Guiding Light discussion thread

[Soaplovers]

 

I do feel 1988 would have the year that Long's efforts at fixing the show would have paid off except for the writer strike hindering five months or so of story.

 

With that said, the first week she and the other writers came back in mid September 1988... you noticed a difference right away in how the show was written.  She picked up the random threads the scabs left and ran with them... providing some interesting story material for Fletcher (as grieving widow), Maureen, Ed, etc.  I also think the scab writers were the ones to have Meredith/Phillip hook up randomly... which Long took and ran with generating months of story/conflict with Rick/Phillip/Blake/Meredith... and pairing Alex/Fletcher was an interesting choice since the two had interacted for several years on occasion while both were in other relationships... and having the two flying to South America (because of their ties to the Sonni story) and crashing on an island where Roger Thorpe was... a good way to kick start another story.

 

In regards to Jackson Fremont, I always wonder if Long had intended to write him off after the Largo story and Lujack's death aftermath was over because she left shortly after the conclusion of that story.  I do think when she returned, she did phase him out to being a recurring character.  And I think the only reason she kept Chelsea on was mostly due to the actress and not the character... though I did think Chelsea/Maureen had good sister chemistry... and the Rae stalking story in late 1989/early 1990 was a good showcase for Chelsea.  It was just that she was left in limbo for the last six months or so she was on the show with the show having her sing at the Blue Moon.. and flirting with Fletcher/Frank.  

 

I also would have loved to have had someone ask Long what her original plans were for Blake (since she was known for writing extensive bibles for new characters).

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

She probably saved what she could from the original plans for Blake and then took what she couldn't apply to Blake and recycled it for another character. I think that's what she did with Beth's cousin. She ended up making India more high class and Alexandra's stepdaughter, then reused her original idea for Beth's cousin when she created Jessie Matthews. She had specific goals in mind with the families and had certain creations in mind to fit those families and breathe new life into them. That's where she was light years ahead of other head writers and why so many of her characters became iconic legacy characters that lasted until the show finally left the airwaves.

 

With regards to the Alex-H.B. pairing, I think the reason she discontinued that was because she wanted her families to remain intact as wholly distinct. If she had a Spaulding marry a Lewis, then it would merge those two families and make them into one new identity, instead of the separate identities she had created for them. This would also explain why she didn't let Lillian marry Hawk, because she wanted to keep the Raines separate from the Shaynes; and why she split Mindy & Rusty up. She already had Reva as a Shayne & Lewis and making Mindy a hybrid would continue to blend those two families instead of letting them be distinctly separate identities. If my theory is correct, this also explains why she kept Roxy from marrying Johnny and becoming a Bauer.

 

Long's plan always seemed to be keep her core families intact. She would bring in an outsider like Kyle Sampson and his mother Sally because they were intended to be part of the Lewis clan through their connection with Billy. And she'd let Rusty marry Rose McLaren, an outside woman, because it was a way to increase the Shaynes...but it did not come at the expense of taking from one of the other core families. As I said she didn't want her core families being watered down through a lot of intermarrying. That's the mistake the interim writers made which she corrected when she came back on to the show.

 

When she introduced the Coopers she did connect them to some of the other families. She had the teen (Dylan) who got Harley pregnant turn out to be Reva's long lost son. But Dylan and Harley never married, so Harley continued to remain as a Cooper. When Harley hooked up with Alan Michael we knew it was something that wouldn't last and they never had any kids together.

 

Of course later writers started blending the families again. Nadine would marry Billy Lewis; Dylan would marry Bridget Reardon; Harley would marry Phillip Spaulding and have a son with him; Harley would also have a son with Rick Bauer, etc.

 

Sometimes Long created a character like Fletcher Reade who basically was an independent type but bounced in and out of several families' orbits. Fletcher was involved with the Bauers (through his friendship with Ed & Maureen), with the Spauldings (because of his relationship with Alexandra), with the Norrises (when he married Holly), and with the Reardons (when he briefly was interested in Chelsea).

 

Ross Marler was another character, one Long didn't create, who was used in the same way. He was involved with all the core families,  and had dated a lot of women in those families in between his two marriages (to Carrie Todd and Blake Thorpe). But Fletcher always had his own distinct identity; and so did Ross. They were never totally absorbed into any of the core families. Like I said, Long kept her families fairly distinct. Each family was sort of its own little world, and her vision of Springfield was about all these little worlds colliding. At least this is how I see her work on the show and why it was so influential.

Edited November 21, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[MichaelGL]

 

 

Happy Thanksgiving fellow GL fans. It's around this time, and the 4th of July that I miss my P&G soaps.

 

 

[Mitch]

 

 

I remember that..it was great! You immediately knew that new writers were involved (in much the same way of Marland's first week of ATWT) but not only that, you knew it was Pam Long. She and Marland had distinct writing styles that you just knew it was "them".  I remember someone writing in a soap mag at the time that GL viewers knew who "Pam Long" was but fans of other soaps had no clue who the headwriters were or cared.

 

Unfortunatley other writers just kept shoving Reva into a red dress to show she was "wild" so much so that Zimmer said, "Every time I see that damn red dress I know I am going to have to act like an ass!"

 

 

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

Yes, I think McTavish had Reva wear a red dress for a special episode when Reva was married to Buzz (that was an interesting pairing).

 

Long's use of Reva in the red dress was a variation of the baptism scene. It was just another way for Long to show viewers how this character could shock the more dignified members of Springfield society. Most especially how Reva's wild side simultaneously attracted and repulsed Josh.

Edited November 23, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[Soaplovers]

I've been rewatching 1989 (Pam Long's first full year back as head-writer).. and it's interesting to see how she effortlessly tested characters with one another to see what worked and what didn't work.... for example..

 

Nadine was scheming with Alan when she first arrived, had a brief relationship with Ross (I recall the actor playing Ross saying that he wished the relationship was explored more), and it was Billy that first approached her.. not the other way around.  In fact, Billy/Nadine were in cahoots because he was interested in getting Vanessa back and Nadine had her eye on Ross.. and Vanessa/Ross were casually flirting/talking (I loved how that relationship thread was maintained into the late 90s where even Blake was jealous of it circa 1992/3).  And the thing was that Nadine wasn't an idiot, but was just ambition yet had an interesting/tense relationship with both Harley/Frank during that period.

 

I also had no idea that Frank/Holly was tested a few times.. while Johnny/Holly was also tested (all post Ed and before she and Roger thawed out toward one another)... while Chelsea/Phillip were still tense with one another after their break up the year before... and that Sam had a crush on Frank before she/Dylan were paired together.  It's interesting to see 1989 as a year where Long was experimenting to see how all the pieces would fit together... and it is a shame Michelle Forbes opted to leave in late 1989 because Sonni/Roger were intriguing as well as Blake/Sonni not getting along.. while Sonni/Rusty were actually friendly with one another (with chemistry to boot since he and Kimberly Simms Mindy didn't have any).

 

I often think Curlee didn't officially become a co headwriter (or take over 50 percent of the duties) till at least 1990 when a lot of these experiments went away.

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Great post. If I remember correctly, one of the reasons Long quit in late 1990 (though there were several reasons) is because she didn't like how P&G soaps had started to become written by committee. She didn't like her vision questioned by other writers who were starting to have equal power with her. When Long was hired at Santa Barbara in 1991, she had full control over plots and characters again. But of course Santa Barbara was on its last legs and ended less than a year later in early 1992.

 

It's really a shame Long couldn't be persuaded to go back to Guiding Light during that rough patch in the mid 90s or even in the mid 2000s when the show was basically on life support. If anyone could have breathed new life into Springfield, it would have been her. But I think she had been burned badly by P&G in 1990 and she would never work for the company again. She did serve as headwriter for One Life to Live in the late 90s, and that stint was quite interesting. But after she left OLTL she was done with daytime soaps. Of course, she's been involved in numerous other projects.

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

A June 1987 episode was posted to YouTube yesterday and I watched it last night. There were no credits at the end, just the P&G logo. So I can't tell if this is Pam Long's material yet. Certain lines and scenes definitely felt like her influence. So even if it's the end of Anderson/Manetta's material, which I suspect it is with the conclusion of the Paul Valere murder mystery, I think Long has tweaked it. Dr. Will Jeffries made one of his very first appearances, and if memory serves correctly, he was a Long creation.

 

What I liked about this episode is that while Warren Andrews is revealed as Valere's killer, and he's holding Alan and Chelsea at gunpoint, we get a lot of good dialogue about Warren's first days in Springfield; how his wife Lesley Ann died, which he blames on Alan; and how he went from Cedars to Spaulding to owning the Blue Orchid. So even if this was still technically the last part of Anderson/Manetta's material, I think Long definitely oversaw the writing of these scenes, since it referenced a lot of the earlier drama with Warren she had done.

 

Here's Warren's complete history on the soap central website: http://www.soapcentral.com/gl/whoswho/warren.php

 

We also have some good stuff going on at the hospital where Rusty's been brought into the emergency room because he's just been shot. We get to see Roxy go off the rails lashing out at Johnny, while Mindy learns what has happened. Plus Hawk and Sarah bond at Rusty's bedside. That scene with Hawk and Sarah reconnecting definitely felt like something Long would have overseen.

 

And there were some good scenes with Ross, Jackson and Fletcher trying to figure out where Warren had taken Chelsea. As well as a very interesting nightmare scene where Reva dreamed that Kyle was Marah's father, and Miss Sally was taunting her. I get the feeling the animosity between the actresses was real. I don't think Kim Zimmer liked working with Patricia Barry. It feeds into the hatred the women are supposed to have with each other on camera.

 

The soap central site says Warren's last episode was the 12th of June 1987, which was a Friday. The episode posted on YT ends with Warren still holding Alan and Chelsea at gunpoint. Phillip hasn't come in yet and stopped him from killing Chelsea and Alan. I believe Warren's last episode featured him in prison. Therefore the episode on YT is either from the week of June 1-5 or the first part of June 8-12. My guess is that it's from the 8th of June. Since I bet Rusty being shot by Valere's goon was the Friday cliffhanger on the 5th.

Edited November 25, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[Soaplovers]

 

There is a July 1st 1987 posted from awhile back that showed Anderson/Manetta were still listed as head-writers (during the 50th anniversary week) so I'm going to guess the reason that a lot of Warren's past was referenced was because the breakdown/script writers writing the episodes had been there during Long's 1st tenure. 

 

There isn't a whole lot of episodes posted between early July and fall of 1987 when Long is back as head-writer.. so I'm guessing she came back in July/August 1987.  The fact that Lacey Bauer was still around by July 1st 1987 makes me believe that Long hadn't returned yet.. because once she officially came back, Lacey was shown the door... Frank Cooper was created.. and Harley Cooper followed shortly thereafter (with mentions of Nadine coming as early as the start of 1988 as well).

 

 

[victoria foxton]

GL's 50th anniversary was so lackluster A big anniversary was handled in a rather blase way. Instead of a big lavish celebration. With returning favorites. We get Lacey Bauer

Please register in order to view this content

Meave & Fletcher had chemistry. But Meave was beyond bland. Anderson/Manetta's  Jeva's was awful.  The scene with all the scandals the Springfield Journal covered was all too brief.

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by victoria foxton

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

Thanks. think in those days the writing was six weeks ahead of airtime. So this stuff with Warren from the second week of June could have been right when Long came back and got her hands on scripts that Anderson/Manetta did. Stuff she fixed just before it was to be filmed. The material with her name on it, meaning scripts she created from scratch, wouldn't hit the screen until probably sometime in late July or early August.

 

The scene that most made me feel this episode had the Long touch was the dialogue Mindy says to Roxy in the waiting room. About how much they love Rusty and need to be there to help him pull through, and Roxy tells Mindy she's an honorary Shayne. It just connected the Lewises and Shaynes so explicitly, in a way that Long would have done since these families were her brainchild. Also Long was known for highly emotional sentimental writing, and the way Mindy and Roxy reach out to each other, while Hawk and Sarah stand by each other inside Rusty's room, just felt really emotional and sentimental the way Long tells her stories.

 

BandstandMike the guy who's been posting these episodes told me in an email earlier today that he has more episodes from 87 that he will continue to post. But he admitted a lot of it is "lost" (of course P&G still has all of these episodes somewhere).

Edited November 25, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[Soaplovers]

 

I can see what you're saying... it is entirely possible that she did some alterations on the scripts.. but since they were written using outlines by Anderson/Manetta.. that is why they were probably credited.  

 

And I am curious on the committee writing thing you mentioned before.. since Another World and ATWT didn't employ this committee writing thing as much as GL did (well ATWT probably started to once Marland passed away.. but AW kept a head-writer/co head writer thing up till the mid 90s).  I think the test to see which parts of the show were Long's idea and which weren't would probably be answered in early 1991 episodes after she departed (Mallet/Mindy ended fairly quickly once Long left)... while the whole Mindy/Roger affair kept going (Curlee had mentioned that was her idea)... plus Harley working with Mindy at the fashion house ended in early 1991.. and she decided to become a cop.

 

Another thing from viewing 1989 episodes (which answer so many questions for me as to how Gilly came onto the scene.. how Billy/Nadine met.. and what caused Vanessa/Billy to break up yet again).. is that I finally got the answer to why Maureen was always jealous of Holly.  Holly was the one to end things with Ed in the summer of 1989 because she knew he still loved Maureen.. while Ed was protesting the end of their new relationship.  It explained why Maureen was on edge whenever Holly came to Ed for advice or help.. because Maureen knew Ed was still in love with Holly.. and she felt, as misguided as it was, that Ed only came back to him because Holly broke up with him.  Which is why she instantly assumed Holly and Ed were having an affair in 1992 (when it was Lillian, not Holly) because Maureen always believed Ed would go running back if Holly had given the ok.  

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

I always figured the committee writing thing was started to streamline operations and to keep the power of a head writer in check. After Pam Long left there tended to be three co-headwriters for awhile. I wonder how much power Megan McTavish had. James Harmon Brown & Barbara Esensten were a team, but I watched a behind-the-scenes segment with them, and they sat at a large conference table with the other writers and she usually pitched an idea then the rest chimed in and either shot it down or approved it, which seemed very committee-driven. He seemed to focus on individual scripts. He specialized in tweaking dialogue, and he would pull the dialogue writers aside and tell them, "I want Character X to say this in that scene" or "Character Y would never say that, instead change his speech so it sounds like this..." etc.

 

I think that as the show went along, the writers' main tasks were split among the members of the group. Long was a visionary and I don't think she liked the idea of deciding stories as a group. From her days as head writer of Texas, her style was more to create an extensive bible with everything specifically laid out for the year ahead, with nobody being allowed to tamper with her vision for the main families. But I do think Long was in tune with her actors, so if they were struggling or something didn't feel right for them, she'd revise it.

 

Later, in the early 2000s, when GL's ratings dropped significantly, there was still a main head writer, but then there were also creative consultants. So when Millee Taggart was headwriting, Carolyn Culliton was a consultant, which basically meant Taggart was accountable to Culliton. And when Ellen Weston was head writer and David Kreizman was head writer Donna Swajeski was the creative consultant and they had to run their ideas by her. I also think the creative consultants were on hand when P&G fired a head writer and brought a new head writer in...the consultant would ensure that the transitions between regimes went as smoothly as possible and that the legacy characters remained intact.

Edited November 26, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[Vee]

That's not how consulting on soaps works.

 

The titles can be important but they are also often largely ceremonial. Many 'consultants' on soaps have ideas regularly dismissed and were just there as wallpaper, especially in the last 20 years. Including Agnes Nixon at AMC in much of the 2000s, and Kay Alden at Y&R in the last couple years. Their ideas and opinions were regularly dismissed by management, the EP or in some cases the HW.

 

I have never heard any viable claim that Swajeski or Culliton or any other consulting writer had to clear the HWs' work at GL as consultants.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Vee

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Sorry but your comment seems ridiculous to me. I never said they cleared the head writer's work. I said they were there to help with transitions between regimes and the head writers were accountable to them which they were. If the head writers planned to kill off half the veteran cast, you can be sure the consultant was right there telling them not to do that. And if the head writers didn't listen, the consultant was on the phone with the producers.  The consultants were there to keep things running smoothly. To suggest better ways of doing things, at least at P&G.

 

I think the consultants are used differently at ABC and differently on Y&R, because someone like Kay Alden was still accountable to the Bells who are the real consultants. Agnes Nixon's problem was something else entirely-- they stopped listening to her because, quite frankly and it's going to sound cruel, she had become an old woman and experienced ageism. The same thing happened to Irna Phillips the last year of her life. The older ones were seen as out of touch with how the genre had evolved and nobody listened to them anymore.