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When Erika was detailing her woes this episode, it took me back to the reunion where LVP didn't show, and Erika sneered "Get off the cross, they need the wood."

The way the Coven was hugging and crying over Erika made me wonder if they just love her more and consider her their BFF... or if they just want to be seen to be caring friends after everything that went down last year.

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6 hours ago, Liberty City said:

And that's exactly it: the problem is not Eboni. It is the women around her. Out of Luann, Ramona and Sonja, the only one that has actually heard her is Sonja. Hell, even I think Heather heard her... even though I think Heather just couldn't keep her mouth shut about some things. 

Ironically enough, Eboni mentioned on her last WWHL appearance that he’d and Heather are now friends and talk regularly.
 

RHOBH:

This Erika story about Tom and the car was SO ridiculous that I’m not surprised the women are questioning her like they are. Sutton said that’s what started her questioning things because she truly was confused and didn’t know what was going on. I happen to believe her. 

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On 7/22/2021 at 1:33 PM, Liberty City said:

Here's my thing: Luann was never an alcoholic, and I truly believe if she hadn't have needed to be sober for her probation, she would not have been. Like Bethenny said, she dined out on her "sobriety," and she can deny doing so all she wants, but that is EXACTLY what she did.
I don't want to downplay Luann's relationship with alcohol, because we truly are not her, but judging from what we've seen and how easily she drank last season, I don't believe she is an alcoholic. We've seen her function plenty of times on booze... Leah and Sonja we have not.
Leah I DO applaud for keeping herself available and present around the women when they drink, and I do believe it is because she had several years of sobriety prior to last season (15 years... I believe?).

Bethenny was the true definition of the H.B.I.C., but I genuinely don't believe she wants to come back, especially with the current cast, and I do believe part of that is both Luann and Ramona.
I'd like to see both Eboni and Leah stay, regardless of Bethenny returning, especially since Bethenny was supposed to be how Leah was introduced into the group (and later redirected to Tinsley).
So, it would be, for me: Bethenny, Dorinda, Eboni, Leah, Sonja and two-more housewives. This franchise thrives with a six-plus group of women. Having five this season is part of its issue.
As for Jill Zarin, she's gone on record she would not return full-time, nor do I believe Andy Cohen would return her full-time, especially after what happened... I'm surprised she's even appeared in a friend capacity.

 

My view is that Luann was never quite an alcoholic, but she was self-medicating with alcohol (that and the fact that RHONY between S5-S12 is always well-lubricated as a matter of course). Because she committed a misdemeanor (or whatever it was) on the back of alcohol, she had to show the courts that she was taking steps to deal with her drinking.

In this last episode, she also mentioned that her father was an alcoholic. I wonder if she is worried that she might have a genetic propensity for alcohol and maybe that is why she has these 'dry' periods. I do think she struggles in those dry times, though.

Re: the great Who Should Stay, Who Should Go RHONY debate, I think all the current cast should stay as they all have something to offer (yes, even Leah). The cast is too small, though, and needs organic additions like Dorinda and others.

 

14 hours ago, Chris B said:

Ironically enough, Eboni mentioned on her last WWHL appearance that he’d and Heather are now friends and talk regularly.

Another reason I wish Heather would have stayed on the show this season!

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2 hours ago, Cat said:

Re: the great Who Should Stay, Who Should Go RHONY debate, I think all the current cast should stay as they all have something to offer (yes, even Leah). The cast is too small, though, and needs organic additions like Dorinda and others.

I agree with that. I wouldn't shed a tear if Leah went and I prefer people who are actually friends but I think it is more a problem of adding than substracting at this point.
Noone strikes me as dead weight - I may dislike the newish ones but they are bringing stuff to the table. Housewives should only be cut when they have nothing to bring. 
Of course we might argue that if what they bring is fakery and artificial, what's the point? But I'd focus first on who to bring back.

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This Erika situation is such a clusterf.  At the dinner at Kyle's house, I don't even think she was being phony.  To me, it seemed like she was so overwhelmed that she was stream-of-consciousness-ing her thoughts. which is why it was so all over the place.  What it does feel like, though, is that right now, she's using the "Tom was mentally unfit" argument to explain his actions that she's being held accountable for.  Even if Tom IS mentally unfit, his actions can't be explained away by that premise--he still stole millions and millions of dollars from his clients, who were victims of horrific disasters.  That's purposeful and shows intent.  It's not like he accidentally moved funds to the wrong place, because then the $$ would be somewhere and they could pay.  He was obviously broke because of their INSANE lifestyle and (unnecessarily) high business costs and stole to keep the ruse going.  Who knows how long he's even been doing this.  That man is as wicked as they come.  Erika should be showing limitless empathy for Tom's victims, but maybe she thinks if she does that, she'd be held more liable when it comes time for the court to decide how they're going to rectify this.  I know she needs the Bravo check now, but she really should have broken her contract and quit because she is coming off horribly and this is all going to be used against her.  And I don't see how Bravo can do anything other then cut ties with her moving forward.  He S11 paycheck better be worth it for her!

 

Re. LuAnn's alcoholism: if addiction is measured by consequences, then LuAnn is an alcoholic.  She was in a toxic, alcohol-soaked relationship/marriage that instantly imploded; she had a drunk mishap at the Palm Beach hotel which resulted in her arrest and threatening a police officer; she couldn't stay sober during her probation and made such poor choices that led to her kids suing her and she needed an intervention; etc.  She's definitely a binge drinker and during summer 2020, she had a wakeup call that after ALL her consequences, she couldn't drink responsibly and was blacking out in public multiple times and that scared her enough to dry out.  It's really difficult for her, because she obviously enjoys being drunk and she's usually ok, but she can't help herself from binge drinking and it scares her . . . it's an internal war and I have a lot of empathy for her and can really relate to her on this issue.  I doubt her sobriety will be permanent because she clearly still isn't at the point where she WANTS to stop drinking.  And not only was her father an alcoholic but it's been heavily implied that her daughter is, too.  And reports say she isn't on good terms with her son.  She's very lucky that she has her brother and his twin daughters that she's so close with because her personal life has always been such a mess.  LuAnn is a real enigma and she's definitely one of the most interesting hws NY has had, she just can't get out of her own way with her pride and delusions of grandeur.

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4 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

I agree with that. I wouldn't shed a tear if Leah went and I prefer people who are actually friends but I think it is more a problem of adding than substracting at this point.
Noone strikes me as dead weight - I may dislike the newish ones but they are bringing stuff to the table. Housewives should only be cut when they have nothing to bring. 
Of course we might argue that if what they bring is fakery and artificial, what's the point? But I'd focus first on who to bring back.

I can't remember which writer said this, but it was along the lines of: "I may not write the story you want, but I always write the story you need." If we extrapolate this to RHs, well, my mind immediately goes to Kenya. I may not like her, but I recognise that I need her on the show. With RHONY, I think the 6 current HWs (im counting Bershan) offer something different and are needed. As you say, those who bring nothing need not apply.

 

2 hours ago, DynamiteKiddo said:

This Erika situation is such a clusterf.  At the dinner at Kyle's house, I don't even think she was being phony.  To me, it seemed like she was so overwhelmed that she was stream-of-consciousness-ing her thoughts. which is why it was so all over the place.  What it does feel like, though, is that right now, she's using the "Tom was mentally unfit" argument to explain his actions that she's being held accountable for.  Even if Tom IS mentally unfit, his actions can't be explained away by that premise--he still stole millions and millions of dollars from his clients, who were victims of horrific disasters.  That's purposeful and shows intent.  It's not like he accidentally moved funds to the wrong place, because then the $$ would be somewhere and they could pay.  He was obviously broke because of their INSANE lifestyle and (unnecessarily) high business costs and stole to keep the ruse going.  Who knows how long he's even been doing this.  That man is as wicked as they come.  Erika should be showing limitless empathy for Tom's victims, but maybe she thinks if she does that, she'd be held more liable when it comes time for the court to decide how they're going to rectify this.  I know she needs the Bravo check now, but she really should have broken her contract and quit because she is coming off horribly and this is all going to be used against her.  And I don't see how Bravo can do anything other then cut ties with her moving forward.  He S11 paycheck better be worth it for her!

 

Re. LuAnn's alcoholism: if addiction is measured by consequences, then LuAnn is an alcoholic.  She was in a toxic, alcohol-soaked relationship/marriage that instantly imploded; she had a drunk mishap at the Palm Beach hotel which resulted in her arrest and threatening a police officer; she couldn't stay sober during her probation and made such poor choices that led to her kids suing her and she needed an intervention; etc.  She's definitely a binge drinker and during summer 2020, she had a wakeup call that after ALL her consequences, she couldn't drink responsibly and was blacking out in public multiple times and that scared her enough to dry out.  It's really difficult for her, because she obviously enjoys being drunk and she's usually ok, but she can't help herself from binge drinking and it scares her . . . it's an internal war and I have a lot of empathy for her and can really relate to her on this issue.  I doubt her sobriety will be permanent because she clearly still isn't at the point where she WANTS to stop drinking.  And not only was her father an alcoholic but it's been heavily implied that her daughter is, too.  And reports say she isn't on good terms with her son.  She's very lucky that she has her brother and his twin daughters that she's so close with because her personal life has always been such a mess.  LuAnn is a real enigma and she's definitely one of the most interesting hws NY has had, she just can't get out of her own way with her pride and delusions of grandeur.

Agree with you on both counts! Tom is wicked as can be.

Regarding Luann, I think you really described perfectly this HW and why I, also, feel fascination and empathy towards her, even when she's at her most deluded. She is an enigma, as you say. You also spilled some tea that I wasn't aware of, namely the depth of her struggle with alcohol, and that Victoria might also struggle with it (making me wonder if the addiction is inherited), and that she's on the outs with Noel. 

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2 hours ago, DynamiteKiddo said:

Erika should be showing limitless empathy for Tom's victims, but maybe she thinks if she does that, she'd be held more liable when it comes time for the court to decide how they're going to rectify this.  

I am really struck that she is not even trying to *fake* even empty words of empathy. I mean that would be the most basic starting point for PR and staying sympathetic.
My theory as to why she can't bring herself to do that is less charitable than yours (which is weird considering what I was saying a few days ago but not contradictory).
I think she can't emphatize with them because she is indignant they are doing that to *her*. It is the narcissism talking: *they* are ruining her life, embarrassing her, taking her money from her, ruining her life plan.  She sees herself as the ultimate victim in all this. She probably thinks - even assuming she wasn't in on Tom's scam - that the victims just lost some money, they'll get over it while she feels her whole life is crumbling.
Suffice it to say it is incredibly off-putting and ugly but it is also human in a way which goes to what I was saying about trying to put ourselves in her shoes and how her pain may be sincere.
It may come from a place of narcissism but it doesn't mean it is not real.

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So, I've never watched a RH episode in my life, but I do see the infamous clips on social media and read through this thread and I have to ask, this Sutton lady ... does she do anything but cry? I have no idea if she's a favourite or not, but I do know that I hate her. 

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8 hours ago, Cat said:

My view is that Luann was never quite an alcoholic, but she was self-medicating with alcohol (that and the fact that RHONY between S5-S12 is always well-lubricated as a matter of course). Because she committed a misdemeanor (or whatever it was) on the back of alcohol, she had to show the courts that she was taking steps to deal with her drinking.

Oh, she was definitely self-medicating, but not in the way of an alcoholic. She clearly had too much, got arrested and threatened a police officer.
Again, I don't want to say or downplay what she is or she isn't, but, based on what I've seen (via the show) she does not read an alcoholic to me in the same way others do.

8 hours ago, Cat said:

Re: the great Who Should Stay, Who Should Go RHONY debate, I think all the current cast should stay as they all have something to offer (yes, even Leah). The cast is too small, though, and needs organic additions like Dorinda and others.

I think the problem is there are too few housewives this season; as proven during the seven season, this franchise thrives with a large amount of housewives. Five housewives for RHONYC? Not enough.

16 minutes ago, Bright Eyes said:

So, I've never watched a RH episode in my life, but I do see the infamous clips on social media and read through this thread and I have to ask, this Sutton lady ... does she do anything but cry? I have no idea if she's a favourite or not, but I do know that I hate her. 

I know people wanted her as a full-time housewife when she was a "friend," but have not watched RHOBH for years, so... I don't even know.

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1 hour ago, Bright Eyes said:

So, I've never watched a RH episode in my life, but I do see the infamous clips on social media and read through this thread and I have to ask, this Sutton lady ... does she do anything but cry? I have no idea if she's a favourite or not, but I do know that I hate her. 

Sutton is iconic! She’s very shy and socially awkward and dresses horribly, but she’s very likable. She does cry in confrontation though. She’s an easy target because she isn’t a fighter, but she doesn’t give up which I like. She’s the comedic relief I’d say. 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

I am really struck that she is not even trying to *fake* even empty words of empathy. I mean that would be the most basic starting point for PR and staying sympathetic.
My theory as to why she can't bring herself to do that is less charitable than yours (which is weird considering what I was saying a few days ago but not contradictory).
I think she can't emphatize with them because she is indignant they are doing that to *her*. It is the narcissism talking: *they* are ruining her life, embarrassing her, taking her money from her, ruining her life plan.  She sees herself as the ultimate victim in all this. She probably thinks - even assuming she wasn't in on Tom's scam - that the victims just lost some money, they'll get over it while she feels her whole life is crumbling.
Suffice it to say it is incredibly off-putting and ugly but it is also human in a way which goes to what I was saying about trying to put ourselves in her shoes and how her pain may be sincere.
It may come from a place of narcissism but it doesn't mean it is not real.

Not ruling out that there isn't pure narcissism going on here -- she has surrounded herself with sycophants, and anyone on BH who didn't worship at that altar either had to change their tune (Dorit, Teddi) or get out (LVP, Denise).

But I'm starting to wonder now if there is something else more calculated going on. 

Did you know that this La Quinta episode in real time was when Erika put Tom's cheating with Justice Tricia Bigelow on blast on her IG? People were like, oh she must have been so wasted to have done something so sloppy. She's going to get her ass sued! But judging by her demeanour this episode, I believe she was cool, calm, collected, and knew what she was doing. Which was using 20-year old text messages to drive the narrative of Tom cheating on the marriage. To keep the focus on the marriage. This whole season of BH thus far has been talking about the marriage and Erika leaving him, like that's the real crime here. Not one mention of the V word -- victims.

Now it could be that her lawyers told her not to make any statements about the victims so as not to implicate herself. That is not stopping her from talking about other sh!t on BH or Twitter. And honestly, does Erika strike you as a careless, reckless woman? Not to me she doesn't. I feel like the way she stirs up BH Twitter every week like clockwork, the story she is pushing on the show about Starting Over -- all of that looks carefully laid out and calculated. She's stirring up social media to detract from the detail of the lawsuits. Publishing Tom's texts serves as a timestamp (i.e. coinciding with when she told the other women about what her marriage was like). 

But zero mention of $20mn wired to Erika Jayne Global (supposedly weeks before she filed for divorce?). Nor an explanation as to how she affords a sizeable rent on that bungalow in Hancock Park. And certainly nothing about the burn victims or orphans and widows of the Lion Air crash. 

The problem for Erika is that the BH audience just does not believe her. The basic facts of the case are far more embedded in viewers' minds (like the $20mn) than what she's saying on TV. Plus, this new Erika does not match the Erika we have been watching for years. Detached, cold, playing different characters in her VTs, boasting Its Expensive To Be Me, careful, contrived, smart. Suddenly she's emotional and hurt about Tom treating her like she's nothing? It's whiplash. And because there are big stakes here (Federal charges, massive restitution, possible prison), the sudden shift in personality and 'truth-telling' feels staged in order to duck some of these charges.

Edited by Cat
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Chris B said:

Sutton is iconic! She’s very shy and socially awkward and dresses horribly, but she’s very likable. She does cry in confrontation though. She’s an easy target because she isn’t a fighter, but she doesn’t give up which I like. She’s the comedic relief I’d say. 

What Chris said! She may be shy, socially awkward, stuck in her bubble sometimes, and emotional, but these are all flaws i can empathize with, and I like her a lot. She can't help but show who she is, which is a blessed relief on BH where everyone else is so on-guard with their image and what they say.

People talk about Kathy saving the show, but it is Sutton who has brought drama, lightness, and comedy thus far. It may be too soon to call, but Sutton could well be carrying the show on her back this season.

Edited by Cat
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5 hours ago, Cat said:

Not ruling out that there isn't pure narcissism going on here -- she has surrounded herself with sycophants, and anyone on BH who didn't worship at that altar either had to change their tune (Dorit, Teddi) or get out (LVP, Denise).

But I'm starting to wonder now if there is something else more calculated going on. 

Did you know that this La Quinta episode in real time was when Erika put Tom's cheating with Justice Tricia Bigelow on blast on her IG? People were like, oh she must have been so wasted to have done something so sloppy. She's going to get her ass sued! But judging by her demeanour this episode, I believe she was cool, calm, collected, and knew what she was doing. Which was using 20-year old text messages to drive the narrative of Tom cheating on the marriage. To keep the focus on the marriage. This whole season of BH thus far has been talking about the marriage and Erika leaving him, like that's the real crime here. Not one mention of the V word -- victims.

Now it could be that her lawyers told her not to make any statements about the victims so as not to implicate herself. That is not stopping her from talking about other sh!t on BH or Twitter. And honestly, does Erika strike you as a careless, reckless woman? Not to me she doesn't. I feel like the way she stirs up BH Twitter every week like clockwork, the story she is pushing on the show about Starting Over -- all of that looks carefully laid out and calculated. She's stirring up social media to detract from the detail of the lawsuits. Publishing Tom's texts serves as a timestamp (i.e. coinciding with when she told the other women about what her marriage was like). 

But zero mention of $20mn wired to Erika Jayne Global (supposedly weeks before she filed for divorce?). Nor an explanation as to how she affords a sizeable rent on that bungalow in Hancock Park. And certainly nothing about the burn victims or orphans and widows of the Lion Air crash. 

The problem for Erika is that the BH audience just does not believe her. The basic facts of the case are far more embedded in viewers' minds (like the $20mn) than what she's saying on TV. Plus, this new Erika does not match the Erika we have been watching for years. Detached, cold, playing different characters in her VTs, boasting Its Expensive To Be Me, careful, contrived, smart. Suddenly she's emotional and hurt about Tom treating her like she's nothing? It's whiplash. And because there are big stakes here (Federal charges, massive restitution, possible prison), the sudden shift in personality and 'truth-telling' feels staged in order to duck some of these charges.

Coming up for air to say +1.

 

There is a reason while she gets pictures from me. And that reason is that it is clear she is ACTING. And that is VERY clear on other medias. So how can one watch the show without a bit of side-eye. And then you add on the actual timeline of when things were going down real time last year and that becomes even more true.

 

I also agree with @Chris Bon Sutton. While she can be frustrating at times this season, I cannot say that she has not been real. She is definitely proving she is a good addition. 

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4 hours ago, Taoboi said:

Coming up for air to say +1.

Love that you popped back in, even for a few minutes! Take care of yourself, and hopefully we will read more of your thoughts on here very soon. 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Cat said:

Not ruling out that there isn't pure narcissism going on here -- she has surrounded herself with sycophants, and anyone on BH who didn't worship at that altar either had to change their tune (Dorit, Teddi) or get out (LVP, Denise).

But I'm starting to wonder now if there is something else more calculated going on. 

Did you know that this La Quinta episode in real time was when Erika put Tom's cheating with Justice Tricia Bigelow on blast on her IG? People were like, oh she must have been so wasted to have done something so sloppy. She's going to get her ass sued! But judging by her demeanour this episode, I believe she was cool, calm, collected, and knew what she was doing. Which was using 20-year old text messages to drive the narrative of Tom cheating on the marriage. To keep the focus on the marriage. This whole season of BH thus far has been talking about the marriage and Erika leaving him, like that's the real crime here. Not one mention of the V word -- victims.

Now it could be that her lawyers told her not to make any statements about the victims so as not to implicate herself. That is not stopping her from talking about other sh!t on BH or Twitter. And honestly, does Erika strike you as a careless, reckless woman? Not to me she doesn't. I feel like the way she stirs up BH Twitter every week like clockwork, the story she is pushing on the show about Starting Over -- all of that looks carefully laid out and calculated. She's stirring up social media to detract from the detail of the lawsuits. Publishing Tom's texts serves as a timestamp (i.e. coinciding with when she told the other women about what her marriage was like). 

But zero mention of $20mn wired to Erika Jayne Global (supposedly weeks before she filed for divorce?). Nor an explanation as to how she affords a sizeable rent on that bungalow in Hancock Park. And certainly nothing about the burn victims or orphans and widows of the Lion Air crash. 

The problem for Erika is that the BH audience just does not believe her. The basic facts of the case are far more embedded in viewers' minds (like the $20mn) than what she's saying on TV. Plus, this new Erika does not match the Erika we have been watching for years. Detached, cold, playing different characters in her VTs, boasting Its Expensive To Be Me, careful, contrived, smart. Suddenly she's emotional and hurt about Tom treating her like she's nothing? It's whiplash. And because there are big stakes here (Federal charges, massive restitution, possible prison), the sudden shift in personality and 'truth-telling' feels staged in order to duck some of these charges.

This is all very compelling and I'd agree your theory is more likely.
But I also think that it is easier to be controlled and calculated when things are going your way; it is not incompatible with letting your emotions cloud your judgement when things come crashing down - while still being smart and calculated over all.
The reason I stick to my current theory that it is probably a mix is because of something you said: the BH audience doesn't believe her. And for her to think she'd fool us when it is SO obvious it would be a much taller order than the current performances she gives, when she doesn't provide any fact or counter-narrative, tells ME that part of her behavior is indeed narcissistic delusion she can still pull it off because she is the victim and, surely, the audience will see it. She doesn't need to engage with the facts in her mind because that's not the point. The point is HER suffering.
She is a smart woman: if she were thinking about this rationally, she'd know she needs a better PR plan than this transparently phony fact-less BS.
Think about that Tom and the car story. That's not someone who is in control of her narrative and knows what she is doing. That is someone who sees herself as the victim and is convinced people will see it this way - even if I don't doubt she is indeed giving a performance to get the audience there like she did to get the audience where she wanted in her previous "personality"

Edited by FrenchBug82
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