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2 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

I don't think he had one. He just disappeared. And I think the same thing happened to Morgan. He left in 1996 though, and I'm pretty sure he was the first exit under Charlotte Savitz. 

 

1 hour ago, amybrickwallace said:

I don't remember him even really being mentioned again.

While I understand the logistics of a new regime, John's disappearance doesn't make much sense.  He was a part of at least two stories at the time of his exit; the Alexander story with his ex-girlfriend Felicia and and his nephew Nick's trial.  Neither story was resolved at the time of his exit.  I know the Felicia pairing was not popular, and they were focusing on Shane as the main doctor (although Shane was killed off six months later), but this is one of those times that it felt like they were cutting off their nose despite their face.

Meanwhile, I read the rest of 1997 and 1998, and it was a bad period of story telling.  There was Grant's confessional tape being held by Cindy, then Marley, then Vicky, and back to Cindy.  Then, there was the secret that Cameron fathered Josie's baby.  By the time the baby was born everyone in town knew that Gary was not the father; except Gary.  Tons of people got away with crimes in order to keep the secret, and there were endless scenes of Amanda asking Cameron if he fathered the baby.  

Even in print, it was so repetitive that the motivation that people had for keeping these secrets were no longer logical.  I mean Grant is trying to keep the secret that he caused the crash of Bobby's bus, for eighteen months while Bobby, who then became known as Shane, died in a separate accident.  And, Josie is trying to keep Gary believing that he's the father so he won't drink, but why would she want to raise her baby with a guy that incapable of dealing with stress?  They were two cops raising a baby, stress was inevitable.

It doesn't help that characters are abandoning Bay City like the Titanic and the crazy Lumina story was the cherry on top of all of that mess.  I'm usually a fan of a big swing at a nutty soap story, but that one was so ill-timed, and felt as if the canvas turned on a dime.  One summer they're telling a gritty story about rape.  Then, Gary is kidnapped into a room with a vat of acid on the floor which somehow leaves him sterile, Vicky is kidnapped by Marley and placed in the suddenly abandoned Love Family mansion basement, and Grant is kidnapped while faking his death.  The tonal shift is completely bizarre and you know a writer is crap when the motives for multiple characters is that they've been inexplicably hypnotized. 

Yet, even the worst writers in soap history usually have characters get a job offer in a new city or a call from an out of town relative needing support rather than just having people disappear and never spoken of again.

Edited by j swift
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20 minutes ago, j swift said:

It doesn't help that characters are abandoning Bay City like the Titanic and the crazy Lumina story was the cherry on top of all of that mess.  I'm usually a fan of a big swing at a nutty soap story, but that one was so ill-timed, and felt as if the canvas turned on a dime.  One summer they're telling a gritty story about rape.  Then, Gary is kidnapped into a room with a vat of acid on the floor which somehow leaves him sterile, Vicky is kidnapped by Marley and placed in suddenly abandoned Love Family mansion basement, and Grant is kidnapped while faking his death.  The tonal shift is completely bizarre and you know a writer is crap when the motives for multiple characters is that they've been inexplicably hypnotized. 

Yep.

That was when Richard Culliton left and Leah Laiman came in. Just from watching the relatively small amount of episodes on Youtube, you could tell there was a shift between early 1998 to mid to late 98.

When Laiman came in, she was told to write something "larger than life" and what she came up with was Lumina. 

Edited by AbcNbc247
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5 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

That was when Richard Culliton left and Leah Laiman came in. Just from watching the relatively small amount of episodes on Youtube, you could tell there was a shift between early 1998 to mid to late 98

Which must also explain Lila's immediate shift from Matt to Cass.  One day she is desperate for Matt's love, and alienating him from Sophia.  The next day she is head over heals for Cass and Matt is an a-hole trying to get custody.

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15 minutes ago, j swift said:

Which must also explain Lila's immediate shift from Matt to Cass.  One day she is desperate for Matt's love, and alienating him from Sophia.  The next day she is head over heals for Cass and Matt is an a-hole trying to get custody.

Well, I think that was one story shift that worked. I really liked Cass and Lila together. Still, it's a shame that Matt Crane came back only to never have a decent story.

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4 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

Well, I think that was one story shift that worked. I really liked Cass and Lila together. Still, it's a shame that Matt Crane came back only to never have a decent story.

Am I wrong in thinking that Matt Crane came back because they had seen the writing on the wall and he simply wanted to wrap up the character for sentimental reasons rather than expecting good story?

I have to say I never bought Lila with any the Matts. It is weird because she was actually just three years older than MC and yet she came off older to me. Gorgeous, mind you, but still a bit older than him (or BG).

 

46 minutes ago, j swift said:

Yet, even the worst writers in soap history usually have characters get a job offer in a new city or a call from an out of town relative needing support rather than just having people disappear and never spoken of again.


This is John's last episode


He gets a scene that feels like closure with Felicia but no sense it is his last scene. For a character that had been so pivotal for a decade, it was so insulting.
I mean, it would have cost them nothing to have him visit Josie and mention he wanted to visit Sharlene and just leave us to hope they might have reconnected. They didn't even have to write it. Just give us a throwaway line
Thinking about all they trashed for Felicia/John only to end it this lackadaisical way pisses me off.

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2 minutes ago, FrenchBug82 said:

He gets a scene that feels like closure with Felicia but no sense it is his last scene. For a character that had been so pivotal for a decade, it was so insulting.
I mean, it would have cost them nothing to have him visit Josie and mention he wanted to visit Sharlene and just leave us to hope they might have reconnected. They didn't even have to write it. Just give us a throwaway line
Thinking about all they trashed for Felicia/John only to end it this lackadaisical way pisses me off.

That happened a lot at this time. Look at Gabe and Lorna. They were this huge couple under JFP/DePriest, but when Gabe died she didn't even get a scene to mourn him. She found out over the phone. 

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3 minutes ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Am I wrong in thinking that Matt Crane came back because they had seen the writing on the wall and he simply wanted to wrap up the character for sentimental reasons rather than expecting good story?

I honestly have no idea. Matt Cory may well have had bigger story had the show continued. It was reported that John Littlefield had been let go as Gary Sinclair. I don't know how he was going to exit, because the cancelation was announced shortly thereafter and AW ended up keeping him on.

I believe it was on this board that I read that Matt was going to reunite with his teenage love, Josie. So it makes sense, given the timeline.

As for Matt Crane seeing the writing on the wall, probably. AW's last few renewals had been treated by the soap press as stays of execution.

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5 hours ago, Xanthe said:

Did Mary ever recover her memory? I thought they avoided dealing with any of that by keeping her in a state of amnesia. 

She got her memory back and was able to prove Reggie killed his wife. Then she full on reconciled with Vince. They stayed about a year after.

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6 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Look at Gabe and Lorna. They were this huge couple under JFP/DePriest, but when Gabe died she didn't even get a scene to mourn him. She found out over the phone. 

It is especially odd story planning because Lorna went into hiding, then the next week Gabe was shot from afar.  So, there were multiple other options, including having them leaving together.  Of course, it is even more ironic that Lorna left to be safe from Cindy, but then Cindy stays in Bay City for another eighteen months, without ever going to jail and avoiding all negative consequences (unless you count kissing Grant as a punishment).

25 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

I think that was one story shift that worked. I really liked Cass and Lila together.

Agreed, it was just speed of her shifting from Shane to Matt, and then Cass, coupled with the inevitable spoiler of Anne, that made the whole thing seem driven by writer's pen, or audience reaction, rather than her character's motivation.  We were lucky that Lila and Cass were so charming together that their marriage had rooting value, but there was very little build up for Matt becoming such a prick in response.

2 minutes ago, Marissa Gallant said:

She got her memory back and was able to prove Reggie killed his wife. Then she full on reconciled with Vince. They stayed about a year after.

Was that the story about a secret room in the hospital where Mrs Love was killed?  Which made very little sense given the history that Reg had built a hospital room in his cellar for Donna to give birth, and knew the evil Dr Dunning, who could have more logically killed his wife.

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1 hour ago, j swift said:

Was that the story about a secret room in the hospital where Mrs Love was killed?  Which made very little sense given the history that Reg had built a hospital room in his cellar for Donna to give birth, and knew the evil Dr Dunning, who could have more logically killed his wife.

Was there a hospital room for Elizabeth? I know for the Mary reveal Cass and Adam found evidence that Mary McKinnon had been in a secret hospital room that Reginald had bizarrely kept untouched since Mary's accident. I don't remember the Elizabeth murder. 

The cellar room was a bedroom where Donna had to hide for months to conceal her pregnancy. She did give birth there but it wasn't a hospital room (at least not in 1984 when she hid Catlin in it).

I'm not sure that I would rely on a black market baby doctor to commit a murder for me. They seem like different specialties. 

Edited by Xanthe
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On 9/15/2021 at 1:28 PM, FrenchBug82 said:

As a completely unimportant side note, how many facelifts did Linda Dano get?

Someone mentioned earlier that the skylight-fall was intended to "excuse" her being in bandages in 1997 but watching the late 1995 episodes that are being posted on YouTube and those massive unflattering bangs she was wearing then look like they are intended to cover something.

Just the one, to which my mother unmercifully remarked a few years later, “Why it look like she need another one?”

LD said that she did NOT want to do a, “Felicia has a facelift” story, insisting that was Jeanne Cooper’s thing, so they sent her through a skylight.

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6 hours ago, SFK said:

LD said that she did NOT want to do a, “Felicia has a facelift” story, insisting that was Jeanne Cooper’s thing, so they sent her through a skylight.

That's good to hear. I remember her falling through the skylight, but I don't remember the fallout of Felicia's facial surgery.

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12 hours ago, j swift said:

It is especially odd story planning because Lorna went into hiding, then the next week Gabe was shot from afar.  So, there were multiple other options, including having them leaving together.  Of course, it is even more ironic that Lorna left to be safe from Cindy, but then Cindy stays in Bay City for another eighteen months, without ever going to jail and avoiding all negative consequences (unless you count kissing Grant as a punishment).

Seems like by that point, it was all part of plan to decimate AW as much they could and get it cancelled

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