Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

 

What do you think of Christopher Cass as Jack? I guess I get the idea of recasting him to be more snappy and different from the other men on the show, but he's just a world away from Perry Stephens. He also looks just like Robert Preston, which isn't a bad thing, but is distracting for what Jack was supposed to be. 

 

Lisa Peluso is the unsung hero in a lot of the episodes of this time period. Not that they're good only because of her - they're decent enough - but the way she goes between fantasies, romance, comedy, drama, sibling rivalry - she can play anything and give it such depth. And in such a soap opera way. 

 

Colleen Quinn is also very good - she was thrown into the deep end with all this drama but she makes it work. 

 

I guess these episodes were also the last of Elizabeth Savage. 

 

So did Wally have a twin brother (the one in prison with him)? I wish they'd given Ilene Kristen something a bit better to do...

 

The way they have Rocky keeping all these secrets and also trying to keep Monty at bay means she has a lot of important scenes, but it's odd how rarely we see her with Rio, who was supposed to be her husband. I was glad to finally see them having a real talk in the episode where Abril was missing. 

 

I'm always so impressed with James Horan in these episodes as well. I guess I can see why they recast, as his Clay doesn't have the strong edge the character probably needs, but he works very well with everyone and gives the character a lot of layers. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by DRW50

[dc11786]

I don't what to think of Christopher Cass. To me, Perry Stephens always seemed like he was haunted by something and so did Jack. In terms of the character, I felt it had a lot to do with the problems regarding his paternity. I think Cass is probably the stronger actor, but he doesn't have the history. Trying to create a friendship between Trucker and Jack was interesting, but I'm not sure how I feel about that. I will say Robert Tyler impressed me when baby Benjamin died. I don't know if I had seen Trucker handle anything that really had any meat to it before. I remember reading an interview about Stephens firing and the producer at the time stated he was weak and then said she paired up Jack and Dumas' Alex Masters to use up their guarantees and not to hinder other stories. I thought that was a bit crass.

 

Peluso really does display range in these episodes. 

 

I was pretty sure Christine Tudor returned in May. She has a very early 1990s look with her return. I remember seeing women with that look in the magazines at the hair salon when my mom got her hair cut. Based on what I've seen, I prefer Tudor to Savage, but I think Savage would have made an interesting addition to the canvas in another role. Either as an ex-wife to Dane or possibly a friend of Jack's biological mother who pursued Jack. 

 

The Dane / Paul scene was very nice in the May 1990 clip. When Paul was talking to Ava about his job hunt, I thought Paul and Dane were similar characters. It was nice to see a scene that also commented on that. A lot of the big story in 1990 doesn't interest me (the plane crash, the Rick murder, the mob stuff with Paul) but there are definitely elements that I think are very interesting and seem to lead somewhere in 1991. 

 

Norma is a bit detached from the main story. Wally / Denny were twins. I think one dies at one point and Norma thinks the other came back from the dead. It's a shame that Norma couldn't have been tied in better to the main plot. I could take or leave her material, and I appreciate Ilene Kristen's work. I see how well they integrated Monty into the canvas and I wish the same could have been done for Norma. I think letting her stay at the boarding house would have helped especially since she was living off of tips at the Bistro. I think Ava and Carly would have had a field day with Norma. 

 

Funny, I was thrilled by the lack of Rocky and Rio in these episodes. Rena Sofer works better for me in the family drama though I did appreciate Rio and Rocky's conflict when Abril disappeared. From these episodes, I don't get a sense of who Rio is. I wish there was more depth to him because Rick Telles seems competent. 

 

I was sorry to see that Matthew Labine had died. His name has been standing out in the credits lately. I hope he and his mother have reunited. 

[DRW50]

 

That IS crass. It seems like the show had producer issues in these years (although they had so many producers). I remember reading that Savage left the show on bad terms so I wonder if she was also poorly treated. 

[victoria foxton]

 

[victoria foxton]

 

[DRW50]

That's the earliest I've seen of Dinah Lee. She's fun as a vixen. And seeing Stacey so bitchy is also surprisingly fun.

 

Had there already been a HW change from the April and May episodes? Trisha seems much more petulant here, having a meltdown over Trucker "ruining" her dinner party. Cringeworthy. 

 

The Paul and Ava material is markedly different from what they had only 3-4 months earlier. It's interesting to watch though. I guess Flynn is yet another character who amounted to nothing in spite of being promising. 

 

Given that Paul was only on the show for about two years it's astonishing how many different storylines he cycled through.

[Soaplovers]

Flynn lasted a good year or so...very tragic ending and caused a lot of angst for Carly...and then another change in regime happened and she was gone.

[John]

Jacjkie Babbin was EP April 1990-July 1991. Ilene Kristen said in an interview that ABC basically made the decision to stop using Norma. I belive Ilene was recurring. She called up Babin herself and Ilene tells it as Babbin was swearing about network heads butting in. 

[dc11786]

Between May and October 1991, not only did Fran Sears replace Jacqueline Babbin, but Mary Ryan Munisteri replaced Millee Taggert. 

[dc11786]

I enjoyed the October 1991 episode a lot more than I've enjoyed other episodes from that period. 

 

It was interesting to see them play the conflict beat Paul and Flynn. It would have been easy to quickly go to the tension between Paul and Ava over Flynn and Ava's faux work romance, but it was nice to see that the initial tension stemmed between two friends. I also really enjoyed the way they had Flynn address the romantic tension between himself and Ava. The writing was really strong for all of this material. Ava easily could have gone into hysterics (as she would on modern soap), but she just proclaimed her love for Paul. I thought that was a mature reaction for a character who had shown a lot of layers in the Feb - May episodes. 

 

Paul's radio show was such a different direction for the character. Both Ava and Paul's new careers are less interesting than the ones they were previously pursuing, but I think the idea of knocking Ava down to have her climb up again was such an important part of Ava's character. Her ability to survive all the things she had thrown at her, often created by her own impetuousness. I thought Paul's Weird City monologue was wickedly over the top, but it's the kind of craziness that I can enjoy in small doses. I still cannot believe the show ended on the beat with Paul and Flynn and that great jazz music cue. 

 

I thought the party at the Corinth Towers suite was a nice contrast to the events playing out at Checkers. This must have been a very early episode for Richard Cox as Giff. It was nice to see Giff in his initial form, a genuinely nice guy. I get what they were doing with Trucker and Trisha. They were playing the class differences between working class baseball loving Trucker and art appreciating upper class Trisha. I love the added layer that Giff could love both. Trisha's reaction was extreme, or Noelle Beck choose to play it that way or she was directed to go further. I think if they had allowed that moment to be a more subtle, like a lot of the other tension building between them, it would have been more effective. I really liked how Robert Tyler played his reaction to Dinahlee at the bar. You can see where this is all going without being hit over the head with a  hammer. 

 

Lauren Marie Taylor was the real standout in this. Stacey always comes off so plain jane and boring. There is some real fire here. Her reaction to Jack and Dinahlee was wonderful. And Taylor was genuinely sexy in that outfit. I really would love to see more of this story now. 

 

I loved how they used Christine Tudor's Gwyn. The light banter between her and Giff was nice as was the moment where she played potstirrer and let Stacey know that Dinahlee had worn the dress. 

[DRW50]

 

I loved that too. She's very bitchy and sly here - even that outfit, which is so '50s chic/glam/ordinary. 

[NothinButAttitude]

 

[DRW50]

Thanks. @Nothin'ButAttitude you probably enjoyed the lengthy Trucker shirtless scene. I did...

 

I still can't quite process all this high drama with them or with Jack and Dinah Lee and Shana. It's such a sea change from earlier in the year. I can't say I'm all that fond of it. Susan Keith seems to be playing Cecile here. Certainly fascinating to watch though.

 

The scene with Stacey and Trisha was pretty good. This is also the first time I've ever seen Rose Donovan.

 

This is so early for Ally. The earliest I've seen. They were definitely trying to make her look like Carly and Ava here. At first I actually thought it was Carly. 

 

That Matt guy was cute. It's too bad he was written out. I don't think the actor went on to much.

 

Loving had a much better younger, more natural younger cast, even as they cycle in and out so fast, than most of the soaps at this time.

Edited September 22, 2017 by DRW50

[NothinButAttitude]

 

[Soaplovers]

Shana was kind of like Cecile when she first came on...then fell in love and left town...only coming back once she lost her spouse and child...so she was tortured for awhile then she ran AE with Jack for awhile...then decided she wanted to be a mom...and fell in love with the father of the baby.  Her character had a lot of shades and different phases she went though.

 

The late 1991 episodes were written by the Mary Ryan M writer...but it didn't have an identity during this late 1991 period.  I do think she was trying to reestablish the haves and havenots with the aldens and Rescotts...with Dinah Lee as the spoiler.  It wasn't bad whatsoever...but it's non descript.  She had three brief stints as headwriter..and she wasn't bad but w asnt good either.  Some people are just not cut out to he headwriter..and I guess Mary Ryan M was one.  It's a shame nowadays hacks like Higley, pratt,etc are given 1 or more years as headwriters when ok headwriters like Mary Ryan M get a few months at most at the helm.  I will say I liked that she invented Giff as a bridge between the haves and havenots...and thought he and Gwyn worked as a couple.  I do think she set up some good dynamics and plots with Dinah Lee being a brief spoiler for trucker and trisha...and that allowed months of story once she left.