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The thing about most of these Trump appointed judges is that he didn't really appoint them. Mitch McConnell and the Federalist Society chose them and while they may be right wing zealots they aren't crackpots like the people Trump personally chooses like Betsy DeVos or Scott Pruitt. Most of these judges aren't going to trash their reputations out of loyalty to Trump because they have none.

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47 minutes ago, Juliajms said:

This is just sad. Hopefully Florida can get it together for 2020.

 

It's not uncommon. There are lots of voter education efforts here in Cook County and even so, people are still confused. 

 

I read a couple of months back that the League of Women Voters who are nonpartisan, were prohibited from conducting voter registration efforts and voter education in Florida by Rick Scott. We all know why

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^ Yes, we do.  I know voter suppression has always been a problem, but seeing it happen live is so enraging.  It's not a party issue to me, even though we all know it's usually rich white Republicans trying to repress the non white vote. 

And this is the most sickening case that I know of in this cycle.  The blatant corruption should not be allowed to stand. I don't know how anyone values democracy can be happy about this.

 

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she gave it one hellava run. now Ga. will get what they deserve (although thousands turned out and voted for the right causes).

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1 hour ago, JaneAusten said:

I read a couple of months back that the League of Women Voters who are nonpartisan, were prohibited from conducting voter registration efforts and voter education in Florida by Rick Scott. We all know why

 

My mom is heavily involved in her local League these days. I wonder if she knows about that.

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The bell tolls for Mother:

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I swear,  it's always the biggest losers who start talking about a "master race". They have nothing else going for them, so they need to believe that.

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8 hours ago, marceline said:

The thing about most of these Trump appointed judges is that he didn't really appoint them. Mitch McConnell and the Federalist Society chose them and while they may be right wing zealots they aren't crackpots like the people Trump personally chooses like Betsy DeVos or Scott Pruitt. Most of these judges aren't going to trash their reputations out of loyalty to Trump because they have none.

I agree with this. I think of these conservative judges as being hard asses whose only loyalty is to the LETTER OF THE LAW. The fact that one of Trump's appointees gave him this slap in the face is delicious. 

23 hours ago, JaneAusten said:

Nope. First he voted for Trump which IMO will make him a democratic non starter. There are too many people in the party, particularly the party base BLACK WOMEN who will never vote for him. Like Bernie, he'll ignore the south and refer to the base as low information voters. And someone who supports coal? No thanks.

 

The country is changing and finally we are seeing the roots of the changes take hold. Focusing on Arizona, Texas, Florida, Georgia, and yes North Carolina which will have new maps with a fair court, is where the focus should be, 

 

That said I don't hate this guy. He stood behind the teacher walkout in WV and was an integral part I understand in getting them a better deal.

 

 

You actually think black women would vote for 4 more years of Trump than him? If that's true then this country deserves 4 more years of Trump. He won't ignore the south... he's FROM the south. Bernie wasn't, and did have that yankee elitist mentality. He will also temper the "socialist agenda" and get us something that we will really be able to get passed. I have a suspicion that many voters who turned out in the midterms will get complacent and sit on their asses, enabling Trump to be re-elected. The biggest obtacle we have with the democrat base is apathy. I've known several who have never voted in their entire lives, the biggest thing on their minds being where their next marijuana cigarette is going to come from. 

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On 11/11/2018 at 4:30 PM, JaneAusten said:

@Max

 

Thanks Max. I appreciate your response

 

First, not one person will argue about the histories of the 2 individuals you mentioned. Byrd denounced his role many years before he died. I guess I am not sure why those histories keep getting dragged out when pointing out racism in the Democratic party. We all know what happened with the Southern Strategy. Lee Atwater confessed his complicity in it in an interview when he was dying and it's influence in the GOP.

 

2008 was a very nasty campaign for the democrats. Actually IMO it was more Bill than Hillary. I won't give them a pass. But as a white person it's not up to me to decide if the Clinton team should be given a pass. For example I still will never vote for Joe Biden for president due to Anita Hill. But lots of people have given him a pass. That's each person's individual decision.

 

As for the GOP, I would like to know what policies they embrace or claim to that you support. My dad was a republican but jumped ship after Reagan(and he wasn't a huge Reagan fan - deficits). If it's about smaller gvmt, that's a lost debate. We've turned a lot of work over to private defense contractors and private prison contractors, both of whom rake us over the coals in terms of costs. Our federally run prisons cost significantly less per prisoner than the private prison contractors, and we now stay engaged militarily, many times serving crimes against humanity such as in Yemen, to keep the Lockheed Martin profits rolling. I'm searching for one area of privatization that has worked. I can't find any.

 

And you talk about these guys supporting standard GOP policies. Max no one voted for Peter Roskam to get rid of the SALT and limit property tax deductions. I can confirm many people in his district including many republicans calling and complaining when this went on. So why didn't he listen? The same happened in New Jersey, NY, California. THey could have all FOUGHT to keep these deductions in place for their voters so why didn't they?  That led me to the point that Paul Ryan is to blame not Trump.

 

As for Medicare for all, the Koch funded study also showed non governmental healthcare would cost even more than the billions cited from the article you referenced over the next 10 years.  Taxes go up? How many employers do you think would be more than willing to put more into the social security tax if it frees them from having to provide healthcare themselves.  It also frees employees who are no longer required to be indebted to an employer due to healthcare. And it also allows us to be equally competitive with international businesses, since most countries provide gvmt healthcare.

 

As for trickle down, this economic failure has been tried many times over the past 100 plus years, and where and when has it succeeded? Kansas cut taxes to bare bones under Brownbeck, road and schools crumbling to the point where the voters finally demanded new legislators who actually increased taxes and overrode Brownbeck's veto.

 

If you want to point to the Clinton's, the economy was booming then partially due to tax increases Bush put in place and the tech boom fueled a good part of that. But as to where we are today, I believe Neoliberalism has led to where we are and where the world is today. It's led to massive wealth inequality across the liberal democratic world and the rise of nationalism is a reaction to this. Add in corruption as what happened in Brazil as well. We are seeing wages increase a tad, but it doesn't account for increased costs in gasoline, healthcare, mortgage rates, etc.. And it has done nothing to improve the wage gap, it's only gotten larger. The Oligarchs want us peasants fighting over scraps so they can continue to rape and pillage our tax dollars for themselves. Their taxcuts go no where except back into their own pockets. The only way taxcuts work is by giving them to the middle class who spends the extra money they have, fueling our consumer driven economy.

 

Sorry for the belated response, as I was unable to have the time to reply until now.

 

I know that the right-wing talking point about Robert Byrd is now a tired old trope, but resonated with me prior to the Trump Era. I certainly believe that dinosaurs like Byrd and Hollings would not be tolerated in today's Democratic Party, and I give the Democrats credit for criticizing several of their old icons after a re-examination of their racist histories. (The most obvious example of this is how Woodrow Wilson is pretty much universally despised by liberals. Not too long ago, his racist views were seldom if ever mentioned, and he was widely admired for his progressive economic programs and foreign policy positions.) As I alluded to earlier, I am bothered by the level of influence that Al Sharpton has in the Democratic Party. But more than anything else, the fact that Hillary seemed to be given a pass for her 2008 statements (which were worse than Bill’s, IMO) convinced me that the Democrats were little better than Republicans on the issue of race (prior to Trump’s rise).

 

Obviously, Trump’s rise opened my eyes to the extent of the GOP’s racism problem. I long knew about the Southern Strategy and Lee Atwater (as you mentioned), but the racist rhetoric Trump employed is far more overt, to the point where no conservative who is intellectually honest with himself can deny that Trump and a sizable portion of his supporters are racists. (I do not believe that all Trump supporters are racist by any stretch of the imagination. Trump is a world-class conman, and he managed to dupe enough people into believing that he would solve their problems.). Also, in spite of their appeals to the white grievance crowd, previous Republican presidents could boast about some accomplishments in the area of race. Richard Nixon, for example, oversaw the successful desegregation of public schools (some 15 years after Brown v. Board of Education) and also pushed for affirmative action programs. Ronald Reagan signed into law the Simpson–Mazzoli Act. And George W. Bush urged all Americans to be tolerant towards Muslims in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. In contrast to all those examples, we now have a presidency in which the white nationalists are in control of the agenda.

 

I know that you asked about the specific items of the pre-Trump GOP agenda with which I agreed, so I’ll tell you. For one thing, I am strongly pro-life, which puts me at odds with the vast majority of Democrats. I also believe that premarital sex and adultery are wrong and need to be strongly discouraged. I saw the GOP as the party that defended traditional moral values, particularly in light of how the Democrats excused Bill Clinton’s moral failings. Obviously, it goes without saying that any politician who aligns himself with Donald Trump forever loses the right to lecture about morality. I feel completely duped by so many “conservatives,” but that doesn’t change the sincerity of my own beliefs.

 

In the 1990s, I feel that GOP mayors such as Rudy Giuliani and Richard Riordan did a tremendous job bringing down crime and changing the fortunes of urban America. Giuliani, in particular, was somebody who I really admired. Not only was he a successful crime fighter, but he cleaned up the filth in Times Square and served as such a tremendous source of strength in the aftermath of 9/11. It is beyond sad to see the person he has become in recent years (I’m honestly not sure if he changed or if he is just now showing his true colors), and I have little doubt that he’ll be best remembered for his erratic behavior as a Trump sycophant as opposed to his accomplishments as mayor.

 

When it comes to foreign policy, there was also a lot that I liked about the GOP. Reagan and Bush 41 had an aggressive anti-communist stance and deserve a lot of the credit for the Soviet Union’s demise. Though the War in Iraq was a horrendous mistake, the surge that occurred in the final two years of Bush 43’s presidency was the right thing to do, and John McCain deserves a lot of credit for advocating for it. Had he won the presidency in 2008, I believe that Iraq would be in much better shape today. I know that Mitt Romney made a lot of cringeworthy comments during the 2012 campaign, but he showed tremendous foresight when he said that Russia was our number one geopolitical foe; at the time, President Obama mocked Romney by saying that “the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back.” Given what happened during the 2012 campaign, I felt that the Democrats were slow to recognize the threat posed by Putin. Of course, the roles of the two parties are now completely reversed, and now you have Trump and his GOP enablers currying favor with Putin. The two parties have also recently reversed themselves on the issue of free trade, which had been another issue that attracted me to the GOP.

 

Finally, on the issue of economics, I’m not a supply-sider by any means. But I do feel that tax cuts are appropriate during times of recession in order to jumpstart the economy; during times of economic prosperity and war, I would favor increasing taxes on the wealthy in order to pay down the deficit. Obviously, this stance puts me at odds with the pre-Trump GOP, but my strong opposition to Bernie Sanders’ tax plan puts me at odds with many in the Democratic base. Regarding the new tax bill (which you alluded to), I would have opposed it on the grounds that (1) it would hurt our deficit and (2) the reduced taxes aren’t needed at this present time because of the good economy. However, I don’t believe that the cap on the SALT deduction was the primary reason why so many GOP Congressman just lost their jobs. Certainly it didn’t help, but there were other factors, such as the fact that so many of these incumbents lost touch with their constituents and didn’t know how to run in a competitive race. But more than anything else, Republicans lost these seats because affluent & highly educated suburban voters (who were once the bread and butter of the GOP coalition) dislike Trump and his white nationalist agenda.

Edited by Max
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25 minutes ago, alphanguy74 said:

I agree with this. I think of these conservative judges as being hard asses whose only loyalty is to the LETTER OF THE LAW. The fact that one of Trump's appointees gave him this slap in the face is delicious. 

You actually think black women would vote for 4 more years of Trump than him? If that's true then this country deserves 4 more years of Trump. He won't ignore the south... he's FROM the south. Bernie wasn't, and did have that yankee elitist mentality. He will also temper the "socialist agenda" and get us something that we will really be able to get passed. I have a suspicion that many voters who turned out in the midterms will get complacent and sit on their asses, enabling Trump to be re-elected. The biggest obtacle we have with the democrat base is apathy. I've known several who have never voted in their entire lives, the biggest thing on their minds being where their next marijuana cigarette is going to come from. 

You missed my point. Bernie lost the democratic primary because he ignored the south and referred to minorities as low information voters. You have to win a primary before you can run in a general election. And you cannot win a primary without the black vote particularly women.  They are the base.

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1 hour ago, JaneAusten said:

You missed my point. Bernie lost the democratic primary because he ignored the south and referred to minorities as low information voters. You have to win a primary before you can run in a general election. And you cannot win a primary without the black vote particularly women.  They are the base.

I don't see how 6% of the population can constitute as the base of anything. Part of a base, certainly... I suppose we'll see. 

 

On 11/14/2018 at 5:24 PM, Juliajms said:

I was hoping he would harangue Trump for the next 2 years. Oh well.  Hopefully, his ex will recover and get in line to sue his ass.

Not so fast!!! This was reported by TMZ, and as we all know, Harvey Levin's lips have been on Trump's backside since the get go. 

 

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@alphanguy74 I can’t answer you if you fail to realize Why. Bernie lost. All this stupid rigging narrative the Bernie folks bought into is BS. The 2008 primary was much nastier. Hillary got 4mil more votes in 2016 and like it or not Bernie won not one southern state. You seem to think someone can win a primary while ignoring the people in states across the south and think the rust belt are the only important states?  There’s a big difference between a primary and GE and sorry in that case that 6 to 12 percent is an influential number of voters. Barack Obama understood that. He campaigned in the south during the primary and won The Carolinas, Mississippi, Louisiana, etc while losing Ohio and Pa. he also won those 2 states in the GE. He understood how to build a coalition.

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