Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Auntie Viv, Steve Olsen and Jackée all having comedic adventures. In the tiny bench and the same spot at HTS. Ron C couldn't do it justice. Those fun adventures from the 80's were so well done.

Edited by victoria foxton
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 6.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

On 12/10/2020 at 5:08 PM, Soaplovers said:

It's why her 1989 visits were probably well received.  She had longer hair, was warm, and confident.  

 

@vetsoapfanwould you say that the Alice of 1989 was more in line with how her Alice was back in the 60s and early 70s?

 

I could understand her more colder approach in 1984 to 1985 since she was steeling herself to return to Bay City and facing Rachel.  Had the writers studied her history...they could have written the character in that light while slowly letting her guard down the longer she stayed in Bay City.

 

Yes, Courtney's returns in 1989 saw Alice being more Alice-y, IMHO. And her hair was back to normal, thank heavens.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/27/2018 at 4:34 PM, Xanthe said:

Regarding Vince's face -- Mary was dead during the first Vince (Jack Ryland) and really only experienced Duke Stroud and Robert Hogan.

 

 

 

Duke Stroud was fine as Vince in the way that Frank Parker was fine as Grandpa Shawn Brady on Days of our Lives.  He was well-cast to be the patriarch of the McKinnon family, and he had good father-daughter chemistry with his children.

 

Ben Hogan also had a good connection with the actors playing Vince's daughters.  He had superior chemistry with characters like Ada and Felicia.  And he came across much more like a leading man who was ready for a major storyline that he was at the center of.

 

In the end, none of this mattered too much.  What really mattered is that Duke had absolutely no chemistry IMO with Denise Alexander.  Robert Hogan was a much better match for Denise.  And I think having the story begin with Duke Stroud in the role of Vince prevented it from taking off as much as it might have, although I must admit it was the story that got me watching the show.  There were also some problems with the writing, of course.

 

What would have been amazing would have been if Chris Robinson, who had played opposite Denise Alexander as her husband Rick Webber on GH, had been cast in the role of Vince.  He left GH at the end of September 1986.  Vince came face to face with Mary for the first time in early October 1986.  Imagine if AW had immediately recast the role and his first day was the day that Vince and Mary had reunited.  I actually think he would have been well-cast as Vince McKinnon.  He was somewhat of a combination between Stroud and Hogan.  And I think he could have done good things with the part.

 

You know that AW would have loved it because they eventually went out and got Robinson to play Jason Frame.  And they immediately put Jason into a story with Mary.  I think it would have been better if he had just been brought in as a recast of Vince McKinnon.  I suppose they also could have brought him in when they brought Vince back in early 1987 played by Hogan after the character had been off screen for a couple of months.  I suppose it is possible that they tried but he wasn't interested at that point. 

 

Mind you, I liked Ben Hogan a lot in the role.  He played the part of Vince well.  But reuniting Chris and Denise would have been too good an opportunity to pass up.  

Edited by StevieM
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/28/2018 at 7:18 PM, j swift said:

Excellent point, Mary's growth is the one part of that story that I can appreciate

 

Another excellent point, I hadn't thought about the fact that Michael wasn't there for the birth of the twins (or triplets?) and I haven't done the math to see how long Mary worked in the house before she hightailed it to Paraguay.

 

Two points from my re-watch, when Mary-Marissa was first shown in South America there was at least some initial conflict.  Mary-Marissa believed that her husband was funding her charity work and that was important to her.  She seemed sophisticated  and comfortable in her role as an ex-pat socialite.  The scenes in her villa prior to arriving in Bay City only lasted a few episodes.  I guess that's what drove her to further her education? 

 

However, I do not appreciate that Mary never got a financial settlement from Reginald.  It was seen as a character building exercise for Mary that she refused Reg's money but I reject that narrative.  Reg stole many of Mary's good years and she deserved some cash for her troubles. 

 

What story brings in MJ?  I read that she dated Stephen Yate's Jamie.

 

There was actually a scene, early on in the storyline, where Cass recommended to Mary that she file a personal injury lawsuit against Reginald.  Little did they know just how responsible he was for her loss of memory.  I believe it was ultimately concluded that Reginald had his doctor deliberately damage her memory.

 

On 1/28/2018 at 8:46 AM, teplin said:

 

Yes, that character was badly conceived, badly written and badly played by John Considine. He might as well have been twirling his mustache every time he was on screen, he was so over-the-top eeeevil. That made it hard to sympathize with Mary and her choices, even though Denise Alexander had audiences in her pocket from day one in her previous soap roles. I think Alexander made the best of what she was given, but the show really failed to capitalize on her appeal.

 

I agree that the story was loaded with potential that was wasted.  To be fair, it was the story that first got me watching the show.  But it could have been much better.  

 

I think it would have been interesting if they could have persuaded Chris Robinson to take the role of Vince in early October 1986, right after he left GH in late September.  He could have started on the day that Mary and Vince first came face to face after 17 years.  As I wrote above, I liked Ben Hogan in the role.  But reuniting Denise and Chris in a love story, where they were the couple to root for, would have been a great opportunity.  I think it would have worked much better than bringing him in as Jason Frame.

 

As for Reginald, I wish he had been written more like Victor Kiriakis from Days of our Lives (80s version).  In other words, as a mobster.  I also think they should have gotten an older actor to play him.  And speaking of older actors, it would also have been good if Mary's parents were still alive when she came back.  That would have added more emotion to the story, and possibly opened the door for creating another core family.  I don't remember if they ever explained whether her parents died before she left, or if they both died thinking that they had outlived her.  

Edited by StevieM
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, StevieM said:

I think Alexander made the best of what she was given, but the show really failed to capitalize on her appeal.

 

In my opinion, Denise Alexander should never have played Mary at all.  She should have been cast as the returning Melissa Matthews -- daughter-in-law of Liz.  Missy could have returned with her son.  The natural conflict between Melissa and Liz would have been wonderful, and far more interesting than some unbelievable return-from-the-dead plot, and a brand new character nobody really cared about.   

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, StevieM said:

I agree that the story was loaded with potential that was wasted.  To be fair, it was the story that first got me watching the show.  But it could have been much better.  

Looking back, I think there were some key elements missing from the setup of the plot and the payoff was deeply unsatisfying.  This was mostly due to recasts and other production elements that were beyond the control of the writers.  On paper, meeting the patriarch of the Love family and having him be involved with the matriarch of the McKinnons was intriguing, but the execution was flawed.  I think fans were ultimately disappointed when a plot that should have established the backstory cannon of the Loves and the McKinnons turned into the expansion of the Hudson clan and the conflict between brothers John and Michael.

 

First, the children that were most affected by Mary's absence were not the central focus of the story.  There was a lot of hubbub regarding Reginald's return on the relationship of Donna and Michael (whom by all rights should have already bought their own penthouse and moved out from living with her adult brother and sister long before Reg even came to town).  Cheryl, Vicky and Marley really should have been the center of the story.  AWHP reports that Mary came on in August 1986, but Marly left the first time in September 1986 for a year, Vicky left in December (who would have know Rhonda Lewin would have been such a flop) and Cheryl left (with Scott) by July 1988 after being backburned for a few awhile.  MJ was given most of the dialogue about accepting her missing mother back into the fold, but there was very little exploration into how the loss of her mother played into her youthful indiscretions into porn and drugs.   However, I think the show missed a beat by not focusing enough of the storyline on the impact on the youngest kids. 

 

It has already been mentioned that Donna's de-evolution into a weeping victim damaged her as a character in ways that could only have been resolved by Anna Stuart's return to the role and the ensuing retrograde amnesia of never mentioning Reg again.  However, having Cheryl and/or Marley being terrorized by Reg would have fit better with those characters.  Then, an emboldened Donna and Mary could have helped them fight back.

 

I also agree that more exploration into the marriage of Elizabeth and Reginald, through the eyes of Jason Frame and Mary McKinnon would have been preferable.  The whole timeline of when they both left (and why) was resolved through exposition which was very unsatisfying.  Imagine how great a set of flashbacks with Anne Heche as Elizabeth and Tom Eplin as a young Reg to let viewer see their relationship would have been?  The loss of Elizabeth could have gone a long way to humanize Reg and his motivation.   It would also have served to make him more of a plausible angle in the Mary/Reg/Vince triangle.  And Anne as Elizabeth would have explained Reg's attachment to Vicky.

 

Finally, a nitpick that I have with all return-from-the-dead stories, just once I would like to see a soap play out the beats of how one re-establishes their life after returning from the dead.  It was instantly assumed that Reg owned the Love mansion and controlled the businesses.  However, years earlier Carl had embezzled from the family business and Donna was able to mortgage the house to pay off the debt.  So, it would have been nice to have some explanation about how he was able to immediately repossess all of his belongings, especially after defrauding his investors by escaping to South America.  I've always wanted one scene where a character like Mary has to go to the DMV and try to get a driver's license after being declared missing for years.  Just something to acknowledge that appearing back in town doesn't indicate that all of your rights and properties are immediately returned to their prior ownership.  

 

Speaking of the undesirable focus on the expansion of Michael's family, does anyone recall when the girls went from being Love's to Hudson's?  Vicky was frequently referenced as Vicky Hudson, but she couldn't have been adopted by Michael because the twins turned 18 soon after she arrived in Bay City (when Marley was supposed to receive her trust fund).   So, when did they change their last name?

Edited by j swift
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, j swift said:

Finally, a nitpick that I have with all return-from-the-dead stories, just once I would like to see a soap play out the beats of how one re-establishes their life after returning from the dead. 

 

I hate return from the dead plots, but the most believable return was that of Bill Bauer on Guiding Light.  I remember scenes in which Bert Bauer was being forced to return Bill's life insurance payment, and what a financial problem that was for her -- especially since they did not plan to live as a married couple again, and Bert was still ostensibly living as a widow.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just popping in to mention that Chris Robinson's last GH episodes were actually the week of Thanksgiving 1986. I see Vince McKinnon was gone from Dec. 1986-Jan. 1987 (to facilitate the recast from Stroud to Hogan). Seems like that would have been an ideal time to introduce Robinson. While we're on the subject, I want to say he *was* actually considered for Vince or another parental role (but didn't want to play the father of an adult?).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking back at 1986 the show took on a lot trying to tell 2 back from the dead stories with amnesia thrown in.

Of the two families involved both the mainstays of the Loves -  Donna and Marley/Victoria would be (badly) recast within the year and Peter was already on his 3rd recast with a new personality to boot. Nicole had already come and gone and the returned with a recast who made little impression and was dropped.

The McKinnons had a recently recast MJ and Vince, Kathleen was gone by years end,as was Jake. Cheryl appeared out of nowhere and Ben never bothered to come back.

So there really wasn't a strong backdrop for the return of these parents.

DePriest said AW would be the story of the McKinnons, Loves and Cory's but didn't really nuture and strengthen those families.

4 minutes ago, Franko said:

While we're on the subject, I want to say he *was* actually considered for Vince or another parental role (but didn't want to play the father of an adult?).

I recall something along those lines or was it that he didn't want too be a recast?

Jason was supposed to have two daughters arrive at some point I think.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Jason Frame was supposed to have two daughters.  I think it got lost in the change of writers from Sheri Anderson to Harding Lemay with the writer's strike thrown in too.  I suspect Harding Lemay changed Jason's two daughters into the return of Sharlene and Josie to Bay City.

 

There was also a change in executive producer at this time from John Whitesell to Michael Laibson in March 1988.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, watson71 said:

Jason Frame was supposed to have two daughters.  I think it got lost in the change of writers from Sheri Anderson to Harding Lemay with the writer's strike thrown in too.  I suspect Harding Lemay changed Jason's two daughters into the return of Sharlene and Josie to Bay City.

 

There was also a change in executive producer at this time from John Whitesell to Michael Laibson in March 1988.

 

Harding Lemay did not contradict that Jason had daughters.  But he may not have had the inclination to bring them to town.  Or maybe he planned to, but didn't have time in his two months as official head writer.   Donna Swajeski still could have added them to the cast, but clearly chose not to.  But I will say -- there were probably enough Frames in town.  Especially after Evan Bates admitted to being Janice's son.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Franko said:

Just popping in to mention that Chris Robinson's last GH episodes were actually the week of Thanksgiving 1986. I see Vince McKinnon was gone from Dec. 1986-Jan. 1987 (to facilitate the recast from Stroud to Hogan). Seems like that would have been an ideal time to introduce Robinson. While we're on the subject, I want to say he *was* actually considered for Vince or another parental role (but didn't want to play the father of an adult?).

 

Thanks!!  I got my GH dates from IMDB, but they do have a lot that is wrong/missing.  

 

Robinson coming in as Vince McKinnon in early 1987 when the role was first recast would indeed have been ideal.  Or if he had left GH a year earlier then maybe he would have been available sooner, assuming he was willing to consider the part.  Maybe if AW offered to let him take on the role from the beginning of the "Who is Marissa LaSalle" story he would have said yes, especially if they made a really good pitch to him.  As I said, the story had a load of potential.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Community Activity

    1. 10,271

      Y&R: Old Articles

    2. 3,226

      Coronavirus/Covid-19 Discussion Thread

    3. 32,633

      Bravo's The Real Housewives of....

    4. 2,190

      Santa Barbara Discussion Thread

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy