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So what is this fight Tamra and Gretchen had? Who was right? And the one between Vicki and Tamra – did Tamra really show Vicki the door?

Tamra and Gretchen's feud started since Gretchen joined in S4. IMO, a lot of it came from Tamra being jealous of Gretchen, who was younger and seemed to take over the Hottest, Youngest Housewife title Tamra so loved.

Accusations flew of Gretchen being a gold-digger, a paid caretaker for Jeff (Gretchen's fianceé, who died in 2008).

At the reunion for S4, Tamra revealed that Gretchen's ex-boyfriend had called her and told her Gretchen was still seeing him while Jeff was still alive, etc.

Gretchen denied it, Tamra swore up and down it was true.

S5 was a continuation of S4, in that regard, but a lot more passive aggressive.

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Tamra and Gretchen's feud started since Gretchen joined in S4. IMO, a lot of it came from Tamra being jealous of Gretchen, who was younger and seemed to take over the Hottest, Youngest Housewife title Tamra so loved.

Accusations flew of Gretchen being a gold-digger, a paid caretaker for Jeff (Gretchen's fianceé, who died in 2008).

At the reunion for S4, Tamra revealed that Gretchen's ex-boyfriend had called her and told her Gretchen was still seeing him while Jeff was still alive, etc.

Gretchen denied it, Tamra swore up and down it was true.

S5 was a continuation of S4, in that regard, but a lot more passive aggressive.

Wow, wow, wow. Thank you, WTGH, for filling me in on that.

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Bravo put up a new Season 4 preview for NYC:

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-4/videos/return-to-the-big-apple

Looks like it'll be good! Blondes vs. Brunettes!

omg, I cant beleive they put this on hold for Miami. This looks SOOOOO good.

AND -

The Salahis are just ridiculous. They were asked to leave Celebrity Rehab because they have no real addiction! hahahaha

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/briefs/articles/90039124?White%20House%20party%20crasher%20Michaele%20Salahi%20asked%20to%20leave%20%26quot%3BCelebrity%20Rehab%26quot%3B

They are addicted to attention!

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^Also add that Vicki and Tamra teamed up in S5 because they both hate Slade and think he is repulsive for being a serial OC Housewife dater. Of course Slade and Gretchen didn't like that.

But Vicki was also a wedge between Simon and Tamra's marriage. Simon hated the show and how Tamra is fake BFFs with Vicki, who doesn't like Simon's control over Tamra (Vicki never lets men control her - she's always in control).

Also Vicki doesn't like Alexis or her husband's control over her, so there is a feud there... so sides were drawn.

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Continuing to make my way through Jersey episodes everyone else in the world has already seen...

Something I enjoy in these early episodes, and I hope continues, is they have the fun and melancholy family moments alongside the drama. I think it is very balanced editing and I like that it isn't all about hysteria and misery. The time I am most interested in Dina is when she is with her daughter - they have such an interesting relationship and it makes her endless loop of "Should I stop being a party planner to the stars" less stale. Aside from her participation in the episode where Theresa got implants I generally don't care for her in the group scenes.

Theresa on the other hand I prefer in the group scenes, mostly because I just think, although she has nice kids, the family scenes are too cutesy and she is also too put-on. I also continue to feel like she is not quite the angel she presents herself to be. One thing that annoyed me was when at the notorious table-throwing dinner, she was VERY loudly saying VERY crude sexual comments (how she is "sore" and on and on) in front of the children, yet only thought about the children when Danielle confronted them over the book. But I do enjoy Theresa in the group scenes and the plastic surgery story was much better than I had expected - it was balanced and the show seems to try to make sure viewers get the chance to hear some who caution against plastic surgery as well as those who are fond of it.

Do you think that knowing what will happen in advance spoils the story for you, or enhances it? When I see Theresa in her dream house and going on about money I remember that her husband has money problems now (do they still have the house?). I'm not sure whether I am more interested or less because I know what happens. I think in the case of Jacqueline's daughter I wish I didn't know because when I see the story about their conflict and the car I just keep waiting for the stuff where she attacks Danielle, or whatever.

Speaking of Jacqueline, I do like her, and her parents, and I think she's a nice person who sometimes has some fire, but I was really uncomfortable with the whole business about the photo shoot and how her daughter wasn't appreciative enough about the photos and she could be a model or actress if she wanted to do this and why wasn't she more appreciative and so on. I had to actually fast forward some of this. It just felt very stage mother to me. Did the daughter ever want any of this?

Was that THE Bernie Kerik with Caroline and her family? I enjoy everything with them, and just her presence in general. I can see that some of the mother hen role is an act and she has her flaws but she's just great to watch. She has a natural charisma about her and some good one-liners. So do her family. I loved when her son Albie called Danielle, "goldfish cha-cha."

The dance class stuff was interesting for several reasons. I laughed when Theresa claimed her husband wanted to learn to dance, and then you see him walking into the studio, clearly uncomfortable. This, like the dinner that led to the table-throwing, must have been all set up by the producers. It was fascinating the whole mess of Danielle calling Theresa's husband out for homophobic comments. Did she really care or did she just want a reaction? It was refreshing to see someone not put up with the type of casual homophobia that is so commonplace, but she was so cold about it that she wasn't exactly going to change his mind. I also couldn't help laughing about his comments because he is the type of guy who would probably become popular with some gay men.

Everything with the book became tired as we saw the same clips over and over and Danielle's notable absence from most of the group did not help (that scene where her longtime friend awkwardly served as her exposition person was kind of painful to watch), but I did love the big blowup. That's the type of thing you can't fake, and again, it was surprisingly balanced. Danielle is clearly not someone you'd necessarily want to be around but it wasn't evil Danielle and good Dina. Danielle's scenes with her kids were fairly interesting, although it comes across somewhat as who is the parent and who is the child. The only stuff I disliked was the breakup with Mr. 26 going on 62. Come on!

What role did Danielle have on AMC? Was she an under five?

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Oh, and I finally realized what those little pictures/titles at the bottom announcing the story is moving to another housewife remind me of. Did any of you ever play a video game, I think it was on Sega Genesis, where you play poltergeists who haunt the residents of a mansion? In the game they would have little boxes and pictures sort of similar (although with worse graphics obviously) when they would show each person in the house as they were being scared.

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As for Danielle and her reaction to the "homophobic" comment, the bitch is a damn hypocrite bc as you will see in season 2, her friend Danny says the same homophobic slur but in a malicious and hateful manner and doesnt come down on him. What Joe said was a joke and it wasnt meant to be hurtful. Might not have been politically correct, but there was no malice on his part. Danny on the other hand, did have that. She got called out on this and she should have especially after the big reaction she had in S1

Danielle was an under5 on AMC. She had a scene with Jack. I saw clips of it online somewhere. Good thing someone told me it was her, bc her face is barely recognizable

Edited by Cheap21

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Yeah, I'm not too surprised by that. The scene came across more as Danielle wanting to control things/get camera time than any real moral objection.

Repeated comments like Joe's (he made at least three throughout the evening) probably aren't intended to hurt, but they can...but she just handled it in such a cold way and her type of reaction is likely to make someone make even more comments.

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^Also add that Vicki and Tamra teamed up in S5 because they both hate Slade and think he is repulsive for being a serial OC Housewife dater. Of course Slade and Gretchen didn't like that.

But Vicki was also a wedge between Simon and Tamra's marriage. Simon hated the show and how Tamra is fake BFFs with Vicki, who doesn't like Simon's control over Tamra (Vicki never lets men control her - she's always in control).

Also Vicki doesn't like Alexis or her husband's control over her, so there is a feud there... so sides were drawn.

So, basically, Gretchen really did things Tamra accuses her of and Tamra is still a nasty b!tch faking her friendship with Vicki? Who else did Slade date?

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Slade has dated Jo, Laurie, and now Gretchen. He denies dating Laurie even though there are pictures of the two together smiling and kissing, and Jo even caught them out...He claims he never ever even went anywhere with her, only further proving he's a [[email protected]#$%^&*] liar and slime ball.

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Thank you, Antoyne. :)

BTW, I just bumped onto Andy Cohen on Colbert – he plays Bethenny, Colbert is Kelly:

<div style="background-color:#000000;width:520px;"><div style="padding:4px;"><embed src="http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:video:colbertnation.com:341503" width="512" height="288" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" base="." flashVars=""></embed></div></div>

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I love, LOVE Andy Cohen (outside of WWHL and the reunion shows). :wub:

For an instant, I got excited when he mentioned DC was next...then I realized this is an old show. :(

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I love, LOVE Andy Cohen (outside of WWHL and the reunion shows). :wub:

For an instant, I got excited when he mentioned DC was next...then I realized this is an old show. :(

Yeah, he's not very good at interviewing and doing his own show. It's all much better when he's a guest.

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