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Well, I just hope this gets her the boost in book sales that she clearly wanted.

 

Meanwhile, I don't have an article to link to (maybe someone else does?), but apparently, even Biden's staff are freaking out about his performance at the debates.

Edited by Khan

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4 hours ago, Khan said:

Well, I just hope this gets her the boost in book sales that she clearly wanted.

 

Meanwhile, I don't have an article to link to (maybe someone else does?), but apparently, even Biden's staff are freaking out about his performance at the debates.

 

Yeah, I saw that leak about Joe Biden.  Also, certain members of the press mentioned that all of the other candidates stayed after the debate to answer questions from various media/press but Joe left rather quickly, saying that he was tired.

 

One woman on Twitter stated that her Aunties were excited about Harris and would rather vote for her but don't trust that white people will vote for her and so, think Biden is the safe choice.  I think that's very sad.  It's also what many black people were saying about Obama early in the primaries.  I remember watching The View (yes,  I used to watch that show) and Sheri Shephard said she was voting for Hillary Clinton in the primary, because she felt she knew Hillary better since Hillary had been the Senator from New York, but more importantly, she doubted Obama could win in a general election.  She wasn't alone.  That time reminded me of this situation with Harris and Biden. 

After the first round, it just seems clear that Harris, Warren and Castro delivered the strongest debate performances.  It's a shame that they are still being judged as somehow being less than electable than the guys who clearly had lesser presentations by criteria that is loopier than Williamson's debate answers.

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8 hours ago, Khan said:

I'm just sitting here, laughing at the thought of a potential president having a past as an owner of a metaphysical bookstore.  It's like the ladies of "Designing Women" finding out that whoever ran Psychic World Bookstore was running for office.  (Oh, Julia Sugarbaker would be livid at the thought of having to vote for someone like that, lol.)

It's like that show was almost prophetic in a way, because Julia did once call Donald Trump on the phone and gave him a piece of her mind. Then there was how Julia ran for office against a right-wing extremist.

 

8 hours ago, Chris B said:

Kamala Harris absolutely smashed this debate. I felt like night one Castro FINALLY broke out after being ignored by the press for so long and Warren was good. Even tonight Mayor Pete did better than I expected and I felt like Sanders and Gillibrand (despite her constant interruptions) were good, but Sen. Harris was far and away the leader on stage. Every time she has a town hall, hearing or opportunity to speak to the public she delivers. The thoughts of her against Trump in a debate are just insane. He wouldn't be able to handle her.

 

I also was shocked by her comments towards Biden, but I loved them. He is truly a mediocre candidate who did a poor job (as he always does in debates) and she needed to break out strong to have a chance. Had she done everything the same EXCEPT addressing Biden, all the press would've been about how she did a wonderful job and will make a great VP for Biden. She is NOT running to be Biden's VP and that's the mold the press keeps putting her in. "Yes he's middle of the road, but Kamala will save the day." No. She's running for president and needs to be treated as such. I think she did a great job of ending those talks and forcing people to consider her as a candidate.

She is definitely a force to be reckoned with and is one of the people if not the main person that Trump is concerned about running against. Someone so corrupt isn't going to do well in debates against a prosecutor who is used to cutting down absurd arguments.

 

One of the stations in Los Angeles had a panel of undecided voters watch the debate and their opinion was that Biden came off as overconfident, too comfortable and like he had already won the nomination.

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47 minutes ago, ReddFoxx said:

She is definitely a force to be reckoned with and is one of the people if not the main person that Trump is concerned about running against. Someone so corrupt isn't going to do well in debates against a prosecutor who is used to cutting down absurd arguments.

 

One of the stations in Los Angeles had a panel of undecided voters watch the debate and their opinion was that Biden came off as overconfident, too comfortable and like he had already won the nomination.

 

It's evident in the way that Eric Trump has already retweeted (before deleting) troll army tweets that are trying to spread birther-ist conspiracy takes about Harris.  

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10 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

One woman on Twitter stated that her Aunties were excited about Harris and would rather vote for her but don't trust that white people will vote for her and so, think Biden is the safe choice.  I think that's very sad.  It's also what many black people were saying about Obama early in the primaries.  I remember watching The View (yes,  I used to watch that show) and Sheri Shephard said she was voting for Hillary Clinton in the primary, because she felt she knew Hillary better since Hillary had been the Senator from New York, but more importantly, she doubted Obama could win in a general election.  She wasn't alone.  That time reminded me of this situation with Harris and Biden. 

After the first round, it just seems clear that Harris, Warren and Castro delivered the strongest debate performances.  It's a shame that they are still being judged as somehow being less than electable than the guys who clearly had lesser presentations by criteria that is loopier than Williamson's debate answers.

 

Word.  But, OTOH, I can't blame us for being gun shy (for lack of a better word).  Trump is in the WH, because America couldn't handle a Black man being their president for eight years.  Plain and simple.  And the GOP is stooping to new, all-time lows to keep us out of positions of power for generations to come.  That's plain and simple as well.  Pitting another POC against Trump could result in another, far greater b(l)acklash from white America that just might close the lid on the United States' coffin but good.  (Seriously, there are people right now in this country who are happy to let the republic burn than let another POC or woman become president). So, if we have to get behind another straight, old, white guy in order to stem some of that tide and restore some civility to American democracy -- well, that's what we'll have to do.

 

You know, it's easy to laugh at someone like Marianne "I WILL MEET YOU ON THE FIELD WITH LOVE!" Williamson.  But remember: we laughed at Donald Trump, too, once upon a time.  Now look where we are. ;)

Edited by Khan

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5 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

Word.  But, OTOH, I can't blame us for being gun shy (for lack of a better word).  Trump is in the WH, because America couldn't handle a Black man being their president for eight years.  Plain and simple.  And the GOP is stooping to new, all-time lows to keep us out of positions of power for generations to come.  That's plain and simple as well.  Pitting another POC against Trump could result in another, far greater b(l)acklash from white America that just might close the lid on the United States' coffin but good.  (Seriously, there are people right now in this country who are happy to let the republic burn than let another POC or woman become president). So, if we have to get behind another straight, old, white guy in order to stem some of that tide and restore some civility to American democracy -- well, that's what we'll have to do.

 

You think a race between Biden and Trump will be civil?  I think you'll be in for a surprise on that one.  Also, comparing Biden's debate performances from 2008 and last night, it's clear that Trump will be salivating over the chance to debate Biden. 

 

I'll vote for whomever is the presumptive nominee but I think that on the civility issue, that genie has already left the bottle.

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I think Biden's age was a small factor last night but IMO the biggest issue was he didn't prepare. He IMO is doing the same thing people accused Hillary of doing, running a general election campaign and taking the primary for granted.(although Hillary was never unprepared) I hope he learned his lesson. I do believe he'll actually be prepared next time around. And he handled Palin well in the 2008 debate and partially salvaged the 2012 debates after Obama's disastrous 1st performance against Romney and cleaned Paul Ryan's clock, so he can debate.hb

 

The message to me is that people like Harris, Warren, Buttigieg, heck even Michael Bennett who got some hits in on Biden aren't there for cabinet positions or to be VP.

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11 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

I'd say Warren and Harris have a decent chance of upsetting the apple cart. Castro probably has a decent shot at VP. 

 

Agreed. My No. 1 choice is Kamala, 2nd is Warren. 

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I keep seeing people talk about how much they want to see X person debate Trump. It's not going to matter. Trump is senile and stupid. Anybody who debates him will "win" but it won't matter. Hillary shredded him during the debates and it didn't matter.

 

The same for people saying that Kamala took Biden apart last night. It won't matter. Biden's support isn't "technical" it's emotional. It's about a traumatized electorate desperate for sanity and stability. Not a single person running seems to grasp that other than Biden. Everybody else is promising big changes which only reads as upheaval. Biden's messaging is clumsy right now but he's slowly zeroing in on the thing I think people want to hear. If he finally hits the point of "I'm here to end this chaos," he will be untouchable. IMO, all these people trying to knock Biden out of the top spot are failing because they are misreading the electorate. Going after Biden on busing means nothing to me and I'm someone who was actually bused as a child. 

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3 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

@Vee, I thought you'd appreciate this one.

 

You're goddamn right!

 

I don't disagree with any of the above re: what people are desperate for. I just don't believe the only place that can be found is Biden. I think Biden is a good man but is leading largely on voter familiarity with him and association with a (superficially) saner time.

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3 minutes ago, Vee said:

 

You're goddamn right!

 

I don't disagree with any of the above re: what people are desperate for. I just don't believe the only place that can be found is Biden. I think Biden is a good man but is leading largely on voter familiarity with him and association with a (superficially) saner time.

 

I think it could be found with others but no one is running on it. No one is talking about how exhausting this all is.  Granted there's a thousand people running but I haven't felt a real connection with any of them. A moment here or there but no one seems to get it for me.

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That's why I don't mainline all this right now. I checked in on the debates but I don't have time to exhaust myself with too much of this until the field clears.

 

I like Harris and Warren (who I think has made a tremendous improvement of late in terms of her campaign and electable chances) a lot. I'd prefer them. I have no problem pulling a lever for Joe if I have to. I have never seen him and will never see him as an evil or unfit man. I just think there is a way to marry the message you speak of (which certainly exists) to what a lot of people are hungry for - not just in terms of deranged unicorn dreams, which is certainly a problem, but in terms of taking bolder steps to change the trajectory and framing, not just triaging the same problems over and over.

 

We've reached a point in our culture and in our global affairs, as well as on dire issues like climate, etc. where we're going to have go for the throat, and power, that doesn't come naturally to some of the party anymore. It's that important and necessary, and it absolutely comes naturally to this GOP. We have to work on pushing the party out of the defensive crouch some of it's been in frankly since the end of the Fairness Doctrine - the same crouch that dominates the thinking of, say, the New York Times (albeit to a much more extreme, right-sympathetic slant there). Sometimes those measures start as small as, say, not taking Chuck Todd's bullshít framing at a demand. But I just know that even I - who was raised with a woman who worked on the Hill most of her life and made it very clear to me how important it is to do the long, slow work - am reaching the end of my patience with not even enforcing subpoenas while kids are starving or dying in those cages. I understand the principle of the slow knife. But there has to be a knife. And in the meantime, too many of those kids aren't getting any less orphaned, any less hungry or any less dead.

Edited by Vee

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2 hours ago, Vee said:

We've reached a point in our culture and in our global affairs, as well as on dire issues like climate, etc. where we're going to have go for the throat, and power, that doesn't come naturally to some of the party anymore. It's that important and necessary, and it absolutely comes naturally to this GOP. We have to work on pushing the party out of the defensive crouch some of it's been in frankly since the end of the Fairness Doctrine - the same crouch that dominates the thinking of, say, the New York Times (albeit to a much more extreme, right-sympathetic slant there). Sometimes those measures start as small as, say, not taking Chuck Todd's bullshít framing at a demand. But I just know that even I - who was raised with a woman who worked on the Hill most of her life and made it very clear to me how important it is to do the long, slow work - am reaching the end of my patience with not even enforcing subpoenas while kids are starving or dying in those cages. I understand the principle of the slow knife. But there has to be a knife. And in the meantime, too many of those kids aren't getting any less orphaned, any less hungry or any less dead.

 

I think that there are two big reasons for why everything is near a boiling point for the left - one is that liberals are still torn between holding out for their beliefs and making sacrifices for what they see as the greater good (as shown in the border bill yesterday), and that liberals are still shut out of any real power, even with the House, and will be for at least another year and a half. I think some people expected differently once we won the House. Others didn't expect differently, and it just reinforces why they hate the Democratic Party, see them as corporate sellouts, and are either going for Bernie, or just not voting at all.

 

You can feel the frustration and the desperation in some recent stunts, like having various politicians climb a ladder and go gawk at children in detention centers to show the cameras just how Seriously and Importantly they are taking the issue. It's so ghoulish, so ghastly - like something from one of those '60s dystopian satires. I struggle to be a part of a party that is involved in such sick theatrics. Yet that's where the Democratic Party now is, because they are boxed out of many other options.

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