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I am not one to think this recount is going to amount to anything but the final vote counts in all 3 states(Wi, Mi, PA) now have Hillary's deficit below 80,000 votes. PA dropped from a 70k vote lead to 40k

 

And in now,: Lead recount lawyer in Wisconsin indicates that  19 counties in Wisconsin are refusing to give the recount team access to ballots. I may not believe anything fishy happened in Michigan or Pennsylvania, but Wisconsin - with Scott Walker - I have zero doubt that something happened there.

 

 

By the way the democrats need fresh blood and that doesn't mean Sanders and Warren, and I like what I have read about Jamie Raskin.  Thought this was interesting.

 

https://newrepublic.com/article/139092/jamie-raskin-fierce-funny-message-dispirited-democrats

Edited by JaneAusten

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59 minutes ago, JaneAusten said:

By the way the democrats need fresh blood and that doesn't mean Sanders and Warren, and I like what I have read about Jamie Raskin.  Thought this was interesting.

 

https://newrepublic.com/article/139092/jamie-raskin-fierce-funny-message-dispirited-democrats

 

 I consider Warren to be fresh blood. This is only her first term and she's done a good job energizing the left wing of the party. As for Bernie, he's not a Democrat so he doesn't count.

 

I think the Dems have a deeper bench than most give us credit for: Booker, Gillibrand, Ellison, Duckworth, Tim Ryan, etc... plus the newly elected Harris, Hassan etc... Personally I think that the real challenge is to get back to the 50 state strategy and focus more on local governments and statehouses. Those are the pipelines where we can develop new talent. (See: Wendy Davis (TX), Allison Lundergan-Grimes (KY))

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30 minutes ago, marceline said:

 

 I consider Warren to be fresh blood. This is only her first term and she's done a good job energizing the left wing of the party. As for Bernie, he's not a Democrat so he doesn't count.

 

I think the Dems have a deeper bench than most give us credit for: Booker, Gillibrand, Ellison, Duckworth, Tim Ryan, etc... plus the newly elected Harris, Hassan etc... Personally I think that the real challenge is to get back to the 50 state strategy and focus more on local governments and statehouses. Those are the pipelines where we can develop new talent. (See: Wendy Davis (TX), Allison Lundergan-Grimes (KY))

I don't mean to sound dismissive of Warren but she is 67 years old. And I am a big Duckworth and Wendy Davis fan. I don't disagree with you and I actually don't question the re-election of Pelosi as minority leader at this point, but I do think young fresh blood is needed. We got spoiled with Obama IMO. And I am totally on board with the 50 state strategy but I admit to not being certain about Ellison. He's got a great track record but I am not sure he has the inspirational aspect that that role might need at this point. Maybe I am underestimating him - I hope I am.

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1 minute ago, JaneAusten said:

I don't mean to sound dismissive of Warren but she is 67 years old. 

 

I didn't claim she was young, just fresh. Regardless of her age she's brought something vital to the party and she appeals to young voters. She could easily become the successor to Ted Kennedy.

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If there are two phrases I never want to hear again they are "America first" and "Make America great again". This speech in Cincinnati is freaking me out. It's so nationalist in tone.

2 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Welp.

That assumes those votes would have gone to Clinton and I think that's a pretty big assumption.

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They thought there was no difference between HRC and Trump? Hopefully those folks won't be screaming about their anxiety over their healthcare because I won't want to hear it.

 

Black women didn't idealize any of the candidates but we clearly saw and knew there was a difference between Trump and Hillary. How entitled must one be to not recognize a difference??

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^ I agree, but there sure seemed to be people who hated them both. I think there were both Republicans and Democrats who cast protest votes. There were quite a few Republicans out there saying they wouldn't vote for Trump, but couldn't cast a vote for HRC.  We don't know how many people from either side cast a protest vote.

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53 minutes ago, Juliajms said:

If there are two phrases I never want to hear again they are "America first" and "Make America great again". This speech in Cincinnati is freaking me out. It's so nationalist in tone.

That assumes those votes would have gone to Clinton and I think that's a pretty big assumption.

 

I think Stein's voters were more likely to go to Clinton than Trump because of the climate change issue. But if Stein had dropped out, I wonder how many of her supporters would have turned to the other third party candidate. I don't know how her and Johnson's beliefs align tbh. 

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^ Do we even know that her voters voted on that issue? Just because it was her issue doesn't mean that's what was motivating people. Anyone really serious about climate change would have voted for Clinton, imo. Otherwise, why risk that an actual climate change denier (who thinks it's a hoax by China no less) will be elected? I just don't believe that very many people at all voted 3rd party except for people casting a protest vote. It was obvious neither of them could win. For all we know the 3rd party voters would have just stayed home instead of voting for either of the main candidates.

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It's hard to say how Stein voters would have voted with the absence of Stein in the race, but there is a chance that some of them would have voted for Clinton even if they had issues with her, just to stop Trump. Anyway, all that is moot since the damage is done.

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29 minutes ago, Juliajms said:

^ Do we even know that her voters voted on that issue? Just because it was her issue doesn't mean that's what was motivating people. Anyone really serious about climate change would have voted for Clinton, imo. Otherwise, why risk that an actual climate change denier (who thinks it's a hoax by China no less) will be elected? I just don't believe that very many people at all voted 3rd party except for people casting a protest vote. It was obvious neither of them could win. For all we know the 3rd party voters would have just stayed home instead of voting for either of the main candidates.

 

That's a good point. A colleague of mine who supported Bernie, voted Stein, saying Trump and Clinton were both terrible candidates.

 

Another, who also supported Bernie, told me over the summer she may have to vote for Trump because she just doesn't like Hillary. I encouraged her to research and look at the issues.

 

These colleagues are both in their younger 20s for what it's worth. The second one would later say she didn't like Trump, but she and I never discussed who she voted for. 

 

Back to third party candidates... If people truly believed in what Stein or Johnson stood for, then, sure, vote for them. I don't agree with voting for 3rd party candidates because they are not going to win, and to me, it's throwing your vote away. But at the same time, it's hard for me to tell someone to not vote their conscience. 

 

But to just vote for them because they're not Clinton or Trump or to vote for them because your guy, Bernie, lost? That's throwing your vote away in protest. Like voting for Harambe.

 

I know Bernie Bros weren't the only ones who voted third party, but I just don't know how you vote for someone that guarantees everything you supposedly care about won't get implemented. 

 

 

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