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55 minutes ago, Tyro said:

*They could have had Count Armonti come back from the dead. That would have been interesting. Especially if they had landed a powerhouse actor to play him. Will Sophia choose CC, Lionel or  Rodolpho Armonti?*

Rodolpho? Is that the Count's real name? When did it sound?

I made up a first name. I wanted Giuseppe, but couldn't remember how to spell it! Lol

 

1 hour ago, Tyro said:

 

The Italian aristocracy is an incredible source of ideas for the plot! By the way, Marcello told Sophia that some people are waiting her back home in Italy. This means that there was someone else from the family who was not told about. The writers cast the bait, but didn''t develop the idea

As for Marcello. How could he devote half his life to Sophia without demanding anything in return? He wasn't a gay. He was a couple of years older than her. And he constantly gave her a massage (a typical reflex for those who liked Sophia as a woman - for example, CC and Stephen Slade did the same)! 

And she betrayed him in the end. So Marcello is nominated as the first candidate to return with revenge plans. Sophia must have her own personal maniac, like every decent resident of Santa Barbara. And I suppose, Katrina Ruyker was the first step to that.

Maybe Marcello is the only person in soapdom who is creeped out by dating his step parent. 

Sophia did choose CCs son. But she did know Hailey very well, and encouraged CC to support his son in dating her.

I was done with Marcello. But the Count could have an evil brother. He could have been crushing on her, or been rejected by her.

I like Joe Mascolo. And since it's pretend I'll go FULL pretend.  Jed Allan as CC from episode 1. Charles Bateman as the count.

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The old count could have a real son he didn't even know about.  And this young Armonti could find out his origin, made inquiries about the woman who had received all the inheritance, and made sure that she had no right to it, because the marriage with the count was invalid! He could consider Sophia a fraud and start a war. But then...

*I made up a first name. I wanted Giuseppe, but couldn't remember how to spell it! Lol*

I had a sort of hallucination that his first name was Armando (probably by consonance, lol). I don't remember his name was mentioned.

*Charles Bateman as the count.*

Yeah, it could be. He would have looked better as a stranger. After all, the best thing he did was playing nostalgia for Sophia. As a lover, his CC was inferior even to Lionel. Their duet with Judith lost its charm for me during rewatching. Jed wrote in his book that the producers decided to recast CC precisely because Charles and Judith had problem with the chemistry (and now I really see that Charles had more chemistry with Linda). Jed was invited to enhance the romantic vibes between Sophia and CC.

 

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1 hour ago, Tyro said:

The old count could have a real son he didn't even know about.  And this young Armonti could find out his origin, made inquiries about the woman who had received all the inheritance, and made sure that she had no right to it, because the marriage with the count was invalid! He could consider Sophia a fraud and start a war. But then...

While we're playing "what if" -  how about if Phyllis Blake admitted to a wartime affair with the Count which resulted in the conception of Gina?  Ms. Blake's backstory was very fluid, so anything was possible.  And it would have made the rivalry between Gina's Jeans and Armonti Industries even more personal.

For those who deride Tori,  I have lamented before that a missed opportunity was exploring Sophia as an aging former starlet compared to Tori who was on the final crest of stardom.  I was delighted to hear that @Marissa Gallant found scenes where Sophia exerted her dominance.  However, it would have been great to see more interactions between the two once Tori became an addict and tried to ruin Eden's happiness, in the style of Valley of the Dolls, when Helen Lawson tells the younger Neely that Broadway "doesn't go for booze and dope. Now get out of my way, I've got a man waiting for me."  I think there was so much drama to mine out of a woman who once drove men mad, but now was aging and fighting with her daughter for the attention of a the gigolos in town.  Ladies at home who felt left out of the culture of 1980s working women would have eaten that stuff up with a spoon.

As for Haley, there is that terrible form of soap justice where Haley was punished by becoming a victim of sexual assault.  However, what I think was unexplored with that character was her motivation for joining the environmentalists in the first place.  Haley was always a very ethical young woman, but I am interested in her more radical side.  I know the bomb was written as a mistake, but I wonder what drew her to such extreme beliefs?  How did she become such an easy mark for the environmentalists?  There has to be a difference between someone who politically opposes off-shore drilling versus those who would resort to violence to make their case, and I still don't know what drove Haley toward those who held such extreme ideas. 

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No one was ever charged in Amy Perkins Wallace's death in the bomb explosion, right? Earlier in the episode, the one protestor was shown putting the explosive device in the can that he deliberately handed to Hayley and urged her to throw. I think they just dropped that part of the story was dropped too quickly. She really was framed.

Of course, Amy (for all intents and purposes the last remnant of one of the show's original core families) was too quickly forgotten once Kerry Sherman left. As much as I liked Kerry Sherman (who left SB and show business altogether while pregnant with her second child - her first pregnancy had been written into the storyline), I felt Amy should have been recast. Her husband, Brick - the biological son of Sophia and Lionel - was too quickly marginalized. I also loved Amy's friendship with Julia. They didn't have to kill her off.

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3 hours ago, j swift said:

While we're playing "what if" -  how about if Phyllis Blake admitted to a wartime affair with the Count which resulted in the conception of Gina?  Ms. Blake's backstory was very fluid, so anything was possible.  And it would have made the rivalry between Gina's Jeans and Armonti Industries even more personal.

If we don't take into account that Gina was born in the mid-1950s, then... why not?

By the way, Sophia was born in 1941, that means she was 45 when 30-year-old Victoria Lane made Santa Barbara happy with her arrival. Look at Alicia Silverstone, Reese Witherspoon, Milla Jovovich, Kate Winslet, Angelina Jolie, Drew Barrymore, Eva Longoria, who are 45-46 years old today. Who can they be afraid of in their profession? 

I mean, having adult children didn't make Sophia old or aging. She was a woman in her prime.

Without a doubt, if Sophia was still a working actress, she would have wrapped Victoria in a curtain and thrown her into the orchestra pit. For a real fight, Tori had to be less melancholic than Kristen Meadows.

But Sophia has left the profession since she turned 20, and she held the position of the expert, not the acting prima donna. She had no reason to compete with Victoria. It only remained to become friends, lol.

But I'll try to develop your idea... It is really strange that the plot didn't work out the status of Santa Barbara as the residence of Hollywood stars. Both Sophia and Victoria couldn't be the only divas in this city. If the story had developed in the direction of glamour and the film industry, of course, Sophia would have taken a more important place in the character system (instead of "Oh,CC"/"Oh,Eden" technical support).

And the show would get more locations and plot twists. As far as I understand, in other soap operas a lot revolves around business issues, while Capwell Enterprises looked like a fictitious company for the first 5 years, because the working locations were mainly the court, the police office and the restaurants. No matter what anyone says, I love 1990 for having the theme of film industry. 

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I actually watched Amy's death yesterday, so it is very fresh. It isn't environmentalists that are the protesters. It's right wing extremists opposing the casino. Haley falls in with Lily Light. Ted broke up with Haley because she hid being Gina's niece. To Ted, that was basically like lying. Haley found out her friend Jane was really Roxanne and was aftee her boyfriend, Ted. Haley was on the outs with Gina because Gina tried to kill CC. So, Haley was alone and disillusioned. Enter charismatic Lily. Lily found out Haley was her cousin and groomed their relationship. Everyone around Haley could see the danger, but Haley was young, naive and stupid. It culminated in Haley being handed the bomb, which she threw. 

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13 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

No one was ever charged in Amy Perkins Wallace's death in the bomb explosion, right? Earlier in the episode, the one protestor was shown putting the explosive device in the can that he deliberately handed to Hayley and urged her to throw. I think they just dropped that part of the story was dropped too quickly. She really was framed.

Of course, Amy (for all intents and purposes the last remnant of one of the show's original core families) was too quickly forgotten once Kerry Sherman left. As much as I liked Kerry Sherman (who left SB and show business altogether while pregnant with her second child - her first pregnancy had been written into the storyline), I felt Amy should have been recast. Her husband, Brick - the biological son of Sophia and Lionel - was too quickly marginalized. I also loved Amy's friendship with Julia. They didn't have to kill her off.

I don't think anyone was charged in Hayley's death. 

I agree that Amy could have easily been recast. She'd been off the scene for months by this point. But then again, the show didn't know how to write a happily married woman and keep her interesting. And Brick could have had so many other things. 

13 hours ago, Tyro said:

 

I mean, having adult children didn't make Sophia old or aging. She was a woman in her prime.

Without a doubt, if Sophia was still a working actress, she would have wrapped Victoria in a curtain and thrown her into the orchestra pit. For a real fight, Tori had to be less melancholic than Kristen Meadows.

But Sophia has left the profession since she turned 20, and she held the position of the expert, not the acting prima donna. She had no reason to compete with Victoria. It only remained to become friends, lol.

But I'll try to develop your idea... It is really strange that the plot didn't work out the status of Santa Barbara as the residence of Hollywood stars. Both Sophia and Victoria couldn't be the only divas in this city. If the story had developed in the direction of glamour and the film industry, of course, Sophia would have taken a more important place in the character system (instead of "Oh,CC"/"Oh,Eden" technical support).

And the show would get more locations and plot twists. As far as I understand, in other soap operas a lot revolves around business issues, while Capwell Enterprises looked like a fictitious company for the first 5 years, because the working locations were mainly the court, the police office and the restaurants. No matter what anyone says, I love 1990 for having the theme of film industry. 

Agree that Sophia should have had more storylines. I still like the thought of bringing back Jade Perkins to give Jade and Sophia an All About Eve storyline.

 

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I'm afraid, Jade was too stupid and empty to be Eve. It could have been more interesting with Leiken. She and Sophia almost crossed paths in the film business in 1990...

But the problem is that Sophia wasn't Margot type at all. She herself was fighting for her place in this world for most life.  I would like her to reboot successfully her career in cinema. But to become Margot, she needed to gain a foothold in Hollywood for at least another 5-10 years.

However we could find traces of this classic plot in SB.

1. Cassandra. Sophia was her childhood's idol, but it was Cassie who ruined her restarting movie career.
2. The Capwell's  dinner in 1991. Dobsons rewrote their story of how Sophia became CC's wife. This time she previously took Pamela as a model and transformed into her. 

(I prefer the 1985 version anyway)

 

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16 minutes ago, Tyro said:

I'm afraid, Jade was too stupid and empty to be Eve. It could have been more interesting with Leiken. She and Sophia almost crossed paths in the film business in 1990...

 

The Sophia/Laken connection through acting could have been interesting.

I still remember a scene where Minx is trying to talk Laken out of becoming an actress by saying something along the lines of, "It was an actor that killed President Lincoln." And, Augusta had the great comeback of, "Minx should know. She was there."

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 The dialogue during the best years really sparkled.

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I have a feeling Jade Perkins was supposed to be more of a vixen at the beginning, but Missy Reeves (Brennan at the time) played her more as an adorable kitten. Honestly, the best screen partner she had on SB was Kerry Sherman (Amy Perkins). They had maybe the best big sister/little sister relationship I've ever seen on soaps. 

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2 hours ago, pdm1974 said:

The Sophia/Laken connection through acting could have been interesting.

Did Sophia and Leiken ever have any scenes together? I can't remember. 

 

2 hours ago, pdm1974 said:

I still remember a scene where Minx is trying to talk Laken out of becoming an actress by saying something along the lines of, "It was an actor that killed President Lincoln." And, Augusta had the great comeback of, "Minx should know. She was there."

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 The dialogue during the best years really sparkled.

Hahaha, thank you! 

"The curious case of Benj... Minx Lockridge" definitely deserves a prequel. I wasn't satisfied with the Cassandra story. At least there should have been another orphan in her place... No matter.

Sophia had told Minx bluntly in 1985 or 1986 that she herself had used the tunnel between Lockridge and Capwell houses and had no right to reproach her. It even seemed to me that Minx had an inexplicable sympathy for Sophia. After all, she was going to tell Lionel about her pregnancy and changed her mind only because he had announced Augusta's pregnancy. So if Augusta hadn't been pregnant, would Minx have preferred Sophia as a daughter-in-law?

And tunnel... What a pity that the secret of why the tunnel was dug between the houses of the enemies was never revealed 

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3 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

I have a feeling Jade Perkins was supposed to be more of a vixen at the beginning, but Missy Reeves (Brennan at the time) played her more as an adorable kitten. Honestly, the best screen partner she had on SB was Kerry Sherman (Amy Perkins). They had maybe the best big sister/little sister relationship I've ever seen on soaps. 

I really believe this too. They really had Jade talking the talk at the beginning. But once they brought Amy on, Jade grew up a little and the two were really great to watch.

 

5 hours ago, Tyro said:

I'm afraid, Jade was too stupid and empty to be Eve. It could have been more interesting with Leiken. She and Sophia almost crossed paths in the film business in 1990...

But the problem is that Sophia wasn't Margot type at all. She herself was fighting for her place in this world for most life.  I would like her to reboot successfully her career in cinema. But to become Margot, she needed to gain a foothold in Hollywood for at least another 5-10 years.

However we could find traces of this classic plot in SB.

1. Cassandra. Sophia was her childhood's idol, but it was Cassie who ruined her restarting movie career.
2. The Capwell's  dinner in 1991. Dobsons rewrote their story of how Sophia became CC's wife. This time she previously took Pamela as a model and transformed into her. 

(I prefer the 1985 version anyway)

 

I had stopped watching by Cassandra, because 1985 was better to me too, although 86 and the beginning of 87 were my favorite. CC and Sophia together, fighting off the rest of the world. So. Much. Chemistry. 

1 hour ago, Tyro said:

Sophia had told Minx bluntly in 1985 or 1986 that she herself had used the tunnel between Lockridge and Capwell houses and had no right to reproach her. It even seemed to me that Minx had an inexplicable sympathy for Sophia. After all, she was going to tell Lionel about her pregnancy and changed her mind only because he had announced Augusta's pregnancy. So if Augusta hadn't been pregnant, would Minx have preferred Sophia as a daughter-in-law?

Yes. They did. When Sophia first came back, Laiken confronted her and told her to get out of town several times. 

Also, I can't see Minx preferring a starlett daughter-in-law. But who knows? I do think that Sophia and Lionel could have had AMAZING chemistry if they had ever really let it go. But I always felt like the actors held back. 

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1 hour ago, Marissa Gallant said:

Yes. They did. When Sophia first came back, Laiken confronted her and told her to get out of town several times. 

Ok, now I'll know it, because I definitely missed it. The first 200 episodes of SB weren't shown on Russian TV, and I watched 1984 on the Internet partly. 

Our "Santa Barbara" began with a trump card - the investigation of Channing's murder. I started watching, being sure that this detective film would end soon.  Well, the format of the "soap opera" turned out to be a big surprise.

The very first season seems to me quite soapy, especially in acting, so my TOP seasons are:

1) The season 1986. Acting became more natural, the quality of the script was still high, Sophia and CC were one of the main couples, although, to my taste, their reconciliation was blurry (perhaps someday we will discuss what it should have been)

2) The first half of 1990.  I returned to watching after a 1.5-year break because Sophia finally got her own storyline, acting was outstanding, directing and cinematography were amazing, new screenwriters by inertia wrote well and wittily. It was SB's swan song, after the triumphal Emmy Award ceremony it flew down towards the inevitable end.

3) The beginning of 1987 as a continuation of season 1986, until the wedding of CC&S

4) The end of 1988 up to the Train New Year Eve. It was a absolutely romantic period for CC&S. Jed and Judith played themselves (I mean their friendship in real life helped them to act naturally in the romantic scenes)

5) The season 1985. I'm putting it lower because of Jed's absence. But Sophia was at the centre of the plot; there was high-quality writing, including dialogues; and of course there were Mary and Mason (my second favorite storyline).

If Jed hadn't come to SB, I think Sophia and Lionel would have been together, or at least they would have had a real romance. I believed in their love in the Fire story. 

What do you think happened between them on the yacht in 1986 (when Lionel took Sophia away after CC kicked her out of the house)?

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2 hours ago, Marissa Gallant said:

I really believe this too. They really had Jade talking the talk at the beginning. But once they brought Amy on, Jade grew up a little and the two were really great to watch.

What was so great about the original Perkins family is that they all looked enough like each other that one could buy them as relatives. Marisa was an underrated soap matriarch.

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