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On 7/19/2019 at 4:21 PM, AbcNbc247 said:

Definitely. I actually preferred Felicia with Zane, then Felicia with Mitch and I’ve seen twice as many episodes with Mitch then with Zane. 

 

Zane was much more appealing than Mitch. (Or perhaps I should say that Patrick Tovatt was a more charismatic performer than William Grey Espy.) Zane was also a much better friend than Brittany deserved.

 

Zane was killed off almost immediately after Mitch came back to Bay City. It seems likely that they thought that, as Matthew's father, Mitch had ties to the Cory family that would serve their priority of focusing on their idea of the core families. I had forgotten this but according to the Another World Home Page synopses, Mitch was also secretly working for Reginald Love at the time. It's really weird reading about all of Mitch's villainy when my memory of the character at this point is just as an emotionless blank consort for Felicia.

Edited by Xanthe
adding a thought & a link

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1 hour ago, danfling said:

Actor Robert Milli, who played Dwayne on Another World, has passed away.   Dewayne was a villain and was murdered by Walter Curtin (Val Dufour).

 

Mr. Milli also appeared on Love Is a Many Splendored Thing, One Life to Live (in two roles), The Guiding Light, and All My Children.

 

It was Wayne Addison, not Dwayne. This reminded me of the Soaps & Serials novelizations. Another World volume 2, "Love's Destiny", included the murder of Wayne Addison. He dated Aunt Liz!

 

I also see among his credits Horatio in Richard Burton's Hamlet. I have been failing to watch that DVD for too long now -- I should get it out.

 

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On 7/19/2019 at 10:34 AM, Efulton said:
 
 
 
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On 7/19/2019 at 10:34 AM, Efulton said:

I wish I could find the interview with DePriest, John Whitesell and Donna Swajeski (she worked at NBC then).  They talked about how the were resetting the show around 3 families (Corys, Loves and McKinnnons) and Cass / Felicia.  They literally bragged about how the cast was almost completely different.

Found it!

 

https://classicsodaw.tumblr.com/post/162125238869/classicsodnews-another-world-makes-its-move

 

While I get the critique in retrospect, (hell it probably could have been predicted from the date of the article's publication), I was thinking that Donna Love would probably not be as beloved if this period had not existed.  During the Sally/Catlin years, Donna was a harpy who seemed older than her years and her character was mostly a spanner who kept other couples from getting together.  However, the post-Catlin story helped flesh out the character and made her more of a sympathetic diva.

 

Also, I hereby reject reactions the suggest that a certain writer or producer "killed off" a legacy family.  The Matthews are a perfect example.  While it is true that new family members could have revived them, by the late 80s there were too few Matthews around Bay City to make a character out of the family as a whole.  They stopped having a home base set, Liz was mostly seen at work, and once Sally died there was not a future generation in town to carry on the legacy (as much as I liked Michael and Maryanne, they were stuck in the 70s and never procreated).  For as much as I liked Pat, I never wished for more character details from her brother Russ.  They were a family that was almost defined by their good nature and that is a ubiquitous characteristic that could be found in many other characters.

 

Lastly, the "Chris Whitesell as boy wonder" PR continues to fascinate me.  His resume before AW was tenuous at best.  The short term SFT stint was never fully explained and therefore why NBC kept placing him in high-level jobs was a mystery.  The comparisons to current producers also are interesting because he was clearly a fan of the genre and wanted to center his career around soaps despite the fact that they were dying off at the time.

Edited by j swift

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47 years ago, on July 21,  1972, Victoria Wyndham made her debut as Rachel Davis.  VW's 25th Anniversary episode in 1997 was probably the last time that AW paid attention to or honored its past history.

 

 

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16 hours ago, j swift said:

Also, I hereby reject reactions the suggest that a certain writer or producer "killed off" a legacy family.  The Matthews are a perfect example.  While it is true that new family members could have revived them, by the late 80s there were too few Matthews around Bay City to make a character out of the family as a whole.  They stopped having a home base set, Liz was mostly seen at work, and once Sally died there was not a future generation in town to carry on the legacy (as much as I liked Michael and Maryanne, they were stuck in the 70s and never procreated).  For as much as I liked Pat, I never wished for more character details from her brother Russ.  They were a family that was almost defined by their good nature and that is a ubiquitous characteristic that could be found in many other characters.

 

You're right, what happened to the Matthews family wasn't any one person's fault. Maybe the writers and producers in the 70's and 80's thought they were boring or played out, but I still think they got a raw deal though. Is it possible that there might have been too many "good" characters in the Matthews family as opposed to "bad" ones?

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The trouble with dropping the core family is that unless you have something strong in place to follow through then the show disintegrates.

Bill Bell introduced the Williams and Abbotts and then the Newmans stepped in when the Williams were dropped.

De Priest and Whitsell were all about the Corys, Loves and McKinnons as the core families when they started.

Then they dropped Nancy and plans to bring on Pam. No sign of Iris.

Mary and Vince departed, Cheryl and MJ were gone, Kathleen killed and Ben never returned, leaving only Jake as a McKinnon.

Reg and Peter were dropped, Nicole turned into a killer, leaving just Donna and the twins.

The Matthews were the original family and should have been a priority throughout. 

Have Pat marry into a new familt a la Jill on Y&R. Bring back Mike and/or Marianne.

Have Russ arrive with a new child (which later happened)

Can't have been any worse than what did play out.

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1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Have Pat marry into a new familt a la Jill on Y&R. Bring back Mike and/or Marianne.

That would've been perfect for Pat, whose departure was, in my opinion one of the stupidest ways to ever write out a character on any soap. Instead of running out of town with her tail between her legs, she should've stayed and fought for her reputation (which in itself was a ridiculous reason. She was tried for murder twice and got off twice; I'm sure people were already talking about her behind her back and no book would've changed that), and could've fallen in love with one of her supporters who had grown children, which could've provided some good conflict for not only the Matthews family, but other characters as well.

 

Oh, what might've been.

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Donna Love's age was always odd because if you do the math she had the twins when she was 16, and they were turning 18 when introduced, which means she was only 34 when returned to Bay City.  However, they always made her a contemporary of Rachel and Felicia who were easily ten years older.  

 

I mention it because the excellent idea of getting Pat to marry into another family would have interesting if Pat went for Reginald Love or Spencer Harrison (RIP the actor today).  She liked vaguely European men and she liked an older man, so either guy would have fit the bill.  I would be excited for Pat to have a power base to avenge her loss of Brava and set a new magazine for a rival of Mac's. 

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On 7/22/2019 at 5:34 AM, Paul Raven said:
 
 
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7 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

De Priest and Whitsell were all about the Corys, Loves and McKinnons as the core families when they started.

Then they dropped Nancy and plans to bring on Pam.

Can you imagine the amount of exposition it would take to re-introduce Pam?

 

"Oh look there's my half-sister Pam who worked on a steamboat casino with my rarely-discussed father who was paid to testify against me by Steve Frame in my custody battle over Jamey.  Not to be confused with Pamela, Steve's wife from his time away from Bay City with whom he had Dianna, who ran off with a stable boy."

Edited by j swift

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On 7/21/2019 at 2:13 PM, j swift said:

Also, I hereby reject reactions the suggest that a certain writer or producer "killed off" a legacy family.

This whole discussion makes me wish for a graph showing the number of family members in the cast for arguably core families and how it changed over time. 

My sense is that the Frames gradually swamped the Matthews, and maybe also families with more women were at a disadvantage -- Alice and Sally used Frame; Julia was Shearer; Rachel and Ada and Nancy get lumped in as if they were Cory. 

One thing I thought was shabby about DePriest's conception of the core was that she essentially obliterated black characters from the scene. In the early 1980s we had Henrietta and Roy, Leo Mars/Abel Marsh, Quinn, Lily, Grant, Carter, and Thomasina. 

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In 1986, John Whitesell and Margaret DePriest introduced the following characters: Adam Cory, Julie Ann Edwards, Zack Edwards, Scott LaSalle, Reginald Love, Cheryl McKinnon, Mary McKinnon, and Chad Rollo

 

They returned the character of Mitch Blake to the show and SORASED Matthew Cory to a tween.  Cecile DePoulignac returned to AW for four months.

 

They recast the following characters:  Jamie Frame, Vicky Hudson, Nicole Love, M.J. McKinnon, and Vince McKinnon

 

The following characters left AW in 1986 while Whitesell and DePriest were  EP and headwriters: Chris Chapin, Neal Cory, Dee Evans, Clarice Ewing, Larry Ewing, Sally Frame, Marley Hudson,  Zane Lindquist, Donna Love, Lily Mason, Liz Matthews, Jake McKinnon, Kathleen McKinnon, Kevin Thatcher, Carter Todd, Thomasina Todd, and Cass Winthrop.

 

Catlin Ewing and Brittany Peterson would leave AW in early January 1987.

Edited by watson71

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3 hours ago, watson71 said:

In 1986, John Whitesell and Margaret DePriest introduced the following characters: Adam Cory, Julie Ann Edwards, Zack Edwards, Scott LaSalle, Reginald Love, Cheryl McKinnon, Mary McKinnon, and Chad Rollo

 

They returned the character of Mitch Blake to the show and SORASED Matthew Cory to a tween.  Cecile DePoulignac returned to AW for four months.

 

They recast the following characters:  Jamie Frame, Vicky Hudson, Nicole Love, M.J. McKinnon, and Vince McKinnon

 

The following characters left AW in 1986 while Whitesell and DePriest were  EP and headwriters: Chris Chapin, Neal Cory, Dee Evans, Clarice Ewing, Larry Ewing, Sally Frame, Marley Hudson,  Zane Lindquist, Donna Love, Lily Mason, Liz Matthews, Jake McKinnon, Kathleen McKinnon, Kevin Thatcher, Carter Todd, Thomasina Todd, and Cass Winthrop.

 

Catlin Ewing and Brittany Peterson would leave AW in early January 1987.

Of the characters introduced I felt Adam was unnecessary - another Cory nobody had heard of. Same with Cheryl.

Zack should have been involved in a serious romance with Quinn. Instead she was killed off

Reg had the potential to be an ongoing antagonist a la early Victor Newman and Alan Spaulding but was turned into a cardboard villian, dragging Peter along with him.

Mary and Vince should have been the new working class matriach/patriach-maybe Vince gets involved with Maisie along the way,instead of killing her off.

Chad was a plot point.

Jamie was a bad recast and was made a doctor for no reason.

The Vicky and Nicole recasts were crucial and neither actress got much of a chance.

 

Of the departures, I think Zane should have stayed around longer - there was still plenty of story for the newlyweds.

Clarice and Larry were probably played out.

I think Jake/Marley/Cass/Kathleen all chose to leave but Ben McKinnon/Vicky could have filled the gap.

As later writers showed Iris and Dennis were viable and should have come back sooner to strengthen the Corys.

Reg and Iris? Mitch and Iris? Dennis and Vicky?

Jamie/Nicole/MJ was waiting to happen as he had past involvements with both. Nicole was way more likely to have a shady past than MJ.

A resurgent Matthews family with Liz/Russ/his daughter/maybe Mike Randolph?

So many opportunities....

 

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3 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Of the characters introduced I felt Adam was unnecessary - another Cory nobody had heard of. Same with Cheryl.

Zack should have been involved in a serious romance with Quinn. Instead she was killed off

Reg had the potential to be an ongoing antagonist a la early Victor Newman and Alan Spaulding but was turned into a cardboard villian, dragging Peter along with him.

Mary and Vince should have been the new working class matriach/patriach-maybe Vince gets involved with Maisie along the way,instead of killing her off.

Chad was a plot point.

Jamie was a bad recast and was made a doctor for no reason.

The Vicky and Nicole recasts were crucial and neither actress got much of a chance.

 

Of the departures, I think Zane should have stayed around longer - there was still plenty of story for the newlyweds.

Clarice and Larry were probably played out.

I think Jake/Marley/Cass/Kathleen all chose to leave but Ben McKinnon/Vicky could have filled the gap.

As later writers showed Iris and Dennis were viable and should have come back sooner to strengthen the Corys.

Reg and Iris? Mitch and Iris? Dennis and Vicky?

Jamie/Nicole/MJ was waiting to happen as he had past involvements with both. Nicole was way more likely to have a shady past than MJ.

A resurgent Matthews family with Liz/Russ/his daughter/maybe Mike Randolph?

So many opportunities....

 

I always wonder who was behind all these misfires/missed opportunities. Was it the writers and producers or was it Nbc/P&G?

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6 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

I always wonder who was behind all these misfires/missed opportunities. Was it the writers and producers or was it Nbc/P&G?

 

There were so many missed opportunities on AW:

 

in 1986, Sally and Kevin should have left town with Aunt Liz to visit Alice after finding out that Catlin slept with Brittany and was the father of Brittany's baby.  Sally should have never been killed off.  Sally, a SORASED Kevin, and Alice could have returned with Liz in late 1987.

 

Adam was unnecessary.  Larry should have remained as Bay City's police officer who later could have played off of Ryan Harrison.  If a character had to die in the car crash that killed Sally, Clarice could have been sacrificed, or she could have been a victim of the Sin Stalker.  Making Larry a widower with two children, Cory and Jeanne, had plenty of storyline possibilities.  Larry could have then been paired with MJ.  Cory and Jeanne could have been SORASED, and technically Ada was their step-grandmother.  Two teenagers to deal with could have given Ada plenty to do, especially after Nancy left town in 1987.  A Cory/ Josie/ Matthew triangle would have caused turmoil between Ada and Rachel.

 

Reginald should have been a long term character.  At least the character of Carl Hutchins should have been brought back to see them interact together.

 

Killing Quinn was a mistake and  while she was paired with Zack it was too brief. Thomasina and Carter still had story left . Thomasina was going to med school.   As a med intern, she could have spent too much time at Bay City General, causing Carter to get involved with Zack's sister Julie Ann.

 

Rhonda Lewin and Lauri Landry as Vicky and Nicole were gone before they really got a storyline.  You have to wonder why they even cast them in the first place.

 

i also think that the Peggy Lazarus character that was introduced in late 1986 should have turned out to be Pammy Davis, Rachel's half-sister.   The show went so far as to say that Peggy Lazarus was an assumed name, but they dropped the character in 1987.  This could have brought Gerald Davis back to the show, as well.

Edited by watson71

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