KNOTS LANDING

[DRW50]

I also wanted to say I'm so glad you put that little shot of Frank on his guitar. Frank and Larry Riley were also a very underrated element of the last years of Knots Landing and in adding some freshness to a group we were beginning to know a little too well.  

 

Now that I'm seeing these again I'm reminded of how many episodes those seasons had. I think it was like 27, 28, 29 at one point, wasn't it? These days dramas struggle to even produce 20.

Edited October 13, 2017 by DRW50

[KMan101]

 

+1

 

I hated her early on but man ... the turn she takes lol

[YRBB]

 

The 'funny' thing is, we saw him in private moments before (for a few seconds after Val would exit) and he seemed normal. But I guess things are starting to get complicated now, so the psycho's coming out. Besides, they kept him a pretty much empty slate up until now, so they could fill those holes with anything they want & it's not like it would contradict anything we've seen so far as viewers.

 

You are right about Lotus Point vs Sumner Group. Lotus Point was the embodiment of early/mid-80s soap opera business. Big, dramatic, dark colors, melodramatic. SG really feels much more late 80s. Lighter, more pastel, even slightly more professional  lol I miss Lotus Point, and the fact that it brought so many characters together, but I think the show moved on with the times in a way. 

 

 

That was my favorite from all the screencaps. It's never a bad scene when he's in it. Now, if only Patricia could get a little more to do....

 

Yep, the show put out 3 seasons of 30 episodes before settling around 28 or 29. This one has 29!

 

 

Y'all are driving me crazy. I can't wait. So far, I imagine the stabbing in PSYCHO (complete with music) every time that thing opens her mouth.

[KMan101]

On Linda (no storyline spoilers) ...

 

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I'm also reminded of how this season isn't my favorite. Lots of mundane storylines and not very interesting things going on. Paige/Sumner was what kept me the most interested at this point. Danny losing his shine also helped. I'm just cringing at the Harold/Olivia stuff. lol

Edited October 15, 2017 by KMan101

[YRBB]

EPISODE 5: BEST INTERESTS

 

Amanda and Chester drive off and thus resumes yet another succession of scenes in which Gary tries to reach/find/call/locate Amanda and everything in the universe stands in his way. As a final recourse, he goes to Val's so he can ask for Amanda's number. The whole thing goes spectacularly badly, since Danny is there, and long story short, Danny ends up admitting that he’s married to Amanda! I gasped. Gary is written as particularly weak here – he tries to punch Danny and hurts his hand on the door. Ok, but really?

 

On the other hand, we see some strength in Val that we haven’t witnessed in a long time. Val quickly ends things with Danny and refuses to return his calls or allow him to explain. Eventually, she decides to hear him out – and in one of her most thrilling moments ever, tells him to leave her alone in no uncertain terms. It’s obvious this won’t end there, but it’s exciting to watch Val react to Danny's betrayal the way you expect her to.

 

Danny, to prove his … well, I don’t know, tells Amanda where to find Gary. Amanda shows up at the ranch with Chester, and the two spend a long, romantic day actually talking to each other face to face.

 

There is a return to the feeling of neighborhood in this episode. I really love the scene with Mack, Karen and Val just hanging out outside at the cul-de-sac, talking, groceries moved from car to house, and then Ginny's arrival with the hilarious news of her arrest.

 

Paige is resolved to make Greg squirm and wait and get jealous – as much as possible. The hilarious part is, she succeeds. Greg is waiting and squirming and peeking through windows and is making a fool of himself – to our viewing pleasure.  

 

The Ginny stuff is so unexpected. The initial scene of the story throws you right in: Ginny visits a couple people with the twins. One of those people, Jeri, taking advantage of the distraction the twins provide, steals money from a safe. It’s a genuinely wtf moment. Next thing we see, a police car pulls up at the cul-de-sac and you think you know where this is going: Ginny will somehow end up taking the blame. But it quickly proves to be so much more than that. Before long, there’s a whole case that draws Mack and Frank in, a mysterious-corporate-evil-figure that lurks in the shadows, threats of jail and trial. By the end of the episode, I’m really hooked. I particularly liked that bedroom scene with Mack and Karen, where you see the passion and determination return to him – he knows something fishy is happening and he will find out. It feels the character has purpose again. Unfortunately, poor defender of retirees everywhere Jeri gets thrown out a window to the pavement below.  

 

Winner of the episode: Val, for finding her strength and determination again.

 

Loser of the episode: Evil corporation representative/lawyer Mark Baylor. Despite his endless efforts and his main adversary ending up with her blood splattered all over the pavement, he somehow comes across as a bigger loser.

 

[DRW50]

I'd forgotten about Aunt Ginny until now. She was obviously a Lillimae replacement (which makes you wonder why they didn't just try to get Julie Harris back), but Betsy Palmer had her own special style and kookiness. 

 

I kind of wonder if Joan van Ark asked that Val push Danny away rather than forgiving him.

 

I remember how shocked I was when that man went through the window. It was a strong glimpse of the complex crime stories that the Lechowicks would favor here and elsewhere. And it was interesting, although I think we're going to get to Mack bellowing DIRTY COP DIRTY COP DIRTY COP soon, unless we've already gotten to that. Hate hate hate hate hate. 

[Khan]

 

One word: money.  It was probably cheaper to hire a new actor than to keep employing Harris, whose salary probably had increased with each season (as most actors' salaries on long-running series tend to do).

 

Anyway, that's my theory.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Khan

[DRW50]

 

I think that is why they let her go, so you're probably right. 

[Soaplovers]

 

Do you think Abby would have fit in at the Sumner Group?  She wouldn't have had the interesting history/dynamics of working with both Gary/Karen... but her and Sumner would have been interesting in a different way.. plus her and Paige as well.

[DRW50]

 

I don't think the Lechowicks understood Abby's character (as I think Donna Mills suggested as well) - there was something very mechanical about her last season, up to her last episode, which was much better thanks to the "Abby scale" scene and her finally cutting the cord with ungrateful Olivia. I think they also had a really hard time covering up that they loved Paige and likely vastly preferred her to Abby. 

 

I think Abby was too complicated a character for them, as she always did plenty of scheming, but had a great deal of vulnerability to her. They didn't seem to understand that. The only other woman on Knots who was more complicated was Laura, and they ditched her too.

 

The closest they got to capturing that type of complexity was Anne, who was much more of a supporting character. 

Edited October 29, 2017 by DRW50

[YRBB]

 

The story is indeed very promising. He hasn't done that yet, although I'm sure this is going that direction. So far, it's been all about a dirty lawyer lol

 

 

 

Oh, without a doubt both Harris and McCashin were fired to free up the budget. But it's clear they had the least use for them anyway. Other than the loss of the actresses/characters, the problem was that Val still needed that dynamic in her storylines, hence the sudden appearance of Ginny as a dime-store replacement.

 

I do, think, however, that she's a little stronger now with the beginning of this story. It's solidified her a little bit. 

 

 

Well, she was at Sumner Group for a good portion of Season 10, so I think, if they had truly been interested in writing for her, it wouldn't have been a problem. If Abby fit in at such diverse places as Knots Landing Motors and Lotus Point, then SG would have been fine.

 

 

While I loved her final storyline (and probably the only brilliant story they ever gave her), it was clear they weren't feeling her as soon as Season 8 started. I swear, it felt in season 8 that she would show up for a scene or two an episode and then disappear. But it was nothing compared to the evilness of her season 9 story.

 

From the beginning, it was clear they "got" and liked Greg, Paige, and Karen, and Mack to a lesser extent. And it was equally obvious they didn't have as much interest for Val, Gary, Laura, Lilimae, and Abby. And they really didn't get Ben. It's a shame that they didn't recognize the drawing power those characters had. I'm only glad Jacobs and Filerman were still around. I am fairly certain they might have gotten rid of all of them (instead of most of them) if they could.

 

 

[YRBB]

EPISODE 6: WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE

 

So much great stuff! Such a good season so far. Aunt Virginia is put to some good comedic use following Jeri’s murder. Can you imagine how difficult she would be as a witness? Well, she’s worse! It all clearly is heading towards Ginny being accused of Jeri’s murder, but it barrels on with such conviction and such fun that you don’t care.

 

Greg takes Paige's games and uses them against her by piling on so much work, she doesn’t have time for anything else. Consummate professional that she is, Paige responds by doing her job. Meanwhile, surprisingly, Greg and Paula (who’s still arguing with Karen over wanting Karen's husband’s penis) run into each other. Holy randomness! The two begin to spar in a way that’s obviously meant to be sexy, only we’ve never really seen Paula behave like this before, have we? Greg would never give her a second look, unless she suddenly develops a Paige-like acerbic tongue that catches his attention and matches his wit – and so she does. Yet, I can’t deny, this could be fun. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, they do with it. Karen and Paula make up, only for Karen to find out Paula's going out with Greg.

 

It’s not the only Greg-surprise Karen gets this week. She learns that Michael's bought himself a fancy smancy watch and, in a way that recalls the Karen of seasons 1 or 2, mercilessly makes fun of Michael for the extravagance. A few million dollars have not changed Karen for-the-people McKenzie. It’s not all fun and games, though, when she realizes Michael was inspired to get the watch by Greg. I loved that little realization.

 

Val and Amanda officially meet or re-meet or whatever, after which Danny goes crying to Amanda and spends the night with her. The next day, he finds Val waiting for him outside his apartment. She forgives him. Val is given a big speech to explain this but, honestly, it all screams plot point. How did she reach this point? How and why did she make this decision? I didn’t get a good enough answer, BUT… I’ll reserve judgment as long as the plot that results from this is good.

 

Mack ends up with the theory that Mark Baylor killed Jeri and warns that he will put him away. Instead, you guessed it, aunt Ginny is arrested! Mack gives good shock-face freezeframe.

 

Winner of the episode: Mack, for getting his drive back.

 

Loser of the episode: Paige, for not seeing this coming.

  

 

 

 

[DRW50]

 

I felt like they were trying to replicate his banter with Laura to contrast his relationship with Paige. Doesn't quite work though.

 

I think mostly they liked Melinda Culea but didn't know what to do with her. 

[amybrickwallace]

Here's an article about Donna Mills in a stage version of Driving Miss Daisy:

 

https://myburbank.com/11/news/donna-mills-opens-driving-miss-daisy-at-the-colony/

[Cat]

It's been over a year since I've been meaning to come to this thread. CBS Drama, a cable station where I am, started showing Knots Landing from beginning to end on weekday mornings, and so I recorded the episodes and started watching them. I had never watched KL before (I am a Dynasty girl). I cannot tell you how much I love this show. Right now I am coming to the end of Season 8. It really is an epic tapestry of these people moving on up as their suburban cul-de-sac gets caught up in the go-go 80s. My favourite movie is Chinatown and if you have ever seen that movie, you cannot fail to see the parallels between that and the growth of the Valley as part of Greater Los Angeles as chronicled by Knots Landing -- especially in seasons 5-6. It also takes on the theme of wealthy people raping the land in their obsession with profit -- and mowing down people in their wake. (Ciji's sad demise in S4 being an example of how rapacious people use someone's talent and then discard them when they need help the most).

 

The thing that has surprised me is how KL seems to have a romantic soul. Even cynical, Kennedyesque Greg Sumner is a romantic deep, deep down. It surprises me because KL's sibling show Dallas was like a fast-moving train steered by the Hooded Claw (basically JR Ewing). Here, David Jacobs teases out all the drama of the setting via the relationships between people. That focus on feelings really appeals to me. Plus I enjoy the stories for the most part. Yes, ofc there are missteps (Ben turning into a cold, robotic paranoid being the most egregious -- what a horrendous rewrite of this character. He was a warm, sexy heroic figure with a sense of humor, kind of like Ryan on AW, which soapy shows just do not do anymore). But on the whole I feel like I am turning the pages of a really good book I don't want to put down. It makes me disappointed that Lynn Marie Latham was such a lacklustre writer on Y&R when she could have brought THIS delicious storytelling to the show. What went wrong? Should Bernie Lechowick have been her co-HW? Was it the oversight of David Jacobs and Lawrence Kasha which provided Knot's Landing's best SLs and steered the ship?

 

So I am halfway through the S8 episode where Anne overdoses (while listening to Dedicated to the One I Love, a song Michelle Phillips sang with the Mamas and the Papas)and Evil Peter is about to come onto teenage Olivia. Anne is a really good addition to the show (as was Paige this season -- wow! Breath of fresh air) and she reinvigorated the characters of Karen and Mack. While I am glad Mack held back from falling into an affair with her, I am sorry that Anne will be going away for a couple of seasons before returning.

 

I am also feeling a little nervous about going into S9. I am worried that after eight excellent seasons, the quality will start to drop. Please tell me it won't! 

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Edited November 29, 2017 by Cat