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2 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

I think a lot of people on the left have never liked him (even less than they liked Obama) but put up with him. Their patience has run out. 

 

There's also a never-ending posturing and superiority dance that makes up so much of social media. I'm never sure how much it translates to real life, but it makes online political reading a slog, if one even bothers. You often hear people say things like they hate all white people or they hate all men or they hate all straight people or all straight people should die, and on and on. They get lots of pats on the back from their circle jerk and ignore the rest. 

 

Many of the people who focus the most on anti-white screeds are white people who are desperate to be liked. And I have a feeling most of them won't be voting either. 

The social media aspect is important. I was at an event some months back Jason Kander spoke at and as he had been traveling a lot, he was asked about places he traveled to, particularly those that tend to swing towards the right. One woman in particular pointed to social media and he stopped her and told her most of the world does not live on social media. Social media is filled with political extremists from across the board but it's not a true reflection of the concerns of everyday people.

 

Bidens issues by the way did not start with social media and the hyper sensitivity of the left. He has had issues for years. He has never won a primary solo for a reason. And for me I will forever remember and associate him with Anita Hill.  Does it mean I would not vote for him as the democrat? No but he certainly is not anywhere near the top of my list.

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1 minute ago, JaneAusten said:

 Bidens issues by the way did not start with social media and the hyper sensitivity of the left. He has had issues for years. He has never won a primary solo for a reason. And for me I will forever remember and associate him with Anita Hill.  Does it mean I would not vote for him as the democrat? No but he certainly is not anywhere near the top of my list.

 

Yes, that's why I said the left has not liked him for a long time. The Anita Hill issue is always going to be a nonstarter. 

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1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

 

Yes, that's why I said the left has not liked him for a long time. The Anita Hill issue is always going to be a nonstarter. 

Sorry I was not disputing that if it came across that way.

 

There is a lot of baggage pre Obama. Obama did  help rehabilitate Biden's image, but I hope people don't think it's just the extreme left that has issues with Biden. He lost primaries, Bill Clinton won them with his own set of baggage, and I don't think ideologically they were that far apart at the time.

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5 minutes ago, JaneAusten said:

Sorry I was not disputing that if it came across that way.

 

There is a lot of baggage pre Obama. Obama did  help rehabilitate Biden's image, but I hope people don't think it's just the extreme left that has issues with Biden. He lost primaries, Bill Clinton won them with his own set of baggage, and I don't think ideologically they were that far apart at the time.

 

Biden has been seen as damaged goods since the plagiarism scandals of 1987 or 1988. 

 

I really wish he would just take on an elder statesman role. I feel like he has big regrets because he might have won in 2016. I think he probably had a better chance than Hillary, it's just that no one understood the type of candidate she'd be running against - a Jeb or a Marco would have beaten him, which I don't think Trump would have as Biden could hit back hard and fast on Trump's level the way Hillary couldn't. 

 

The primary stuff has already been so nasty that I think whoever gets the nomination will be loathed by many in the base. Add in meddling from foreign actors (which apparently is still very influential as they seem to have helped start the Covington stuff last week) and a media that hates Democrats and loves Trump and the GOP, and I'd say anyone who thinks 2020 is going to be anything but a dead heat is in for a rude awakening.

 

That is if we even have elections in 2020. The way things have been going lately I have my doubts. 

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35 minutes ago, JaneAusten said:

Sorry I was not disputing that if it came across that way.

 

There is a lot of baggage pre Obama. Obama did  help rehabilitate Biden's image, but I hope people don't think it's just the extreme left that has issues with Biden. He lost primaries, Bill Clinton won them with his own set of baggage, and I don't think ideologically they were that far apart at the time.

 

Yeah, just to be clear I know Biden has issues. He's tried to run before and failed and as already said his role in the Thomas-Hill hearings makes him a nonstarter. I'm just startled by the baldfaced hostility. Biden is one of the few politicians I can think of who has learned from many of his past mistakes and tried to improve. He's a lifetime member of the NAACP and he's IMO a really good advocate in the battle against domestic violence and sexual assault (which doesn't excuse his tendency towards handsiness with women.) It's just that so many are acting like Biden is the enemy when he's just an imperfect ally.

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7 minutes ago, marceline said:

 

Yeah, just to be clear I know Biden has issues. He's tried to run before and failed and as already said his role in the Thomas-Hill hearings makes him a nonstarter. I'm just startled by the baldfaced hostility. Biden is one of the few politicians I can think of who has learned from many of his past mistakes and tried to improve. He's a lifetime member of the NAACP and he's IMO a really good advocate in the battle against domestic violence and sexual assault (which doesn't excuse his tendency towards handsiness with women.) It's just that so many are acting like Biden is the enemy when he's just an imperfect ally.

 

It's just stunting and posturing from people who don't actually care about anything but their own image (and follower count). I hope whoever gets the nomination does their best to ignore or bypass most social media focus because it is just toxic. 

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I like Joe a lot and always have. I think he's done a lot for this country. I also think he has a lot of sins in his past which are magnified in today's climate, and not all of them are overblown. I do think most of the venom towards him is performative, OTT and not representative of the larger electorate.

 

I think it's a mistake for Joe to run. The time has passed and he will be exposing himself, his record and his future legacy in dangerous ways. I do think he absolutely should be out there campaigning vigorously for someone else.

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Apologies if one of us (or me!) already posted the original WP story.

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That article defeats its own point. It goes into long detail about how many Democrats are caving, yet claims Kushner is wrong to think they're caving.

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29 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

That article defeats its own point. It goes into long detail about how many Democrats are caving, yet claims Kushner is wrong to think they're caving.

I don't know what Jonathon Chait has been doing this days but this is not the first article he's written where I have scratched my head. And I wish I could get one example of when Kuschner was right. Allegedly he helped get the criminal justice reform bill passed but I don't hear any republicans crowing about it. Maybe Jared thinks he earned some goodwill as a result who knows.

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6 minutes ago, JaneAusten said:

I don't know what Jonathon Chait has been doing this days but this is not the first article he's written where I have scratched my head. And I wish I could get one example of when Kuschner was right. Allegedly he helped get the criminal justice reform bill passed but I don't hear any republicans crowing about it. Maybe Jared thinks he earned some goodwill as a result who knows.

 

I know Chait is well-respected. Whether that's deserved, I can't guess these days.

 

I thought the article was confusing, but I'm probably needlessly derailing the original point of posting the piece. Sorry about that. 

 

I have never heard of Kushner being right or effective. I think he just gets some credit for sticking it out this long and because he "should" have been influential or powerful, in the narrative which many in the media created (and I also thought he and Ivanka would have more influence than they really do).

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