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52 minutes ago, zanereed said:

 

That really shows the evolution of Mart Hulswit visually, and within the span of a few years. Actors certainly aged quicker at that time. Although the family photo would likely be from 1972, I assume the top photo is from 1971 or 1972?

 

Actor Jack Betts (in the far left of the top photo) only appeared in 1974, I believe, so the shot must be from that year. 

 

52 minutes ago, zanereed said:

To be fair, Don Stewart also aged quickly from 1968 to the early 1970's, but by around 1975, he looked virtually the same moving forward (someone said hair dye helped with that  ). Even when he came back in 1997 for Mike's brief cameo, Stewart's greying temples were the only notifiable difference . I still can't believe Rausch didn't try to keep Stewart on the show after that.

 

Paul Rauch was not one known to care about long-term, beloved actors and characters. 

 

52 minutes ago, zanereed said:

The ones that always stand out for me were Papa Bauer, Bert Bauer, Mike Bauer, Ed Bauer (Hulswit version), Roger Thorpe, Holly Norris (Garrett version, and she really cemented it after returning in 1988), Gilly Grant, Alan Spaulding (Bernau version), Lucille Wexler, Diane Ballard, Mel Boudreau (was I the only one...?), Rita Stapleton...

 

...and there are more! So, no...I can't keep it under 10, either!

 

A series that spanned 72 years is bound to have a huge number of memorable characters. My top 10 favorites (if I were forced to limit the list to only 10) would probably be (in no specific order): Papa Bauer, Bert Bauer, Meta Bauer, Bill Bauer, Ed Bauer (Hulswit), Mike Bauer, Maureen Bauer (Parker), Roger Thorpe, Holly Norris (Garrett)...hmmm, I'm having trouble selecting ONE more name. There are many possibilities for the last spot: Peggy Scott. Robin Fletcher (Gillian Spencer). Johnny Fletcher (Don Scardino). Hope Bauer (Roussel). Amanda Wexler (Cullen). Ross Marler.

 

Can I have 15?

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1 hour ago, zanereed said:

Mel Boudreau (was I the only one...?),

Haha..that I thought I would never hear..the actress was lovely but the part was underwritten and she and Oleary had no chemistry. Tell us why you liked her!

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2 minutes ago, Mitch said:

Ah everyone is always on MH and his weight...(hello Doug Marland...everyone can't be a muscle twink for you to fawn over..) I thought he looked cute in all of those.

 

I thought Mart Hulswit was cute as a button, regardless of a little added girth. 

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58 minutes ago, Mitch said:

Haha..that I thought I would never hear..the actress was lovely but the part was underwritten and she and Oleary had no chemistry. Tell us why you liked her!

 

I really liked Yvonna Wright, but you are correct - there was no chemistry there with MOL, and they never really did anything with Mel. I kept hoping for a storyline, but...nothing.

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I thought Mart Hulswit was cute as a button, regardless of a little added girth. 

 

IMHO, Mart Hulswit was underrated as Ed. The warmth was always there in his performances, but he still had the temper that Robert Gentry's Ed possessed. I still remember when Rita told Ed that Roger had raped her, and Ed went after Roger like a man possessed. I wish that episode still existed out there...

 

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

Paul Rauch was not one known to care about long-term, beloved actors and characters. 

 

That makes me wonder who actually had the idea of bringing Stewart back for the 60th Anniversary? It made perfect sense, of course, but the show at the time was not really into its own history, as you allude to. I assumed bringing Stewart back was Rauch's doing. As @Mitchstated, Stewart was in Los Angeles at that point, but I wonder if he could have been convinced to come back? It certainly would have helped the mob storyline if Mike Bauer was back to combat it all, as he used to

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3 minutes ago, zanereed said:

 

I really liked Yvonna Wright, but you are correct - there was no chemistry there with MOL, and they never really did anything with Mel. I kept hoping for a storyline, but...nothing.

 

MO'L never really had off-the-charts chemistry with any women, IMHO. Frederick's most viable relationship was with Abby. Mel was underdeveloped and unfocused, and she and Rick never clicked in a believable way. I think MO'L best on-screen chemistry was with GA in the early days, when one could read something of a same-sex relationship potential into their dynamic. 

 

3 minutes ago, zanereed said:

IMHO, Mart Hulswit was underrated as Ed. The warmth was always there in his performances, but he still had the temper that Robert Gentry's Ed possessed. I still remember when Rita told Ed that Roger had raped her, and Ed went after Roger like a man possessed. I wish that episode still existed out there...

 

My thoughts exactly. Hulswit had the warmth, sweetness AND underlying temper, which made him a great choice in the role of Ed.  None of the other actors chosen to play Ed were as versatile in what they could project.

 

3 minutes ago, zanereed said:

 

That makes me wonder who actually had the idea of bringing Stewart back for the 60th Anniversary? It made perfect sense, of course, but the show at the time was not really into its own history, as you allude to. I assumed bringing Stewart back was Rauch's doing. As @Mitchstated, Stewart was in Los Angeles at that point, but I wonder if he could have been convinced to come back? It certainly would have helped the mob storyline if Mike Bauer was back to combat it all, as he used to

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Aligning the vile Santos clan with the Bauers always repulsed me. The only way to redeem that entire situation would have been for Mike to return and fight to purge the criminals from both his family and Springfield. The shoot-out in the Bauer kitchen remains one of the low points of the entire series for me. And watching Michelle marry Danny 765 times was nauseating, LOL.

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@Soapsuds, in the 1980s, Michael O'Leary asked writer Pamela Long if Rick were gay and in love with Phillip. The undertones were obvious to him, too. Unfortunately, Long was the only writer who really understood the complexity of that relationship. Later scribes couldn't (or at least didn't) keep complex nuances and undercurrents going.

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1 hour ago, Mitch said:

Ah everyone is always on MH and his weight...(hello Doug Marland...everyone can't be a muscle twink for you to fawn over..) I thought he looked cute in all of those. Agreed on DS..though I never found him as accessible as MH's Ed, he did not age. I too can't believe that Rauchie didn't offer him a return with no Ed around to have a Bauer patriarch .they could have kept Marj's Alex to pair him with (and recast Raines for God Sake!) The eventual mob storyline would have been better with Mr. Law and Order vs. Mob Mama.  Stewart was in California at that time so would have have agreed?

In regards to MH and his weight, I still remember 40 yrs later, when Peter Simon showed up as new Ed, there was shock and anger in my house, and the 1st thing I said was, "how are they going to let that puny, little man play Ed?" lol. 

     With Don Stewart, I remember him doing an interview with 1 of the soap mags when he returned briefly, and he said that he did want to return, and that soaps no longer had his type of character on. So it was definitely TPTB who didn't want him back. Later when Michelle was accused of murder, I always thought Mike should've been there, which added to all the things that didn't make sense during Rauch's plot gimmicky run 

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1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

Michael O'Leary asked writer Pamela Long if Rick were gay and in love with Phillip. The undertones were obvious to him, too. Unfortunately, Long was the only writer who really understood the complexity of that relationship. Later scribes couldn't (or at least didn't) keep complex nuances and undercurrents going.

That had to be that weird stuff lamb incident and when MOL told Long other actors were making fun of them and saying they were a couple Long was like "Tell me who said that..Im going to fire them!" 

 

1 hour ago, Soapsuds said:

They should've went there with Rick and Philip.

While I would be totally for a same sex couple with two bi guys, I like that Long presented this intense "Bromance," before the word became popular.  Guys can form intense non-sexual bonds and Long infused that with all the loyalty, rivalry, jealousy, admiration and yes, just a touch of sexual spark that guys can have together. Long was the only one who got it right.

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

MHO. Frederick's most viable relationship was with Abby. Mel was underdeveloped and unfocused, and she and Rick never clicked in a believable way.

 

Agreed, it was stupid to let her go.  After that I think Rick and Frank could have existed as the nice big brothers of the town and everyones' best friend, who occasionally dated day players, etc. Actually, I think Rick and Frank would make a better same sex couple then anyone else...Frankie D, after middle age hit him, couldn't must chemistry with anyone since Melina.  Though I do think if they wrote for Mel during the Phillip goes nuts and then had her be one of Harley's lawyers could have fiilled her out. She had a quiet firebrand feeling underneath her, and one of Rick's wives clashing with Phillip, a suspect in his murder and then say cross examing Lizzie on the witness stand would have made more senese of Rick turning to Beth.

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

Aligning the vile Santos clan with the Bauers always repulsed me. The only way to redeem that entire situation would have been for Mike to return and fight to purge the criminals from both his family and Springfield.

It thought having a shady family besides the Spauldings ,having a conflict with the Bauers was a good idea..especially a new immigrant family vs. old immigrant family..however, not how it played out of course. And yes, Mike Bauer coming to town once Chele marries Danny to sniff around Carmen (who would have been trying to go legit but had a "SECRET" she was hiding (I would say she killed Papa Santos with her own two hands in self defense when he tried to rape her..) would rack up the tension..Mike pushing on Carmen to give up her contacts in the mob and Carmen getting very nervous about Mike getting too close to the truth.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I thought Mart Hulswit was cute as a button, regardless of a little added girth. 

 

Mart was in a holiday TV movie in 1983 opposite Lee Remick..and he was handsome (and slimmed down some as well.

 

And I think Mike/Carmen would have been interesting.  

 

Carmen was a character who could have been a viable character long term...shame the show went caricature with her.

 

One of Long's strengths were male friendships..and male/female friendships.

Edited by Soaplovers
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Mart had slimmed down as early as the spring/summer of 1980, as he appeared in some of the pool scenes at the Bauer house during that year shirtless. Speaking of Mart, @vetsoapfan- thank you for pointing out that the photo posted earlier was from 1974! I confess I thought Mart's hair was thinning a bit by then, so that must have been a careful combover.

 

@bboy875, that is too bad about the show not wanting to bring Stewart back during 1997. As @Mitchstated above, it would have been much better during the mob storyline if Mike Bauer had been back in Springfield as "Mr. Law and Order" (sorry, Mitch, that's too good of a tag not to use for Mike Bauer 

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 ) to protect his niece from Carmen (likely as a favor to Ed, who could have still been away in Africa). TGL didn't really have an older, handsome, leading man of Stewart's age on the canvas. I'm sure TPTB weren't going to chase that demo, anyway.

 

Oddly enough, Mike Bauer would have still known most of the people in Springfield at that time. He would have been able to fit back into conflict with Alan and Alex, and there was Lilian to rekindle a romance with. Looking back at the week Mike returned in 1997, the show hinted at it during an all-to-brief encounter Mike had during that celebration with Alan, as well as Lilian gleefully leading Mike around by the arm during that event (which may have been all Tina Sloan's idea, because I have a feeling that Tina would have been insistent on some continuity there).

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5 hours ago, Mitch said:

While I would be totally for a same sex couple with two bi guys, I like that Long presented this intense "Bromance," before the word became popular.  Guys can form intense non-sexual bonds and Long infused that with all the loyalty, rivalry, jealousy, admiration and yes, just a touch of sexual spark that guys can have together. Long was the only one who got it right.

 

ITA. The complex relationship between Rick and Phillip was one of Long's best creations. 

 

5 hours ago, Mitch said:

 

Agreed, it was stupid to let her go.  After that I think Rick and Frank could have existed as the nice big brothers of the town and everyones' best friend, who occasionally dated day players, etc. Actually, I think Rick and Frank would make a better same sex couple then anyone else...Frankie D, after middle age hit him, couldn't must chemistry with anyone since Melina. 

 

While never one of my favorite characters, I was fine with Frank being featured on the show as a supporting player; as you say, a supportive big-brother/friend type. That worked well for the actor's strengths. Rick, on the other hand, should never have turned into the "comedic" schlub next door. He had inherited the mantle of the Bauer family's younger male lead, and should have been an attractive, interesting leading man. He wasn't. It was a waste and a weakness TGL never remedied.

 

5 hours ago, Mitch said:

 

Though I do think if they wrote for Mel during the Phillip goes nuts and then had her be one of Harley's lawyers could have fiilled her out. She had a quiet firebrand feeling underneath her, and one of Rick's wives clashing with Phillip, a suspect in his murder and then say cross examing Lizzie on the witness stand would have made more senese of Rick turning to Beth.

 

The show never figured out what to do with Rick, let alone Mel. I got to the point that I wanted them to write her out if they were never going to use her effectively, and then have Abby return for Rick. 

 

5 hours ago, Mitch said:

It thought having a shady family besides the Spauldings ,having a conflict with the Bauers was a good idea..especially a new immigrant family vs. old immigrant family..however, not how it played out of course. And yes, Mike Bauer coming to town once Chele marries Danny to sniff around Carmen (who would have been trying to go legit but had a "SECRET" she was hiding (I would say she killed Papa Santos with her own two hands in self defense when he tried to rape her..) would rack up the tension..Mike pushing on Carmen to give up her contacts in the mob and Carmen getting very nervous about Mike getting too close to the truth.

 

Of course, everything is dependent on how characters are presented and storylines played out. A new family being introduced to be in conflict with the Bauers might have worked and provided TGL with years of storyline fodder, but there were not enough "good" Bauers on canvas battling against the bad Santos clan, so the conflict was never really developed. I loathe how soaps have glorified degenerates like mobsters, rapists, murderers, etc., over the last several decades. Turning mobsters into supposed romantic leads never worked for me on TGL, a show that was created and built upon traditional, moral values. Without decent people there battling the Santos mob, I just wanted the mob erased altogether.

 

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Carmen was a character who could have been a viable character long term...shame the show went caricature with her.

 

The bad writing and cartoon presentation became so bad, I doubt Carmen could ever have been made viable again.

 

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

One of Long's strengths were male friendships..and male/female friendships.

 

Agreed.

 

1 hour ago, zanereed said:

Mart had slimmed down as early as the spring/summer of 1980, as he appeared in some of the pool scenes at the Bauer house during that year shirtless. Speaking of Mart, @vetsoapfan- thank you for pointing out that the photo posted earlier was from 1974! I confess I thought Mart's hair was thinning a bit by then, so that must have been a careful combover.

 

I remember MH's hair starting to thin a bit, but honestly, I think TPTB care more about things like that than the audience does. Regardless of how shallow "the suits" think viewers are, we love our vets even as they age, lose some hair, and get pudgier like the rest of us do! (And Peter Simon's hair was not a lion's mane, either.)

 

1 hour ago, zanereed said:

 

Oddly enough, Mike Bauer would have still known most of the people in Springfield at that time. He would have been able to fit back into conflict with Alan and Alex, and there was Lilian to rekindle a romance with. Looking back at the week Mike returned in 1997, the show hinted at it during an all-to-brief encounter Mike had during that celebration with Alan, as well as Lilian gleefully leading Mike around by the arm during that event (which may have been all Tina Sloan's idea, because I have a feeling that Tina would have been insistent on some continuity there).

 

So much wasted potential always happens when soaps are headed up by producers and writers who either don't know, or just don't care about, the shows' rich legacies. Things would have been so much different if scribes like Marland, Falken Smith or Curlee had remained, and if a capable, sensitive producer had been in charge. Instead we got Phelps, Rauch and Wheeler. I'm honestly surprised the show survived as long as it did.

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11 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I remember MH's hair starting to thin a bit, but honestly, I think TPTB care more about things like that than the audience does. Regardless of how shallow "the suits" think viewers are, we love our vets even as they age, lose some hair, and get pudgier like the rest of us do! (And Peter Simon's hair was not a lion's mane, either.)

 

That's what I found unbelievable - TPTB replace Hulswit with a "younger" actor in Simon, who was essentially *3 years younger* versus Hulswit, and who eventually also had his own hair challenges! 

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12 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Rick, on the other hand, should never have turned into the "comedic" schlub next door. He had inherited the mantle of the Bauer family's younger male lead, and should have been an attractive, interesting leading man. He wasn't. It was a waste and a weakness TGL never remedied.

That's the writers, directors producers fault for allowing MOL to do that. I know Wheeler went on and on about how funny he is and keeps everyone's morale up but while that might be true with people you work closely with, it does not translate well on the screen. I think Rick was so underwritten that MOL threw things in he felt were funny to just get attention and fill a scene. I think in scenes where he is a good husband, brother, son and friend he did quite well (and he looked damn good in those scenes of Abby leaving him.)  A show needs "normal" people to ground it and the Bauers were always those people (while having soap issues.)

 

12 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Regardless of how shallow "the suits" think viewers are, we love our vets even as they age, lose some hair, and get pudgier like the rest of us do! (And Peter Simon's hair was not a lion's mane, either.)

This is exactly right...and I think the Bauers filled that "everyman" role on the show so they, like us, can get a bit more pudgy and loose hair and still exist in Springfield.  I actaully thought Zimmer's weight gain and aging made Reva likeable again. It was totally in character for Reva with her big appetites to get a bit heavier and maybe get tired of "dolling herself up to go Kroger" but  oh, if they only knew how to dress women who weren't stick figures..they made her look worse.

 

14 hours ago, zanereed said:

Oddly enough, Mike Bauer would have still known most of the people in Springfield at that time. He would have been able to fit back into conflict with Alan and Alex, and there was Lilian to rekindle a romance with.

Oh, yea, there would be issues there with Lillian and her role in Mo's death. Great fodder.  I wish that McTrash brought Mike back when PS left under her reign of terror. Alan was busing destroying 5th Street and Mike on AM's behalf could have intervened and then Alex would be caught between Mike and Alan. The only problem was that really bad recast of AM was on then.

 

12 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Of course, everything is dependent on how characters are presented and storylines played out. A new family being introduced to be in conflict with the Bauers might have worked and provided TGL with years of storyline fodder, but there were not enough "good" Bauers on canvas battling against the bad Santos clan, so the conflict was never really developed.

I agree, and yes, the Santos and Carmen should have been developed more. With Carmen wanting to get out of the dirt but constantly dragged back in, as a Latina trying to get power and respect in Springfield, and Danny who she felt was the ticket to respectability so she would both hate Chele for her role in whatshisfaces death and also see her as a ticket to social respectability through the Bauers.  I think SS could have played it well, but they just brought her on and kept her as Cruella Deville and it never worked.

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