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59 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The problem with going after Trump is it doesn't matter what you say or what you do - his supporters don't care, and the media will just go "both sides both sides."

 

If that's the case, then what do you think the Democrats should do, going into the 2020 election?  Like you said, we can't go after his record, because his supporters don't care.  But, we can't exactly ignore him either.  So, what should we do?  Because, even though I believe Trump will get re-elected, that doesn't mean I think the Democrats should just roll up their tents now and forget about next November.

Edited by Khan

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9 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

If that's the case, then what do you think the Democrats should do, going into the 2020 election?  Like you said, we can't go after his record, because his supporters don't care.  But, we can't exactly ignore him either.  So, what should we do?  Because, even though I believe Trump will get re-elected, that doesn't mean I think the Democrats should just roll up their tents now and forget next November.

 

I think they should try to cobble together a solid, coherent message on health care and the economy, find as many charismatic surrogates as they can (ideally, members of Congress or local elected officials or state legislators or council members, not Tom Hanks or Barbra Streisand), don't take states for granted the way they did in 2016, and fight like they will have to grind out a win, instead of the "this state is in our reach" fool's gold of so many years (not that this only applies to Democrats, as Karl Rove thought W would win California in 2000). 

 

I'm not saying ignore Trump - when he attacks, answer, and of course his failings will be at the heart of a Democratic campaign - but don't make him the focus, the way he was in 2016. Don't run a lot of generic "Trump bad" ads, or ads with Soccer Mom Susan looking into the camera from her highback chair as she tells us how concerned she is. Don't talk about how other countries feel, because many voters just don't want to hear it. I would say talk more about the courts, but sadly, a lot of voters outside of the right don't seem to care, so what can you do? Still, I'd like to see somebody try to make this an issue, especially since RBG has been to the hospital this year more times than I can even remember anymore.

 

Don't make social media too key a part of your campaign. Use it for its benefits in organizing but never assume social media speaks for anyone in the real world. Don't twist yourself into knots because outspoken attention-seekers on Twitter need to know every last detail or they will try to drown you in lazy memes. 

 

Don't try to pander too hard on social issues, leading you to say unintelligible garble (which has ended up happening repeatedly with trans issues in the primary already).

 

Don't focus so exclusively on Putin and Russia, because this attack or concern has reached everyone it's going to reach.

 

And, nothing against them, because I voted for people like John Kerry and I still wish he'd been elected, but please stop trotting out the same old people to say the same old things.

Edited by DRW50

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1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

 

Clinton was probably aware that women are held to much higher standards than their male counterparts.  Much of the electorate will applaud a man who is vocal and can trade insults but when a woman does it, she is seen as arrogant and deserving of being put in her place.

Had Hillary went into a full-throated verbal assault on Trump, I just don't believe it would've went over well.  I don't have that much faith in the American public to give a woman the same space as a man in many aspects in life, including presidential politics.

It's not so much of a verbal assault she should have done, but more so a better job of defining him in basic standards. He defined himself as being for the regular person so much to the point that there are people who believe he came from nothing and worked his way up into being wealthy. Trump defined himself and that is part of why he won. So many races are decided on how a candidate is defined.

 

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

 

I think the main mistake Hillary made was in taking for granted she would have more support because of how awful Trump was. People heard all about how terrible Trump was for a year or more, in ads from her, super PACs from the Democrats and from Republicans during the primaries, etc. Ultimately enough of them still went with Trump because they became numb to the attacks and because they decided it was still worth the risk to have a loudmouth and a piece of trash they could say at least was out there in the open and wouldn't be more of the same. 

 

Unfortunately, unless the economy crashes between now and November, I think a lot of them may make the same mistake again.

Having expectations of people not voting for Trump because of his terrible behavior was definitely something that the campaign relied on to much. The difference in 2020 will be that Trump has an actual political record to scrutinize and he can't run as outsider. Plus, a lot of people are more alert about the election than in 2016. There are new states in play that weren't in play last time and those states are more educated.

Edited by ReddFoxx

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36 minutes ago, ReddFoxx said:

Having expectations of people not voting for Trump because of his terrible behavior was definitely something that the campaign relied on to much. The difference in 2020 will be that Trump has an actual political record to scrutinize and he can't run as outsider. Plus, a lot of people are more alert about the election than in 2016. There are new states in play that weren't in play last time and those states are more educated.

 

I hope so. I'm so wary of people now, on all sides. I see so many people on the left frothing with rage about Biden, Buttigieg, and increasingly, Warren, and some are already saying they will vote for Trump over one or all of them or stay home. I just feel like there's so much inability to focus while the right, even with the conflicts seeping in in recent years, is better at focusing when it counts. I'm hoping whoever gets the nomination can scrape together a coalition to beat Trump. 

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No one should be surprised by something like this, and in Mississippi, it's pretty much par for the course.

 

 

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12 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I would say talk more about the courts, but sadly, a lot of voters outside of the right don't seem to care, so what can you do? Still, I'd like to see somebody try to make this an issue, especially since RBG has been to the hospital this year more times than I can even remember anymore.

 

I'd say in the past 3 years, Dems have paid more attention to the courts and can see rights slowly slipping away or being in grave danger (Roe v. Wade; LGBTQ, etc.) . With that, I wouldn't mind an ad that subtly suggests RBG may not make it another 5 years, juxtaposed with beer-loving Brett Kavanaugh breaking down under interrogation while a level-headed Christine Blasey Ford speaks the truth (not her truth; the truth).  Remind Dems what's at stake in all levels of government. 

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6 minutes ago, Gray Bunny said:

 

I'd say in the past 3 years, Dems have paid more attention to the courts and can see rights slowly slipping away or being in grave danger (Roe v. Wade; LGBTQ, etc.) . With that, I wouldn't mind an ad that subtly suggests RBG may not make it another 5 years, juxtaposed with beer-loving Brett Kavanaugh breaking down under interrogation while a level-headed Christine Blasey Ford speaks the truth (not her truth; the truth).  Remind Dems what's at stake in all levels of government. 

This is the scariest of all.  Ruth should have retired under Obama, now she's going to die and they'll get another Supreme Court Justice and it should not be allowed.  The Republicans griped for a solid year practically that Obama should not be given another SC nomination/placement, and now this goon will get 3 or 4.   And it still chaps my *ss when Kavanaugh was up - his Orange-ness said he had never seen a more qualified person.  Interesting, considering you didn't put him up when you had the chance before.  You already nominated someone else who was confirmed, remember?  Such a mess. 

Edited by Fevuh

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More of the Nikki Haley pandering tour. Please share this with people the next time the media gushes over their darling Nikki and tells us that she is one of the saviors of the GOP.

 

 

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9 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

No one should be surprised by something like this, and in Mississippi, it's pretty much par for the course.

 

 

This is going to be a new trick in a lot of places. Republicans floated the idea of overturning the Kentucky gubernatorial results, but backed off when it was clear Mitch McConnell would not get on board. With this particular case in Mississippi the racial factor is clearly at play since Republicans are always accusing black people of committing voter fraud.

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Every time I convince myself to get on board with Biden I read nonsense like this. When is he going to acknowledge the GOP is an existential threat and they need to be obliterated at the polls.

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nidhiprakash/joe-biden-hunter-biden-questions?bftwnews&utm_term=4ldqpgc#4ldqpgc

 

"

"It’s not like there’s going to be some great epiphany and people are going to wake up and go, 'Oh my god, I'm now a Democrat.' And if you hear people on the rope line saying, ‘I'm a Republican,’ I say, ‘Stay a Republican.’ Vote for me but stay a Republican, because we need a Republican Party."

He later added that he's concerned about what would happen if the Republican Party were totally "clobbered."

"I'm really worried that no party should have too much power," he said. "You need a countervailing force."

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After all of these hearings, what's everyone's bet as far as a percent that The Orange will be impeached?  I give it 25%, and 0% that he's removed from office.  

 

It's all so depressing.  

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On 12/6/2019 at 9:39 PM, ReddFoxx said:

With this particular case in Mississippi the racial factor is clearly at play since Republicans are always accusing black people of committing voter fraud.

It just keeps happening.  Only in a free country like ours do we have a party trying to keep people from voting.  And it continues to happen every election.  Dangling chads taught us nothing and one party benefits from that garbage every time.  I'll never forget the night of the dangling chad...and they never played it again and I've never seen it again but I'll never forget the Dubya looking right into the camera and saying the Jeb told him that he knew he would win FL.  

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2 hours ago, Fevuh said:

After all of these hearings, what's everyone's bet as far as a percent that The Orange will be impeached?  I give it 25%, and 0% that he's removed from office.  

 

It's all so depressing.  

 

I figure he'll be impeached by the House and acquitted by the Senate. I've never for one second thought he would ever be removed.

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He was never going to be removed. But being impeached at all is killing him inside - he's gone on and on both in the past pre-2016 and recently about how only losers get impeached, how it's a stain that never goes away. He is allegedly obsessed with the investigation and enraged privately. And it's bad for him politically. We may not be able to remove him, but we can keep hurting him.

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