Jump to content

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

 

I think a pairing could have worked with Jacquie and Douglass, but a triangle with Steve or a quad with Rachel is one of those "soapy" ideas that is better off left to fan fiction.

 

TPTB had and missed a great opportunity in 1985 when Rachel got amnesia and spurned Mac- even moving out of the Cory mansion for a time.  Mac and  Alice could have started seeing each other again.  Jacqueline Courtney was released from the show at this time, and AW missed a big opportunity for a great storyline.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 6.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

4 hours ago, watson71 said:

 

TPTB had and missed a great opportunity in 1985 when Rachel got amnesia and spurned Mac- even moving out of the Cory mansion for a time.  Mac and  Alice could have started seeing each other again.  Jacqueline Courtney was released from the show at this time, and AW missed a big opportunity for a great storyline.

 

It is quite baffling how much TPTB TOTALLY botched Jacquie Courtney's return to the show. They completely screwed it up. I'd love to know what was going on behind the scenes at that time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

It is quite baffling how much TPTB TOTALLY botched Jacquie Courtney's return to the show. They completely screwed it up. I'd love to know what was going on behind the scenes at that time.

I recently rewatched 1984-85 and I wouldn't say her return was botched.  Alice returned much stronger, had a career, was mentor to Thomasina, was involved in Sally's story and had a romance with Mark. It thought she fit in seamlessly after being away from Bay City for so many years.  Once Gary Tomlin and Richard Culliton left in early 1985 the writing went downhill for everyone and Alice was a casualty.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Efulton said:

I recently rewatched 1984-85 and I wouldn't say her return was botched.  Alice returned much stronger, had a career, was mentor to Thomasina, was involved in Sally's story and had a romance with Mark. It thought she fit in seamlessly after being away from Bay City for so many years.  Once Gary Tomlin and Richard Culliton left in early 1985 the writing went downhill for everyone and Alice was a casualty.  

 

I did not mean that TPTB literally botched the character's opening scenes upon returning in May, 1984. I did feel, however, that once Alice was back in Bay City, the show failed to use her properly. The romance with Mark was a bust (IMHO) because even though the actor playing him was competent, there was no fire; no chemistry with Courtney. Mark was bland, not a leading man. More than being a supportive ear for Sally, Alice should have had a strong story of her own. Plus, she was given a hideous/butch haircut and dressed in ugly mannish clothes that were inappropriate.

 

Writer Gary Tomlin later said in an interview that he did not know much about Alice's storyline history and her relationship with Rachel, so left that unmined. (Although AW finally did use a bit it when Rachel got amnesia and grilled Alice about their shared past, but it was too little, too late).

 

I felt that the show made one bad decision after another, so the entire return ended up a failure.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I did not mean that TPTB literally botched the character's opening scenes upon returning in May, 1984. I did feel, however, that once Alice was back in Bay City, the show failed to use her properly. The romance with Mark was a bust (IMHO) because even though the actor playing him was competent, there was no fire; no chemistry with Courtney. Mark was bland, not a leading man. More than being a supportive ear for Sally, Alice should have had a strong story of her own. Plus, she was given a hideous/butch haircut and dressed in ugly mannish clothes that were inappropriate.

 

Writer Gary Tomlin later said in an interview that he did not know much about Alice's storyline history and her relationship with Rachel, so left that unmined. (Although AW finally did use a bit it when Rachel got amnesia and grilled Alice about their shared past, but it was too little, too late).

 

I felt that the show made one bad decision after another, so the entire return ended up a failure.

I totally agree that she needed a much better romance with some fire.  They should have put her with a younger man to do something unexpected with the character.  After a few years of bad writing I really enjoyed Dec 1982 - to Feb 1985 so i probably ignored some of the questionable writing decisions because overall the show had improved so much.

Edited by Efulton
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Efulton said:

I totally agree that she needed a much better romance with some fire.  They should have put her with a younger man to do something unexpected with the character.  After a few years of bad writing I really enjoyed Dec 1982 - to Feb 1985 so i probably ignored some of the questionable writing decisions because overall the show had improved so much.

 

Overall, I do agree that the show had improved. That's why I was excited to return to Bay City full time when Jacquie Courtney returned in 1984. While I appreciated various other aspects of the series, I just could not figure out what the writers and producers (not to mention the hair and wardrobe departments) were trying to do with Alice.

 

I think Gary Tomlin was irresponsible and/or lazy not to study up extensively of Alice's history and relationships. If Susan Lucci returned to AMC after a 9-year absence, I'd expect the writers to read up up who Erica Kane was, dress her fabulously, and create some exciting stories for her with a dynamic leading man.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Alice should have had a strong story of her own. Plus, she was given a hideous/butch haircut and dressed in ugly mannish clothes that were inappropriate.

 

Tastes vary, but I have to say that I thought Alice's style was beautifully modern and appropriate for her as the mature and confident doctor she was. She could however have had a more interesting storyline than her relationship with Mark Singleton. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

 

Tastes vary, but I have to say that I thought Alice's style was beautifully modern and appropriate for her as the mature and confident doctor she was. She could however have had a more interesting storyline than her relationship with Mark Singleton. 

I didn't mind her short hair either.  It was a bit shocking when she first appeared but she had such a beautiful face that it worked for her.  Now the jet black hair she had at the 50th anniversary of soaps is another story..

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

 

Tastes vary, but I have to say that I thought Alice's style was beautifully modern and appropriate for her as the mature and confident doctor she was. She could however have had a more interesting storyline than her relationship with Mark Singleton. 

 

The day of her return in May, 1984, I agree: her hair was modern, chic and appropriate. Jacquie Courtney herself had joked that as she got older, having long hair made her look like "an aging cheerleader," LOL! It was only later, her hair got significantly shorter until it became a hacked-up, ultra-short  Peter-Pan hairdo. There was one scene in the Matthews' living room, when she was playing with her grandson, and her hair looked both way too short (like a chemo patient) and plastered to her head, as if it had been heaped with grease. Yuck!

 

11 minutes ago, Efulton said:

I didn't mind her short hair either.  It was a bit shocking when she first appeared but she had such a beautiful face that it worked for her.  Now the jet black hair she had at the 50th anniversary of soaps is another story..

 

I was happy to see her and George Reinholt reunite for that special (and screamed in delight when the show aired a long-thought-lost flashback of Steve and Alice from 1974!), but that hair? Good grief! If she had kept the pretty, short-but-not-too-short style, color and length she had had when she first came back to AW, I would have preferred that.

 

When Courtney later returned to AW in brief guest appearances, she never again had frightening hair issues.

Link to post
Share on other sites

JC was only 38 when she returned. 

Still young enough to be front and center. I guess the fact that she now had an adult child made them portray her as a more conservative type of character.

Times have changed and now 38 year olds and older are now presented in a different light eg Laura Wright, Michelle Stafford etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

frightening hair issues

 

Speaking of hair, I remember being extremely disappointed in Rachel's makeover in 1986 when the return of Mitch had made her peevish and discontented and she went to a famous hairstylist. I hated that ultra-straight look. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

 

Speaking of hair, I remember being extremely disappointed in Rachel's makeover in 1986 when the return of Mitch had made her peevish and discontented and she went to a famous hairstylist. I hated that ultra-straight look. 

 

I loved Victoria Wyndham. But over the years, she had some of the most terrible hairstyles (mostly curly perms) of any soap star.  They didn't do that to Susan Lucci, Erica Slezak, or Kathryn Hays.  Sometimes I look at old photos and videos of VW, and I'm almost embarrassed for her.  Sadly, it was almost as if somebody was experimenting with her hair.   

Edited by Neil Johnson
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

JC was only 38 when she returned. 

Still young enough to be front and center. I guess the fact that she now had an adult child made them portray her as a more conservative type of character.

Times have changed and now 38 year olds and older are now presented in a different light eg Laura Wright, Michelle Stafford etc.

 

Right, and what TPTB have often failed to understand over the years is that the audience does NOT care about age as much as "the suits" think we do. No matter how much Susan Lucci, Erika Slezak, Kathryn Hays, Deidre Hall, Jess Walton, Susan Flannery, etc., aged over the decades (as we all did), viewers continued to want to see them front and center. Perhaps not five days a week, 52 weeks a year, but we wanted them to be tent-pole figures on their shows. The same with Courtney. You don't bring a major star back to her show and then keep her in the background with lackluster material. 

 

3 hours ago, Xanthe said:

 

Speaking of hair, I remember being extremely disappointed in Rachel's makeover in 1986 when the return of Mitch had made her peevish and discontented and she went to a famous hairstylist. I hated that ultra-straight look. 

 

Over the years, however, poor Wyndham had worse hair styles!

  

2 hours ago, Neil Johnson said:

 

I loved Victoria Wyndham. But over the years, she had some of the most terrible hairstyles (mostly curly perms) of any soap star.  They didn't do that to Susan Lucci, Erica Slezak, or Kathryn Hays.  Sometimes I look at old photos and videos of VW, and I'm almost embarrassed for her.  Sadly, it was almost as if somebody was experimenting with her hair.   

 

True. Maybe that's what they were doing with Courtney's hair and "look" during the year she returned full-time. Wyndham's curly perms were truly awful. Yikes!

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

Wyndham's curly perms were truly awful. Yikes!

Well it was the 80's and many soap ladies fell victim to the perm plague in that era.

 I was never a fan of any of Victoria wyndham's hairstyles over the years right up to her final look with the straight dark locks.

I think she had one of those faces that it was difficult to style for . It would probably take a real expert to come up with something that was really flattering.

Some Rachel looks over the years.

ltEKreUqKAiUXi_qlED3bUVyUVq1tWBaKUFeDW0Ovictoria_wyndham.jpgVICTORIA WYNDHAM SMILING PORTRAIT ANOTHER WORLD ORIGINAL COLOR 1976 NBC TV PHOTOs-l1600.jpg

Victoria Wyndham

Victoria Wyndham

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

JC was only 38 when she returned. 

 

Are you sure that age is correct?  George Reinhold was 36, when he was fired from AW in 1975.  That would make a big age difference between GR and JC -- eight years, it seems.  I'd always assumed they were around the same age.   You may be correct, but I'm surprised she was that young.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.