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8 hours ago, Xanthe said:

 

Frame Harding Construction seemed much smaller than Cory Publishing, but what was Blackhawk? I was under the impression that Steve came back from the dead wealthier than he had been. 

 

Blackhawk was huge.  A multinational conglamerate.  IIRC, Steve's own words when he saw Rachel for the first time and explained what had happened to him.  They were into manufacturing, shipping, etc.  Then he got into other stuff like gold.  Basically everything he touched worked out.  I saw these scenes again in the last few months.  I was watching in 81 and have seen them since, but I remember the conversation pretty well since it was so recent.

 

Hard for me to believe Mac had that beat.  Mind you, I didn't tell you they stayed consistent about it.  If this was the case with Steve, why did one building going down, in the summer of 82, basically bankrupt him?  What was the name of it?  Something towers.  They had made a big deal that it was a huge project.  However, if the company is that big and diversified one building going down should not have wiped him out.

 

Frame/Harding was nothing.  That's Steve starting all over from ground zero again.  Eventually it grew after Steve died again, but in late 82 it's in it's infancy.

 

I didn't realize that Mac was that much wealthier in the 70s.  I could only watch around school then although if I came right home I could catch the last half of the Doctors and all of AW.  Sure wasn't watching every day, though, like in 81.

I remember the first Mac before Watson took over.  I remember seeing the episode where Alice overheard Steve and Rachel, thought something was going on when there wasn't and left town.  But day to day, no.

 

Anyway, I don't ever remember comparing the two as far as who was richer.  I thought Steve was pretty rich at the time. Certainly not arguing that he was as rich as Mac.  Again, I never really compared and don't remember the show doing it.  I know that Mac helped Steve get his money back after Tim Mcgowan embezzled it.

 

But in 1981 they were saying that Steve was pretty damn rich.

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On 10/29/2020 at 12:54 PM, Neil Johnson said:

 

I watched in '81 too.  And yes, they really screwed-up a lot of history with Steve's return.  When neither the writers nor the actors know the history of a storyline, it's difficult to get it right.  Paul Rauch and Vicky Wyndham would have known the details, but both had probably thrown-up their hands in exhaustion by that time.   

 

Theresa was Carol Lamont's mother and a socialite friend of Iris from back east.  Theresa was diagnosed with a terminal illness while visiting Iris in Bay City, and died on the patio of Iris's mansion.   

 

So Theresa and Carol died the same month?  WOW

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Carol Lamonte didn't die, she left Bay City in October 1976 after breaking up with Willis Frame, her lover after Robert Delaney dumped her. Her mother Therese was still living with Iris, and died in late November 1976.  I was probably too young to really appreciate her death scene, but it was  definitely a memorable one.

 

(Thanks to the Another World Home Page for refreshing my memory on some of the details.)

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2 hours ago, rick55 said:

I saw these scenes again in the last few months.  I was watching in 81 and have seen them since, but I remember the conversation pretty well since it was so recent.

 

Thanks. Was it a good idea to resurrect Steve and pair him with Rachel? My recollection of that period is dim,  and I just remember feeling more comfortable when Rachel was with Mac. 

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On 10/30/2020 at 9:34 PM, Xanthe said:

 

Thanks. Was it a good idea to resurrect Steve and pair him with Rachel? My recollection of that period is dim,  and I just remember feeling more comfortable when Rachel was with Mac. 

I recently rewatched 1981 on YouTube and I thought the setup for Steve’s return was well done.  Alice had returned to Bay City with Sally then got engaged to Mac.  Jamie felt that he had been replaced at Cory Publishing and in Mac’s  life by Sandy.  Rachel was debating moving away with Mitch and was not happy about Alice and Mac being together.  Steve returned and caused drama for all of them.  If George Reinholt and Jacqueline Courtney had returned as Steve and Alice I think it could have worked.  Corinne Jacker replacing L. Virginia Brown as head writer soon after Steve returned wrecked things as well. 

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Had they got George R to return then maybe the story might have worked,Jacquie was popular at OLTL so wouldn't return but at least having 2 of the triangle long standing players would have been better. Tina Sloan would have been a better Alice than Linda Borgeson.

Alas, it was not to be.

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4 hours ago, BuckyB12 said:

Carol Lamonte didn't die, she left Bay City in October 1976 after breaking up with Willis Frame, her lover after Robert Delaney dumped her. Her mother Therese was still living with Iris, and died in late November 1976.  I was probably too young to really appreciate her death scene, but it was  definitely a memorable one.

 

(Thanks to the Another World Home Page for refreshing my memory on some of the details.)

 

The only reason Carol left was down to the actress wanting to return to the stage. Lemay and Rauch loved casting theater actors but the price the show paid in the long-term was many people who had no interest in long-term stints. 

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On 10/31/2020 at 12:51 AM, Efulton said:

I recently rewatched 1981 on YouTube and I thought the setup for Steve’s return was well done.  Alice had returned to Bay City with Sally then got engaged to Mac.  Jamie felt that he had been replaced at Cory Publishing and in Mac’s  life by Sandy.  Rachel was debating movie away with Mitch and was not happy about Alice and Mac being together.  Steve returned and caused drama for all of them.  If George Reinholt and Jacqueline Courtney had returned as Steve and Alice I think it could have worked.  Corinne Jacker replacing L. Virginia Brown as head writer soon after Steve returned wrecked things as well. 

 

Thanks. Did they present Rachel and Steve as if their relationship had been and was now true love or was it a mess of motivations? I was just watching Oct 1 where Mac told Rachel he was engaged to Alice and Rachel was completely ungracious about it. I assumed that we were seeing that Rachel was not perfect and that Mac was right when he said he didn't think Rachel was unbiased about Alice. That seems more interesting than the idea of the perfect love story of Rachel and Steve after years of cruel and unfair separation.

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1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

 

Thanks. Did they present Rachel and Steve as if their relationship had been and was now true love or was it a mess of motivations? I was just watching Oct 1 where Mac told Rachel he was engaged to Alice and Rachel was completely ungracious about it. I assumed that we were seeing that Rachel was not perfect and that Mac was right when he said he didn't think Rachel was unbiased about Alice. That seems more interesting than the idea of the perfect love story of Rachel and Steve after years of cruel and unfair separation.

That was one thing that felt off to me.  Steve doesn't choose Rachel over Alice.  Of course, this isn't the same Alice or Steve.  Still, I watched when there was no doubt who Steve loved.  But Rachel was also a heroine now.

 

I never got why Steve had to be killed again.  Just have him leave town like Alice did.  Diana had left town months earlier.  You break Rachel and Steve up and he decides to leave town.  They had a big argument over Rachel putting money into his company, without his knowledge, a few weeks before he died.

 

Lynda Hirsch wrote at the time that they did some survey and people wanted Mac and Rachel together.  Okay, that doesn't mean you have to kill Steve.  He and Rachel had just gotten together a couple months back.

This wouldn't have been like breaking Steve and Alice up, in 1975, rather than killing Steve.

 

I just think they closed the door unnecessarily.  Courtney came back a year later, maybe they could have done the same with Reinholt.  Or maybe not.  Maybe Steve stays gone for the rest of the show like Pat Matthews did.   At least they'd have the option, though.

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You make an interesting point about killing Steve, although permanently sending him out of town would serve the same purpose plot-wise, I think you have to get rid of Steve in order to have the double wedding with Blaine and Sandy become a refreshing of the show.  If Steve was always around as possibility then Mac becomes a second choice rather than the endgame that AW lore posited him to be for Rachel.

 

I'm still amazed that they didn't kill off Mitch after his first stint.  As Matthew's father Mitch was much more of a potential threat to Mac and Rachel happiness.  However, as I recall, Mitch's return in 1986 did not have a significant impact on their relationship.  Rachel was annoyed by his presence, and it affected her relationship with Felicia, but overall Mitch's return was kind of a dud.  If it wasn't for his long lost brother and mother, I think they would have cut their losses and shipped him off to Africa much sooner.  But I am bias because I've never liked characters whose sole trait is that they are brooding.

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22 minutes ago, j swift said:

I'm still amazed that they didn't kill off Mitch after his first stint.  As Matthew's father Mitch was much more of a potential threat to Mac and Rachel happiness.

 

In what sense? Steve was Jamie's father, so wouldn't he and Mitch be even in that respect? At least Steve never plotted to kill Mac (although I suppose Rachel had an extraordinary capacity to tolerate that in a suitor, all things considered).

 

I never much cared for Mitch and would rather have let Felicia keep Zane, at least until Lorna and Lucas showed up. 

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1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

In what sense? Steve was Jamie's father, so wouldn't he and Mitch be even in that respect? At least Steve never plotted to kill Mac (although I suppose Rachel had an extraordinary capacity to tolerate that in a suitor, all things considered).

You make an excellent point

 

I guess I was thinking of Mitch as a threat because he pinned for Rachel, whereas Steve dismissed her advances (except for his return from the dead, but I think of that as an Aussie doppelgänger).

 

BTW whomever made the point about the Blackhawk value being threatened by a single deal also made a great point.  Couldn't Aussie-Steve leverage his mansion in Bay City and a few of his daughter's horses to cover the loss?  On the other hand, I hope Cory Publishing eventually made the move onto the internet because Brava would be worthless today.

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7 minutes ago, j swift said:

On the other hand, I hope Cory Publishing eventually made the move onto the internet because Brava would be worthless today.

You just made me imagine Iris 2.0 as a Tina Brown/Anna Wintour/Devil Wears Prada type, which would certainly have been fun for her after the Chief and Red Swan business was taken care of.

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15 minutes ago, Franko said:

Iris 2.0 as a Tina Brown/Anna Wintour/Devil Wears Prada type

With Pat as Grace Coddington...

 

Iris 1.0 and Steve 1.0 were never financial wizards.  Steve needed John Randolph or Willis to manage his construction business and Iris used to hang around in a feather peignoir set until noon.  Neither character fit into the late 20th century yuppy business model.  But, it would have been interesting to see the interactions of their recasts.  An Iris/Steve pairing would have driven Rachel and Alice nuts. 

Edited by j swift
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