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I don't. I would've waited until the Ukraine caper came up, but now IMO it was necessary, both morally and most of all to ignite the base. The point now is to keep it going and bleed him through to Election Day - preferably all the way through. It's not about the vote (which should be prolonged through to 11/20), which will almost certainly fail. It's about the country and about firing up the public.

 

 

 

Edited by Vee

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9 minutes ago, Vee said:

I don't. I would've waited until the Ukraine caper came up, but now IMO it was necessary, both morally and most of all to ignite the base. The point now is to keep it going and bleed him through to Election Day - preferably all the way through. It's not about the vote (which should be prolonged through to 11/20), which will almost certainly fail. It's about the country and about firing up the public.

 

Morally I agree with the decision. Strategically, I think it's going to cost them a lot of the seats they won in 2018. But whatever choice they made was going to have consequences, so we'll just see what happens and expect the worst.

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No, we won't, you will, because that's what you always do. ;)  But I love you anyway.

 

Strategically, IMO it's the right thing to do for the base, and there will never be a better time or a better crime. YMMV.

 

 

Edited by Vee

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You know what?  I have to take back what I've said before.  As I see it now, the House has no choice BUT to pursue impeachment charges against Trump.  We've let too much slide already.  If we do the same with the Ukrainian mess, then we can officially throw the Constitution in the garbage can (where it probably belongs anyway).

 

Part of me believes this is merely a tactic on their part to force Trump to comply with the investigation(s).  Of course, THAT would imply they still operate under the assumption that he is a man who will give in when cornered.  Maybe he will, and maybe he won't, but how terrifying is it that, when it comes to Trump, we just don't know how he'll respond?

 

Moreover, I can't help but wonder if this is, in some way, a reaction to what has happened in the UK, with their Supreme Court ruling that Boris Johnson was being purposely deceitful when he prorogued Parliament in order to protect his "Deal or No Deal" Brexit agenda.  I mean, it's terrible optics for this country that the UK can do to THEIR leader, with no qualms, what we can't seem to do to ours.

 

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

Strategically, I think it's going to cost them a lot of the seats they won in 2018. 

 

Let's be honest: if the Democrats lose a lot of seats they picked up in the last election, it won't be because they failed to impeach the president.  It'll be because of the far left and how they have fostered divisiveness among the entire Democratic Party.

 

I think most Democratic voters are intelligent enough to know that we face, at best, an uphill battle in impeaching Trump.  We KNOW that ANY articles of impeachment are going to die the minute they hit the Senate floor.  If anything, it COULD be what we need to mobilize the base into retaking the Senate.  Because -- and this is just my opinion -- if and when we DO retake it, then, and only then, can we talk seriously about matters like impeaching B**** K********.

 

16 minutes ago, Vee said:

 

 

 

So, he DID back down, then?  Of course, we know by now that his SAYING there was no collusion doesn't mean there actually wasn't.  Ergo, I'mma wait to see whether he actually releases the transcripts; what, if anything, those transcripts reveal (that is, if we are allowed to see them at all); and what the Dems will have to say about them once they've had the chance to review them.

Edited by Khan

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He's hoping to hold off the impeachment inquiry with the transcript. For some wavering Dems that may be their chance at an off-ramp. I don't think it'll work, though.

 

Meanwhile:

 

 

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"Whistleblower"?  Could we find a better moniker for the whistleblower than "Whistleblower"?  "Deep Throat" is taken, of course, so what about..."Dark Horse"?  #shrugs

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Once impeachment starts we're pretty much in the general election. It's Trump vs. Biden now. 

 

I've seen some suggestions that they could impeach in the House and never send the case to the Senate. They would essentially spend the next few months detailing all his crimes then just let it sit there. Bottom line is I trust Pelosi and Schiff and Cummings. These aren't stupid people. Also, I think the op-ed by the seven freshman Dems with military and/or intelligence backgrounds showed how this issue is going to be framed in the swing states.

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I'd still vastly prefer Warren (and I think she's getting close). I think Joe means well, but I just don't think it's a good idea at all at this point. Could he win? Yes, but I don't need the base being torn in half again over him.

 

And yes, I think that's exactly what'll happen - impeach and let it simmer.

 

 

 

Edited by Vee

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23 minutes ago, Vee said:

I'd still vastly prefer Warren (and I think she's getting close). I think Joe means well, but I just don't think it's a good idea at all at this point. Could he win? Yes, but I don't need the base being torn in half again over him.

 

I'm of the mindset that the party being torn in half is inevitable. Black voters in the South will pick our nominee the way they have in every election since 1992. No matter how much progressives hate to hear it it, the Dem base is way more centrist and pragmatic than they want to believe.

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47 minutes ago, marceline said:

Once impeachment starts we're pretty much in the general election. It's Trump vs. Biden now. 

 

Poor Mayor Pete, lol.

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