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Loving/The City Discussion Thread

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14 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

@Vee thanks for finding that Ava scene. On the one hand her speech feels a bit generic to me and I can see why some felt her reactions were out of character, but Lisa Peluso sells the material as well as she can. Watching some of the episodes in Randolph's absence reminds me that Ava had a lot going on in her own right outside of Alex, and he can be somewhat suffocating to her as a character. I'm mostly sorry that we never got one last chapter with her, but I guess that was Lisa's choice. 

 

I love them together, but I do wish we could see them once more. (Of course, if I had an ABC soap revival we'd also see the ghost of Gwyneth Alden some Halloween, so...)

Edited by Vee

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14 minutes ago, Vee said:

 

I love them together, but I do wish we could see them once more. (Of course, if I had an ABC soap revival we'd also see the ghost of Gwyneth Alden some Halloween, so...)

 

It's something that could have been interesting on GH, although not with Ron writing.

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4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

I thought he was fine enough - charismatic, if a bit on the smarmier side without as much emphasis on sympathetic elements. The decision to make him the heavy in the Rocky and Todd story, and then transferring this over to Rocky and Rio by trying to have Rio deported, was a waste of the character. Sadly Loving seemed to keep making Curtis the heavy in pairings through the '90s - at least with Dinah Lee and Trucker I could say they were fairly compelling, but Rocky...? Eh. Not worth character trashing. The most interesting thing about her pairings were that the guys would have been more compelling if they'd hooked up with each other. (considering her quasi-threesome fantasy I imagine she would agree)

The only Curtis I never saw was Burke Moses. Id say my least fave was Michael Lord. I liked Patrick T Johnson better. However the OG, Chris Marcantel was the best. Chip does seem smarmy. That is a great description

Edited by John

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1 minute ago, John said:

The only Curtis I never saw was Burke Moses. Id say my least fave was Michael Lord. I liked Patrick T Johnson better. However the OG, Chris Marcantel was the best. Chop does seem smarmy. That is a great description

 

I'll be honest - I knew Chip from his softcore porn work before I ever knew he was on Loving. So it was a strange adjustment. I'm glad he uploaded all those clips for us though. 

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I noticed when Christine returned as Gwyneth in 1991, they were having her dress like Elizabeth Savage. I wonder why they stopped that. After seeing Marrianne Tantum as temp Gwen in 1989 before Savage and again in 90 before Savage left, why didnt they just hire MT to replace Christine in 89

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

 

I'll be honest - I knew Chip from his softcore porn work before I ever knew he was on Loving. So it was a strange adjustment. I'm glad he uploaded all those clips for us though. 

Wait what? I know he also did GL, AMC & AW. I never knew he did soft core. Lots of actors in soaps have

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1 minute ago, John said:

I noticed when Christine returned as Gwyneth in 1991, they were having her dress like Elizabeth Savage. I wonder why they stopped that. After seeing Marrianne Tantum as temp Gwen in 1989 before Savage and again in 90 before Savage left, why didnt they just hire MT to replace Christine in 89

Wait what? I know he also did GL, AMC & AW. I never knew he did soft core. Lots of actors in soaps have

 

Most of his softcore work is credited to Frank Harper. 

 

I notice that too about Tudor - I figure it must wind down sometime in 1992. She's in a very eye-popping outfit for Clay and Dinah Lee's 'wedding.'

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2 hours ago, John said:

The only Curtis I never saw was Burke Moses. Id say my least fave was Michael Lord. I liked Patrick T Johnson better. However the OG, Chris Marcantel was the best. Chip does seem smarmy. That is a great description

Ha! For me that is the only one I saw :D

He was good, I enjoyed him from what I can remember. 

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Does anyone have any websites which have Loving episode summaries? I am collecting episode summaries for the soaps and for Loving I only have some 1994 and 1995 episode summaries... so I would appreciate any help.  :)

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On 6/9/2020 at 11:00 AM, John said:

Didnt Curtis (Burke Moses) Marry Lottie in 1988. Then when CA took over in 1989, Lottie had died

 

I liked Patrick T Johnson better than Michael Lord But Chris Marcantel was the best Curtis

Was Celeste fired to save $$$$$$

 

Burke Moses left in 1987. He landed the role of Rapunzel's Prince in the Broadway production "Into the Woods" during the summer of 1987. Moses was given a 2 month leave of absence to prepare for the play. Curtis was shipped off to Germany. Moses and the production team couldn't reach an agreement about his return, and he was let go in September 1987. I'm not even sure they brought him back for an exit. In the initial news releases, the show stated they planned on recasting, but they dropped the character of Lotty. Judith Hoag departed in November 1987 with Lotty announcing to Ned she was going to Germany to join Curtis. 

 

Lotty and Curtis married the week of May 18th, 1987. 

 

Later on, someone asked about Ned Bates. I don't think he made it into 1988. If anyone has some more definitive proof one way or another, I'd be happy to see it. When Lotty initially departs, Ned does stay on as a border at Kate's, however immediately after Lotty leaves Ned learns April was leaving. Perry is still in the credits for November 16, 1987 while Lotty, Curtis, Marty, and April are all gone. Then, Steve is shot during the November 1987 bank hold up and dies in early December 1987, which lines up with Johnson's December 1984 start date. Ned would only have Kate to interact with. Cece, who was also living in the boarding house, was written out in December 1987. I just cannot see him staying on with no one to even be a talk to for. 

 

On 6/9/2020 at 2:53 PM, j swift said:

Also, I know the Forbes disappeared after the first years of show, but was the mansion always the Alden's?  Or did Roger and Ann live in a different mansion than Cabot and Isabelle?  Weren't the Forbes also rich on their own, given the facts of the pilot?

 

I think the Aldens always owned the mansion. I believe Johnny Forbes, Roger Forbes' father, had made his own money through his construction company, Forbes Construction, which was a pretty prominent business during the Marland years. 

 

On 6/15/2020 at 12:08 AM, cassadine1991 said:

Sucks that we don’t know the exact date these regime changes happened

 

Credits are hard to come by for "Loving." Without seeing scripts, it would probably be hard to know. Then, of course, you have the questionable authorship of 1992, which I don't know if that ever will be cleared up other than asking Addie Walsh directly. 

 

On 6/17/2020 at 11:48 PM, John said:

LOVING fans Ive been watching clips of Chip Albers turn as Curtis from 1989-1991. It seemed decent. Im sure his gig on AMC in 1988 got him the role of Curtis. What did others think of him in the role?

 

Albers seems fine, but Curtis is such a different character due to no fault of Albers. The show had changed so much since 1983 when Curtis was a rascal and conniving schemer. Taggert and King clearly are playing him as Trisha's brother so that is why he is always in the orbit of Trucker's sister. It makes for a tight B-story to the Trucker and Trisha story, but I just don't find it all that interesting. It would have been interesting if Jeff Hartman had managed to woo Curtis to his side through promising to help his career at Alden Enterprises through the production division and played Curtis' divided loyalties. The Dan Hollister murder story doesn't interest me because Hollister is such a ill conceived character from the spy story. 

 

To be fair, I have similar issues with Patrick T. Johnson's Curtis, who Taggart and Guza introduce. His Curtis cannot escape the mold of being Trisha's brother even though the potential of a Curtis / Dinahlee / Clay triangle is intriguing. Even with Trisha gone, Curtis is still tied to one of Trucker's siblings (Buck). 

 

I do think Albers played a much lighter version of Curtis very well. One of the moments I enjoyed from his run is when Curtis crashes Trisha's bachelorette party in drag with Dave Hindman. This was inspired by a real life incident where Albers, Randy Mantooth, and a couple other male cast members crashed either Lauren Marie Taylor or Noelle Beck's baby shower also donning women's clothing. 

 

On 6/18/2020 at 5:58 AM, DRW50 said:

I thought he was fine enough - charismatic, if a bit on the smarmier side without as much emphasis on sympathetic elements. The decision to make him the heavy in the Rocky and Todd story, and then transferring this over to Rocky and Rio by trying to have Rio deported, was a waste of the character. Sadly Loving seemed to keep making Curtis the heavy in pairings through the '90s - at least with Dinah Lee and Trucker I could say they were fairly compelling, but Rocky...? Eh. Not worth character trashing. The most interesting thing about her pairings were that the guys would have been more compelling if they'd hooked up with each other. (considering her quasi-threesome fantasy I imagine she would agree)

 

The bulk of the Trucker / Dinahlee / Curtis stuff is pretty even keeled, in my opinion. Curtis is clearly suffering from post traumatic stress due to his experiences with Dante and is refusing to recognize the need for help. It puts Dinahlee in an interesting spot as she does want to protect him. Dinahlee clearly loves Curtis, but she is not in love with him. There is actually a decent scene between Dinahlee, Curtis, Gwyn, and Clay at Pins where they are all trying to support Curtis despite all their twisted relationships with one another. I even can handle most of Curtis tricking Trucker into thinking Trisha is alive because, well, she is alive. I start to lose my favor with a lot of things around August 1994 when Curtis manipulates the airplane that kills Janie Sinclaire and Jessica Collins leaves. 

 

On 6/18/2020 at 7:46 AM, Manny said:

I watched Loving for only one year, because it only aired for one year in my country before being cancelled.

 

I don't really know which year it was (I guess late 80s), but I really enjoy it. I was a kid back then, but I still remember some scenes. Like when Steve dies after that bank robbery; Ned (played by now late Luke Perry) finding out that his girlfriend (I want to say April was her name?) was a prostitute; I remember Ned's sister Lotty, she dated Curtis Alden, I believe. "Clay" just showed up in town as alive with a different face. And I believe last episode that aired had Ava being kidnapped or something... I cannot remember the details anymore. 

 

Clay pops up alive in mid-January 1987 and Steve dies in early December 1987. It was probably 1987 that aired.

 

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6 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Later on, someone asked about Ned Bates. I don't think he made it into 1988. If anyone has some more definitive proof one way or another, I'd be happy to see it. When Lotty initially departs, Ned does stay on as a border at Kate's, however immediately after Lotty leaves Ned learns April was leaving. Perry is still in the credits for November 16, 1987 while Lotty, Curtis, Marty, and April are all gone. Then, Steve is shot during the November 1987 bank hold up and dies in early December 1987, which lines up with Johnson's December 1984 start date. Ned would only have Kate to interact with. Cece, who was also living in the boarding house, was written out in December 1987. I just cannot see him staying on with no one to even be a talk to for.

 

 

This weekly synopsis has the last mention of Ned... https://classicsodloving.tumblr.com/post/76887132063/week-of-november-9-november-13-1987, which seems in line with what you have posted above.

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