely should have brought Martha back as Lily at the end. It would have been nice to see her and Liz Hubbard acting together on screen again.

Edited June 24, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

So which actors probably had the most appearances between 1956 and 2010?

 

My guess is these people:

 

Don Hastings (Never took time off from the show like Eileen Fulton did; front burner in the 60s and 70s; Marland gave him big stories in the 80s and early 90s. A bit of a slow period in the mid to late 90s, but Sheffer used him, most memorably in the Dr. Dekker story, and in the show's final years he was still a major presence with screen time.)

Eileen Fulton (Despite a few departures, which were usually not more than a year or two, she drove the main storylines in the 60s and 70s. And she was still featured a lot in the 80s and 90s. Though she was still on contract she seemed more like a glorified recurring cast member in the last years of the show.)

Kathryn Hays (Front burner in the 70s and 80s, still used often in the 90s and 2000s. If Kim hadn't married Bob, she might not have lasted.)

Patricia Bruder (She once told an interviewer that Ellen was on the front burner for the first 15 years; from the mid-70s on she was more of a supporting player but still had frequent appearances; Marland didn't know what to do with her especially after he killed David off but he still put her in group scenes. After Marland's death the subsequent writing teams seldom used her and by 1995 she was gone, though she made a brief reappearance in '98. Ellen was totally forgotten in the 2000s, never mentioned anymore by Emily or Susan. But from 1960 to 1995 she made a substantial contribution to the show and I think she was probably in a large number of episodes.)

Colleen Zenk (Never without a storyline from her arrival in 1978 to 2010. Her maternity leaves were usually short. Marland and Sheffer both used her as a lead antagonist in multiple storylines. She never had a replacement for illness.)

Martha Byrne (Despite a two-or-three-year gap when Heather Rattray took over in the early 90s, she always had a lot of story; and later played a dual role for several years.)

Elizabeth Hubbard (They wrote her out in the late 90s for awhile but she was soon back on the show again. Sheffer did not write for her, that was her only slow period. Marland wrote constantly for her.)

Scott Holmes (Major storylines from 1987 to 2000. Sheffer did not write much for him but in the later part of the 2000s Passanante did feature him more often.)

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[Soaplovers]

I was happy Martha was fired, I actually never liked her playing Lily whatsoever.  The only times I liked Lily was when anyone other than Martha was playing the character.  Anytime when Martha was playing the character, I was rooting for Lucinda to disown the little brat so she'd be free of her.. and than Princess Lily could go live with those hideous Snyders at the farm.

 

Speaking of propping characters, did anyone think that even Marland was guilty of propping characters (Lily, for instance... and rapist/pedophile Rod/Josh)?

[DramatistDreamer]

 

The Luke effect.  Unfortunately,  General Hospital found success with turning a rapist into a leading man (I still can't figure out how people accepted that) so it opened the path for other soaps' attempts at it.  I wish I could say that it stopped at Luke but we know from Roger Howarth's character on OLTL, that that  unfortunate "phenomenon" continued.

 

Martha Byrne's Lily was what happens when the teen scene is so small, Lily became an avatar for every 80s teen scenario involving a self-absorbed whiny angsty young woman.  The Molly Ringwald effect or whatever characters Molly Ringwald kept playing during the 1980s.  It wouldn't have been so bad if there were other teens, particularly teen girls on the show (other than Meg, who didn't stay a teen for long).  Having all these adults going to a teen's birthday/graduation party struck me as ridiculous.  This was also done for Dusty and Meg.  I think though that Lily was supposed to represent all the fragility of a sheltered, self-absorbed poor little rich girl but it often got to be a bit much.  

 

One reason why I'm always more interested to hear from writers because I'd love to know how many of these stories/characters were by the writers' hand and how much might have been pushed by executives with clipboard in hand citing market research.

 

[All My Shadows]

 

I wouldn’t count Helen Wagner out. I would imagine she was seen at least three or four times a week in the B/W years and only slightly less through the 70s.

 

Jon Hensley and Liz Hubbard might rank higher than Scott Holmes.

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

I thought about Hensley but he took some time off during the later part of Marland's tenure. Can't remember how long that absence was but yes I'm sure his total count is up there. I included Hubbard in my earlier post. Helen Wagner probably did have a lot of screen time in the early years but at one point Irna Phillips was going to fire her, so I don't think Irna always used her. And she was taken off contract for a few years in the early 80s. Marland certainly used her. But she never had a storyline again after Dan's death in 1996. So her last ten plus years her appearances were significantly reduced.

 

Marland propped up a lot of characters (he was close friends with many of the cast members). So it wasn't just Lily and Josh. But I agree with the earlier comment that Lily became an "avatar" for all the under-18 stories. She was like Shirley Temple and Molly Ringwald rolled into one during those early years. The poor little rich girl experiencing growing pains.

Edited June 24, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[Paul Raven]

Helen was off for a short time in her first year,but I believe Nancy was used heavily throughout the 60's and 70's.

 

Rosemary Prinz would have been featured heavily in her 13 years on the show. Penny had 3 marriages in that time and plenty of angst.