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On 12/14/2020 at 5:30 PM, j swift said:

Looking back, I think there were some key elements missing from the setup of the plot and the payoff was deeply unsatisfying.  This was mostly due to recasts and other production elements that were beyond the control of the writers.  On paper, meeting the patriarch of the Love family and having him be involved with the matriarch of the McKinnons was intriguing, but the execution was flawed.  I think fans were ultimately disappointed when a plot that should have established the backstory cannon of the Loves and the McKinnons turned into the expansion of the Hudson clan and the conflict between brothers John and Michael.

 

First, the children that were most affected by Mary's absence were not the central focus of the story.  There was a lot of hubbub regarding Reginald's return on the relationship of Donna and Michael (whom by all rights should have already bought their own penthouse and moved out from living with her adult brother and sister long before Reg even came to town).  Cheryl, Vicky and Marley really should have been the center of the story.  AWHP reports that Mary came on in August 1986, but Marly left the first time in September 1986 for a year, Vicky left in December (who would have know Rhonda Lewin would have been such a flop) and Cheryl left (with Scott) by July 1988 after being backburned for a few awhile.  MJ was given most of the dialogue about accepting her missing mother back into the fold, but there was very little exploration into how the loss of her mother played into her youthful indiscretions into porn and drugs.   However, I think the show missed a beat by not focusing enough of the storyline on the impact on the youngest kids. 

 

It has already been mentioned that Donna's de-evolution into a weeping victim damaged her as a character in ways that could only have been resolved by Anna Stuart's return to the role and the ensuing retrograde amnesia of never mentioning Reg again.  However, having Cheryl and/or Marley being terrorized by Reg would have fit better with those characters.  Then, an emboldened Donna and Mary could have helped them fight back.

 

I also agree that more exploration into the marriage of Elizabeth and Reginald, through the eyes of Jason Frame and Mary McKinnon would have been preferable.  The whole timeline of when they both left (and why) was resolved through exposition which was very unsatisfying.  Imagine how great a set of flashbacks with Anne Heche as Elizabeth and Tom Eplin as a young Reg to let viewer see their relationship would have been?  The loss of Elizabeth could have gone a long way to humanize Reg and his motivation.   It would also have served to make him more of a plausible angle in the Mary/Reg/Vince triangle.  And Anne as Elizabeth would have explained Reg's attachment to Vicky.

 

Finally, a nitpick that I have with all return-from-the-dead stories, just once I would like to see a soap play out the beats of how one re-establishes their life after returning from the dead.  It was instantly assumed that Reg owned the Love mansion and controlled the businesses.  However, years earlier Carl had embezzled from the family business and Donna was able to mortgage the house to pay off the debt.  So, it would have been nice to have some explanation about how he was able to immediately repossess all of his belongings, especially after defrauding his investors by escaping to South America.  I've always wanted one scene where a character like Mary has to go to the DMV and try to get a driver's license after being declared missing for years.  Just something to acknowledge that appearing back in town doesn't indicate that all of your rights and properties are immediately returned to their prior ownership.  

 

Speaking of the undesirable focus on the expansion of Michael's family, does anyone recall when the girls went from being Love's to Hudson's?  Vicky was frequently referenced as Vicky Hudson, but she couldn't have been adopted by Michael because the twins turned 18 soon after she arrived in Bay City (when Marley was supposed to receive her trust fund).   So, when did they change their last name?

 

Great post.

 

I wonder, if the internet was around in 1986, would people have been screaming "Scott and Cheryl are brother and sister!!"  I actually wonder the same thing about Tony and Kristen on Days of our Lives.  It was weird back then how Peter Blake called Tony his brother, even though he was no more related to him than Kristen.  Today, they are referred to by the show as brother and sister.

 

Speaking of Scott and Cheryl, I didn't even know until just recently that they had made love right before leaving the show.  I guess it was one of those things where if you blinked, you missed it...and I was away at summer camp.  I wish I had known that because I was a big fan of theirs back in the day, and I would have enjoyed that resolution.  Even at the time, at a very young age, I sensed that they were forced to break up because NBC did not want to let young heroines have sex too quickly.

 

With regards to last names, Another World did that a lot.  A character would suddenly have their proper last name, usually the name of their father.  Dennis Carrington came back as Dennis Wheeler.  Vicky and Marley Love became Hudsons.  Evan Bates became Evan Frame.  And I distinctly remember one episode where Scott called himself Scott Love, although I guess he went back to being Scott LaSalle.  Actually, before Marissa became Mary again, there was a brief period where she was being called, and even referred to herself as, Marissa Love. 

 

This happened under a number of different executive producers and head writers over the course of many years.  I think that certain shows have certain things that just do.  For example, it was the norm on GH to kill off a bad guy, have them quickly come back from the dead, and then quickly kill them for real.  Damien Smith, Katherine Bell, AJ Quartermaine (in 2005, notwithstanding his 2012 return).

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Speaking of the Love family, does anyone recall the source of their family's wealth? 

 

I don't remember any reference to "Love Inc."  I do recall that Peter worked in the legal department at Cory Publishing, Nicole was a model, and Donna dabbled in interior decorating when they were introduced.  However, how did Reginald become so wealthy and why did none of his heirs become involved in the family business?

 

Also, was Michael Hudson's odd foray into spying for a federal agency on Lucas ever fully explained?  Was his tech company just a cover for his spying?  Looking back, Michael and Donna were constant c#*& blockers for Felicia.  From Carl all the way to Lucas, it was wonder she didn't dislike them more. 

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1 hour ago, j swift said:

Speaking of the Love family, does anyone recall the source of their family's wealth? 

 

I don't recall any specific source. I think it was supposed to be Old Money. Donna's income seemed to come from investments and property. I believe she owned the hospital, for example. 

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2 hours ago, j swift said:

Speaking of the Love family, does anyone recall the source of their family's wealth? 

 

I don't remember any reference to "Love Inc."  I do recall that Peter worked in the legal department at Cory Publishing, Nicole was a model, and Donna dabbled in interior decorating when they were introduced.  However, how did Reginald become so wealthy and why did none of his heirs become involved in the family business?

 

Also, was Michael Hudson's odd foray into spying for a federal agency on Lucas ever fully explained?  Was his tech company just a cover for his spying?  Looking back, Michael and Donna were constant c#*& blockers for Felicia.  From Carl all the way to Lucas, it was wonder she didn't dislike them more. 

 

12 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

 

I don't recall any specific source. I think it was supposed to be Old Money. Donna's income seemed to come from investments and property. I believe she owned the hospital, for example. 

I'm going to assume Reginald was also somehow involved in real estate/developing, what with the Love Tower. And I think at one point it was actually VICKY (of all people) who owned the hospital.

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8 hours ago, Franko said:

I'm going to assume Reginald was also somehow involved in real estate/developing, what with the Love Tower. And I think at one point it was actually VICKY (of all people) who owned the hospital.

 

I've said this before but I'm glad that the show never went the cliched route and had Vicky lose her money. 

 

(frankly, I wonder if later regimes remembered that Vicky even had big, big money) 

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11 hours ago, StevieM said:

Evan Bates became Evan Frame.

 

Evan's name change was a weird one, because Frame was his mother's last name.  He was already using a variation of his father's last name -- Basttis.  Apparently Evan had originally shortened his last name from Battiis to Bates, as a professional name, or in order to conceal his identity.  I've never know anyone in real life who stopped using their father's last name, and changed to using their mother's last name.   That's bizarre.  

 

I think the writers changed it to Frame because they thought the audience was too stupid to remember Evan was a member of the Frame family.   That sort of thing is insulting to the audience, and makes the show less believable.  

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9 hours ago, Neil Johnson said:

 

Evan's name change was a weird one, because Frame was his mother's last name.  He was already using a variation of his father's last name -- Basttis.  Apparently Evan had originally shortened his last name from Battiis to Bates, as a professional name, or in order to conceal his identity.  I've never know anyone in real life who stopped using their father's last name, and changed to using their mother's last name.   That's bizarre.  

 

I think the writers changed it to Frame because they thought the audience was too stupid to remember Evan was a member of the Frame family.   That sort of thing is insulting to the audience, and makes the show less believable.  

I am kind of thinking the opposite.  Since Bates was not a legit name and he was exposed being Janice Frame's son, he may have wanted to adopt the name.  Also, I think the writers gave him the Frame name since it was a legacy popular family name on the show and keeping with tradition (not that the families were valued on the show much anymore).

 

Dennis Carrington switching his name to Dennis Wheeler was stupid.  Considering he returned to the show in 1989 under the name Carrington and as an adult and then a few years later his name now is Wheeler.?  Alex Wheelr was indeed his real father.. 

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1 hour ago, denzo30 said:

Dennis Carrington switching his name to Dennis Wheeler was stupid.  Considering he returned to the show in 1989 under the name Carrington and as an adult and then a few years later his name now is Wheeler.?  Alex Wheelr was indeed his real father.. 

The conundrum in Dennis's case is that he didn't change his last name when he lived in Texas and found out the Alex was his father, nor was he given inheritance rights to the Wheeler estate (I believe those went to his mother and uncle).  Also, when Iris returned to Bay City she didn't call herself Iris Wheeler, by then she was mostly credited as Iris Cory. Finally, when she found out the identity of her mother she certainly was never introduced as Iris Kosloff.

 

Given the co-existing, (and previously discussed) Frankie Frame situation, I can only conclude that Bay City existed in a parallel matronymic culture.  Who knew they were so progressive?    

 

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23 hours ago, j swift said:

The conundrum in Dennis's case is that he didn't change his last name when he lived in Texas and found out the Alex was his father, nor was he given inheritance rights to the Wheeler estate (I believe those went to his mother and uncle).  Also, when Iris returned to Bay City she didn't call herself Iris Wheeler, by then she was mostly credited as Iris Cory. Finally, when she found out the identity of her mother she certainly was never introduced as Iris Kosloff.

 

Given the co-existing, (and previously discussed) Frankie Frame situation, I can only conclude that Bay City existed in a parallel matronymic culture.  Who knew they were so progressive?    

 

Oddly, when Iris returned in 1988, the ending credits list her as Iris Carrington Wheeler.  Carrington was her first husbands name.  I can only conlude that Dynasty was popular and high rated that AW and NBC thought they would attract and audience with this.  Made no sense

 

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Another World could have lasted a lot longer. Here is my take and what writers could have done to facilitate the show's longevity. It all goes back to the 1970s. Ada should have been given a teenage son who would of course be Rachel's younger brother. The storylines a SORASed Jamie Frame, Rachel's son, played during the seventies and eighties should have been given to that younger brother. Ada would have still been an essential character with her son playing out Jamie's adult storylines, and Big sister Rachel being there as her brother's confidant. Aging Jamie like that back then pushed Rachel into step daughter Iris' age bracket, and as a result, Jamie had to be de-SORASed with Laurence Lau playing the role. SORAS (Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome).
 
If Jamie needed to be aged, then wait until the mid-1980s, and bring in Tom Eplin to play Jamie Frame instead of Jake McKinnon. With a few tweaks, Jamie could have been given the Jake McKinnon role. Jamie would have been age appropriate to play out Jake McKinnon's storylines. It could have been written that he was a spoiled rough around the edges rich kid with a heart of gold without the assault of Marley. Turning Jake into a physical abuser for storyline purposes and having him attack Marley on screen was a huge mistake on the writers' part. Jamie (with Tom Eplin playing him) and Vicky would have been the endgame with Jamie being a wheeling and dealing ladies' man working at Cory Publishing with side hustles like Visions production company and The Bay City Herald newspaper.
 
Nancy McGowan (Sandra Ferguson), Ada's daughter and Rachel's half-sister, could have returned to Bay City instead of aging Rachel and Mac's daughter, Amanda Cory, so soon. Nancy could have played out Amanda's adult storylines while keeping Mac and Rachel as the focal point of Another World's storylines and keeping Ada relevant and giving her plenty to do.
 
The writers could have brought back Amanda as a teenager during the nineties and would have been age appropriate to play out Maggie Cory's 1990s teen storylines. Amanda was born on screen in 1979. Jamie (with Tom Eplin playing him) could have been there for his teenage sister, Amanda, as a father figure and protector, similar to Joe and Sofia Carlino's brother and sister relationship. It would have made sense to have 90s teen Amanda have disagreements with mom Rachel.
 
Had the show continued on in the 2000s, Maggie Cory and her brother, Alex Cory, could have been reintroduced as teens, alongside Matthew Cory, who was born on-screen in 1980/1981.
 
Pat Randolph's children, Michael and Marianne, should never have been aged, and lawyer John Randolph should never have been written out of the show, which made Pat irrelevant as a long-term character and pushed her into Iris' age bracket. John should have been kept on AW as a reliable lawyer for Bay City residents, formed a firm with fellow lawyer Brian Bancroft, and reunited with Pat. John could have had a chance to slow down to enjoy life with Pat and their family and pass the torch slowly to new lawyer Cass Winthrop. Pat and John could have been the closest of friends with Mac and Rachel.
 
Michael (with Matt Crane playing him) could have returned to Bay City as a teen during the late eighties and play out Matt Cory's teen and young adult storylines. Marianne (with Allison Hossack playing her) could have returned to Bay City  at the same time and play out Olivia Matthews' young adult storylines.
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It just came to me, and I wanted to share storyline ideas Another World could have capitalized on that would have lengthened the show's run on NBC:
 
Mary Matthews should have never been killed off. She was the core of the Matthews family. As matriarch, Mary still had life in her, and could have had many years of being a sounding board for not only her family but friends as well. She was similar to other soap matriarchs like Alice Horton and Nancy Hughes.
 
Mary deserved a story where she feuded with her sister-in-law, Liz, over Mary's husband, Jim, whom Liz had fallen in love with. The Liz/Jim/Mary love triangle would have brought more mature viewers to AW and given the veterans plenty to do.
 
Sharon Gabet should have been brought in AW as Rachel's half-sister, Pammy Davis, to cause trouble between Mac and Rachel.
 
Bill Matthews should have been resurrected from his 1970 boating accident in California and returned to Bay City at some point. Maybe during the eighties. Instead of Jason Frame, Chris Robinson should have been brought to AW as an entirely different character who ended up being the presumed dead Bill Matthews.
 
Susan Matthews Shearer and Dan Shearer should have been kept around and remained married. Susan was spun off into the Shearer family and had her career as a psychiatrist while Dan was an OB-GYN. To create friction in the marriage, why not introduce Dan's daughter, Barbara, from a previous marriage, to shake up the Shearer household, and have Susan develop feelings for Rachel's younger brother instead of Rachel's son, Jamie, who wouldn't be prematurely aged and still be a minor.
 
Having Bill and Susan around would have made Liz more relevant.
 
Why not make Reginald Love behind Bill's disappearance years prior and the guy Missy and Ricky got involved with years later. It would make sense for Reginald to fake his death and take Missy as his wife and Ricky as his son.
 
The Mary McKinnon stories could have gone to Missy, with Denise Alexander playing the part, and the Scott LaSalle stories going to Ricky, with Hank Cheyne playing the part.
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On 12/16/2020 at 8:17 AM, Neil Johnson said:

 

Evan's name change was a weird one, because Frame was his mother's last name.  He was already using a variation of his father's last name -- Basttis.  Apparently Evan had originally shortened his last name from Battiis to Bates, as a professional name, or in order to conceal his identity.  I've never know anyone in real life who stopped using their father's last name, and changed to using their mother's last name.   That's bizarre.  

 

I think the writers changed it to Frame because they thought the audience was too stupid to remember Evan was a member of the Frame family.   That sort of thing is insulting to the audience, and makes the show less believable.  

 

It really isn't bizarre at all. I know a number of instances where people have changed their surnames like this. My husband's nephew did. He assumed his mother's maiden name because he wanted no ties with his mentally and physically abusive father.

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On 12/22/2020 at 8:41 AM, robbwolff said:

 

It really isn't bizarre at all. I know a number of instances where people have changed their surnames like this. My husband's nephew did. He assumed his mother's maiden name because he wanted no ties with his mentally and physically abusive father.

 

According to Gerry Waggett's AW trivia book, Robert Kelly added his mother's maiden name of Kelker for his stage moniker. Not only because there was already another Robert Kelly in the actors' union, but because his father had left him and his mother. That was his way of distancing himself emotionally from his father. 

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Years before she trying to get some sense into Rachel, Ada (Constance Ford) was letting Sandra Dee know who's the boss at Christmas

 

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