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I think the GH model really only worked for Santa Barbara, Days, and somewhat OLTL. The bizarre, over the top, adventure, borderline sci-fi storytelling did not work for the other shows. 

 

It just saddening that majority of the soaps (with the exception of Y&R and AMC) lost their identities in the early 80s. ATWT reclaimed their's upon Marland's return and it worked heavily in their favor. 

 

What made this genre so special was that while the model was the same, each show had different elements that made it unique from the next. 

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32 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

I think the GH model really only worked for Santa Barbara, Days, and somewhat OLTL. The bizarre, over the top, adventure, borderline sci-fi storytelling did not work for the other shows. 

 

It just saddening that majority of the soaps (with the exception of Y&R and AMC) lost their identities in the early 80s. ATWT reclaimed their's upon Marland's return and it worked heavily in their favor. 

 

What made this genre so special was that while the model was the same, each show had different elements that made it unique from the next. 

 

I must strenuously disagree about DAYS and OLTL. The wretched sci-fi/fantasy plots did not work for them either, IMHO. Such material may have engendered attention from the press, and even resulted in temporary ratings boosts, but in the long run all the traditional shows were severely crippled by the nonsense. Even GH couldn't sustain the sci-fi camp model, and (IMHO) only survived because Wendy Riche and Claire Labine were miracle workers who salvaged the carcass and returned GH to its traditional roots.

 

As soon as the Ice Princess/Freezing the World dreck began, I knew it would ignite a negative trend on daytime TV and ultimately destroy the genre, and alas...it did.

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44 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I must strenuously disagree about DAYS and OLTL. The wretched sci-fi/fantasy plots did not work for them either, IMHO. Such material may have engendered attention from the press, and even resulted in temporary ratings boosts, but in the long run all the traditional shows were severely crippled by the nonsense. Even GH couldn't sustain the sci-fi camp model, and (IMHO) only survived because Wendy Riche and Claire Labine were miracle workers who salvaged the carcass and returned GH to its traditional roots.

 

As soon as the Ice Princess/Freezing the World dreck began, I knew it would ignite a negative trend on daytime TV and ultimately destroy the genre, and alas...it did.

 

I think looking back we can agree that it did not pan out well for any soaps, but the model did help rating wise for DAYS and OLTL. They aren't my favorite plots either. 

 

Ice Princess was really just a flash in the pan and TPTB on all soaps should've realized that. 

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7 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

 

I think looking back we can agree that it did not pan out well for any soaps, but the model did help rating wise for DAYS and OLTL. They aren't my favorite plots either. 

 

Ice Princess was really just a flash in the pan and TPTB on all soaps should've realized that. 

 

Unfortunately, TIIC never learn. They continue to make the same bone-headed mistakes over and over again, year after year...or decade after decade. 

 

Daytime TV needs a massive transfusion of fresh blood; creative, energetic PTB with vision, who understand that characterization and relatable human emotion are the foundation of successful serialized storytelling.

 

Of course, at this point, it appears to be too late. The soap opera genre as we know it is on life support, slowly-but-relentlessly butchered by those who understood neither soaps nor their core audience. :(

 

 

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Variety is reporting that Procter & Gamble wants in to the streaming business, and has contracted with a production company to "launch a long-form scripted series aimed at boosting themes of gender equality, diversity and inclusion."

 

I can think of a format that would be perfect for that.

 

Anyway, if this is successful -- and the production company says "we're planning to do many of these" shows with P&G -- could streaming of the P&G soap library finally be on the horizon?

 

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/procter-gamble-streaming-video-stone-village-1203483777/

 

 

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24 minutes ago, teplin said:

Variety is reporting that Procter & Gamble wants in to the streaming business, and has contracted with a production company to "launch a long-form scripted series aimed at boosting themes of gender equality, diversity and inclusion."

 

I can think of a format that would be perfect for that.

 

Anyway, if this is successful -- and the production company says "we're planning to do many of these" shows with P&G -- could streaming of the P&G soap library finally be on the horizon?

 

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/procter-gamble-streaming-video-stone-village-1203483777/

 

 

Let's hope. Those are buzzwords, but when P&G tried, they did manage to showcase diversity and inclusion in a way that didn't feel heavy-handed. I wish that could happen now, because we really need it. And yes, I wish we could get those episodes.

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I don't know if this has been discussed here yet but how can I find the famous scene of Rachel telling Alice about the affair while brushing her hair? I have always wanted to see this!!

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2 hours ago, glatwt said:

I don't know if this has been discussed here yet but how can I find the famous scene of Rachel telling Alice about the affair while brushing her hair? I have always wanted to see this!!

 

As far as anyone knows, that material no longer exists in the P&G video archives. The company routinely wiped/erased all their soap episodes up until the late 1970s.

 

In an interview back in 1974, Jacqueline Courtney (Alice) mentioned that she had had kinescopes made of her most important episodes of AW, and I imagine that the engagement party "reveal" would have been a highlight that she wanted to keep. We have no idea for sure, however, and with Courtney's passing, the existence of any kinescopes she had ever had remains in question.

 

Several years ago, AUDIO-ONLY clips of that episode surfaced and were put out on CD by Eddie Drueding, who runs the AW Fan Page. I'm afraid that is all we are going to get.

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5 hours ago, glatwt said:

I don't know if this has been discussed here yet but how can I find the famous scene of Rachel telling Alice about the affair while brushing her hair? I have always wanted to see this!!

AWHP estimates that P&G didn't start saving the tapes until about October 1979, however on Eddie Drueding's YT page there are some audio clips of that famous scene, plus the scene in which Jim tells Mary about what Rachel did and Mary flips out.

Edited by AbcNbc247

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UCLA Film and TV Archive lists as having several pre-wiping period episodes in their archives along with episodes of ATWT. They are listed as not available for public viewing. I assume they do not have the equipment to play those old quad tapes or it's just an excuse to not have to bother with them. 

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4 hours ago, SoapDope said:

UCLA Film and TV Archive lists as having several pre-wiping period episodes in their archives along with episodes of ATWT. They are listed as not available for public viewing. I assume they do not have the equipment to play those old quad tapes or it's just an excuse to not have to bother with them. 

 

Are those on quad tapes or on kinescope/33 mm film? I remember that UCLA also has episodes of "The Guiding Light" and "Edge of Night" also in their archives, but I believe those are listed as 33 mm film. Which, (unfortunately) unless those tapes have been transferred, has likely degraded.

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5 hours ago, zanereed said:

 

Are those on quad tapes or on kinescope/33 mm film? I remember that UCLA also has episodes of "The Guiding Light" and "Edge of Night" also in their archives, but I believe those are listed as 33 mm film. Which, (unfortunately) unless those tapes have been transferred, has likely degraded.

I think I saw quad, but they may be on film. As you said they probably have degraded and might not be able to be played without damage. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

AWHP estimates that P&G didn't start saving the tapes until about October 1979, however on Eddie Drueding's YT page there are some audio clips of that famous scene, plus the scene in which Jim tells Mary about what Rachel did and Mary flips out.

 

I was watching the series "live" back then, and the scene in which Mary found out about Rachel's treachery--and then went berserk--was chilling. Her rage was explosive, and if Rachel had walked into the room at that moment, blood would have been shed. Virginia Dwyer really knocked that scene out of the park.

5 hours ago, zanereed said:

 

Are those on quad tapes or on kinescope/33 mm film? I remember that UCLA also has episodes of "The Guiding Light" and "Edge of Night" also in their archives, but I believe those are listed as 33 mm film. Which, (unfortunately) unless those tapes have been transferred, has likely degraded.

 

The stupidity of keeping ancient material in storage, but never bothering to transfer it over to a format that can be saved and viewed, boggles my mind. Why even hang onto vintage episodes if you KNOW they are just rotting away in the basement? Either do everything you can to upgrade and save them, or auction the episodes off to fans who WILL do the work to save them from disintegrating.

 

UGH.

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11 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

I was watching the series "live" back then, and the scene in which Mary found out about Rachel's treachery--and then went berserk--was chilling. Her rage was explosive, and if Rachel had walked into the room at that moment, blood would have been shed. Virginia Dwyer really knocked that scene out of the park.

Virginia Dwyer is one of the AW actors where I wish more of her work was available to see. From what I've seen and heard, she seemed like a really good actress who likely got a raw deal from Rauch and Lemay. I've always wondered how much of it was her and how much of it was Lemay just not liking her and not liking the fact that she wasn't going to adhere to his style.

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10 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Virginia Dwyer is one of the AW actors where I wish more of her work was available to see. From what I've seen and heard, she seemed like a really good actress who likely got a raw deal from Rauch and Lemay. I've always wondered how much of it was her and how much of it was Lemay just not liking her and not liking the fact that she wasn't going to adhere to his style.

 

I am a huge Lemay fan, but I think his treatment of Dwyer was uncalled for and should have been stopped by Rauch.  Lemay wanted to change Mary's personality and make her a meddling troublemaker (similar to Liz Matthews).  Dwyer, knowing the character's history and position on the show, resisted that.  Although she did play it in some situations -- particularly in Mary's growing dislike for Steve Frame.   In Lemay's early years, Dwyer got a huge amount of screen time playing the traditional matriarch. But by late-1973 Lemay had begun minimizing Dwyer's appearances, often having other characters explain that Mary was "out of town." This happened dozens of times, and sometimes it was obvious her lines had been given to other characters (such as Aunt Liz, Jim, and even Ada). Dwyer even had a rather minimized role in the show's 10th anniversary episode, and was not included in the cast photo from that episode.  As he explains in his book, he brought Liz Matthews back to the show in 1974 (now played by Irene Dailey), and when the actress was successful in the role, he decided to kill-off Mary.  Daily was playing Liz exactly the way he had wanted Dwyer to play Mary. So now, he felt Mary was an unnecessary character.  

 

Virginia Dwyer was a very good actress, and she was essentially AW's leading-lady.  Of course the female romantic lead (in the mid-70s) was Jacquie Courtney.  Killing-off Mary allowed the show to completely shift it's focus (even if unintentionally).  Had Dwyer not been fired, she could have easily played Mary until the show's cancellation.  And I'm sure Mary's presence would have, to some degree, prevented the near complete erosion of the Matthews family from the show.  I'm sure AW would have still evolved and changed focus in the 1980s, and the importance of the Matthews family might have somewhat diminished.  But they would still have been a larger part of the show until the end.  Just as the Hughes on ATWT, the Martins on AMC, and the Hortons on DOOL.  

Edited by Neil Johnson

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