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27 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Well, not that I'm defending that decision, but AW had strayed so far from its history by that point, how many people there probably didn't even know that he once played Russ?

Hell, how many people there probably didn't even know that there once was a character named Russ?

He was Josie's  father and Rachel's ex-husband. He  would have been an easy character to bring back.

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1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

He was Josie's  father and Rachel's ex-husband. He  would have been an easy character to bring back.

Definitely.

I was talking about people behind the scenes. It's entirely possible that he was cast in the role of the Judge without anyone knowing that he was once Russ.

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Just now, AbcNbc247 said:

Definitely.

I was talking about people behind the scenes. It's entirely possible that he was cast in the role of the Judge without anyone knowing that he was once Russ.

I think they knew, they just didn't want to make the effort.  

Anyway, I would agree with those who felt AW's finale was better than ATWT's. The last scene of a show should not be a dollar store globe. 

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The ATWT finale was [!@#$%^&*] just like its last more than several years, and I still remember the guy who all but wrote a doctoral thesis in the DC comments sections explaining to us plebs why these finales were actually excellent.

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5 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I think they knew, they just didn't want to make the effort.  

Anyway, I would agree with those who felt AW's finale was better than ATWT's. The last scene of a show should not be a dollar store globe. 

Most definitely agree.  The best part of the AW finale were when each cast member filmed their best wishes for Cass and Lila, but it was really the actors talking to the fans.  I wonder if these lines were written in the script or they allowed them to ad lib their lines.

Also, when Rachel was doing her sweep of the Cory living room, Vicky Wyndham stopped at Constance Ford's picture and kissed the frame.  I'm sure Wyndham improvised that.

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3 minutes ago, Vee said:

The ATWT finale was [!@#$%^&*] just like its last more than several years, and I still remember the guy who all but wrote a doctoral thesis in the DC comments sections explaining to us plebs why these finales were actually excellent.

Yes, that was a week long lecture series from him, with articles praising the decision to kill Reid and leave Luke alone and unhappy in one of the laziest homophobic tropes around, and gushing over the bravery and intelligence of not having any returns.

This type of gaslighting is why I will not support any project involving DC people. 

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4 minutes ago, watson71 said:

Most definitely agree.  The best part of the AW finale were when each cast member filmed their best wishes for Cass and Lila, but it was really the actors talking to the fans.  I wonder if these lines were written in the script or they allowed them to ad lib their lines.

Also, when Rachel was doing her sweep of the Cory living room, Vicky Wyndham stopped at Constance Ford's picture and kissed the frame.  I'm sure Wyndham improvised that.

I still remember the AW finale which IIRC ended (minus the last scene) with a long, lazy sort of hangout scene in the summer evening with the characters all relaxing either at the various homes or I think at the wedding? with their families, children, loved ones, etc. I always remembered that and loved the mood and vibe and I felt it was the essence of good long-running soap - instilling a sense of a familiar place, feel and moment in time, something Nancy Curlee famously also described about GL.

The ending of AW I'm sure had many issues but I thought a lot of its final few hours were a quality finale, and for my money superior to GL or ATWT.

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8 minutes ago, watson71 said:

Most definitely agree.  The best part of the AW finale were when each cast member filmed their best wishes for Cass and Lila, but it was really the actors talking to the fans.  I wonder if these lines were written in the script or they allowed them to ad lib their lines.

Also, when Rachel was doing her sweep of the Cory living room, Vicky Wyndham stopped at Constance Ford's picture and kissed the frame.  I'm sure Wyndham improvised that.

That was a beautiful moment. Whatever you felt about Carl, or even about Rachel, seeing the show's longtime core character finding her own personal happiness again - true love, family and friends all in good places - with that added  personal touch for  viewers, and  Wyndham herself. We knew they  were going to be alright, even if we never saw the characters again. Yet the gesture for Ada (and for Constance) also reminded us of what we had lost. It was an honest moment in a genre that by that point was already alien to them.

I'm so glad Victoria Wyndham stayed with the show through decades of turmoil and various efforts to drum her out. I think of what Chris Schemering wrote about how Tudi Wiggins called Love of Life "The Lady." The soap was not just there to sell product, it was its own being. Wyndham  respected that creature, and respected the fans who were hanging on to see it brought to a natural end.  

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1 hour ago, watson71 said:

Things really began to unravel at AW in 1996.

I'd agree that's when things become irreversible but I am watching some 1995 episodes on YouTube and it was already pretty damn rough. 

53 minutes ago, John said:

Now did Carmen Duncan quit  or was she fired

I think she wanted to go back to Australia.

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13 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I'm so glad Victoria Wyndham stayed with the show through decades of turmoil and various efforts to drum her out. I think of what Chris Schemering wrote about how Tudi Wiggins called Love of Life "The Lady." The soap was not just there to sell product, it was its own being. Wyndham  respected that creature, and respected the fans who were hanging on to see it brought to a natural end.  

I am, too. In interviews post-AW, she always mentioned the fans as to why she stayed so long.

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7 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Sam Groom also returned, but not as Russ Matthews, because of course let's not actually honor history.

David Bailey had been the only Russ Matthews since 1973. it was his Russ that married Sharlene and many years later learned he was Josie's father. Sam Groom's Russ was married to Rachel but he left in 1971 and never worked with Victoria Wyndham or Irene Dailey. Under the circumstances I think giving him a different minor role that was nostalgic only from a meta-perspective was a reasonable choice.

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7 hours ago, DRW50 said:

That was a beautiful moment. Whatever you felt about Carl, or even about Rachel, seeing the show's longtime core character finding her own personal happiness again - true love, family and friends all in good places - with that added  personal touch for  viewers, and  Wyndham herself. We knew they  were going to be alright, even if we never saw the characters again. Yet the gesture for Ada (and for Constance) also reminded us of what we had lost. It was an honest moment in a genre that by that point was already alien to them.

Also, they could not have picked a more perfect song. I wasn't familiar with Bette Midler's "In This Life" before the finale, but now it's iconic to AW fans.

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6 hours ago, Xanthe said:

David Bailey had been the only Russ Matthews since 1973. it was his Russ that married Sharlene and many years later learned he was Josie's father. Sam Groom's Russ was married to Rachel but he left in 1971 and never worked with Victoria Wyndham or Irene Dailey. Under the circumstances I think giving him a different minor role that was nostalgic only from a meta-perspective was a reasonable choice.

Nothing against David (RIP), but I don't think he was irreplaceable in the role. I would have preferred the scenes with Josie or Rachel over the groom role. 

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3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Nothing against David (RIP), but I don't think he was irreplaceable in the role. I would have preferred the scenes with Josie or Rachel over the groom role. 

It's not that David Bailey should be considered irreplaceable, I was just thinking about where Sam Groom would have the most resonance taking into consideration his past with both the audience and the cast. If Sam Groom had previously worked with Victoria Wyndham or any other actor still in the cast I think it would have been easier to have him cameo as Russ in the finale. Or if they had had him for more time and it had been a meaningful storyline for Josie that could also have worked. Of course if it had been a real storyline they could have recast Russ altogether.

Thinking about very brief replacements, I have to admit that I found the brief run of Stephen Bogardus as Sandy Cory a bit jarring. I know he was there because it seemed important for Maggie's father to be present, but as I recall he was just a conventional corporate and stern father without any hint of the louche Sandy.

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11 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

Thinking about very brief replacements, I have to admit that I found the brief run of Stephen Bogardus as Sandy Cory a bit jarring. I know he was there because it seemed important for Maggie's father to be present, but as I recall he was just a conventional corporate and stern father without any hint of the louche Sandy.

Wasn't Chris Rich asked to return (I don't know for how long) and he turned them down?

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