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I loved Mason, Julia, Gina and Keith. I also really liked Lionel and Augusta, but their storyline lost some steam, and then Louise Sorel left. Kelly I mostly liked. I was hit or miss with CC and Sophia. CC was a nasty a--hole, and Sophia wasn't the most sympathetic character, but they did well together. My biggest problem was that I wasn't a Cruz & Eden fan, which became especially problematic around '87 or so - they were written into every storyline so you couldn't escape them. I wish the show had played up (and not killed off so many) and given more depth to secondary characters like Brick, Amy, Ted, Laken, Warren, Hayley, Jane, Pearl, and even Christy. It would have balanced things out some and added some heft to the show. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but I just don't recall a show relying so much on so few characters.

There is, it's called the Bold and the Beautiful. I remember watching SB and thinking it felt like a half-hour show, it revolved SO much around the Capwells under Jill Farren Phelps. I was stunned when I switched to GL (and to a lesser extent, GH) in the early 1990s and realized it was not only possible to write for more than a handful of characters, but also keep them all interesting and interconnected. I don't think Cruz & Eden were written into every storyline, the problem for me (since 1988, it wasn't that bad with the Dobsons) was that they were often in their own world, on their own adventures, cut off from the rest of the show. And yet, everyone and their cousin would drop everything when it came to Cruz & Eden. I loved Cruz and A Martinez, and while I wasn't Eden's biggest fan, I appreciated Marcy Walker's intelligence with the role and her character's relationships with her family & friends. But even then, their dominance worked on my nerves big time and ultimately hurt the show IMNSHO.

And yes, they did away with too many 'secondary' but significant characters in 1987-88. One minute you had Santana, Brick, Amy, Ted, Laken, Warren, Hayley, Pearl--all of whom had forged interesting relationships with the 'primary' characters over the years. By 1988 (in Ted's case, by 1989), they were all gone. (Laken briefly popped back in, as Susan Marie Snyder, but didn't last very long.) Their 'replacements,' the new characters, struggled to fit into SB and never really caught the viewers' imaginations. Scott Clark? Heather? Celeste & her sisters? TJ? Cain? Michael? Laura? Bunny?!

Outside of the Capwells and the Lockridges (I include the extended family here, like Julia and Gina), they really had a tough time creating characters who could hold their own with the two powerhouses (though the Lockridges were pretty much toothless by the end of 1987). I think Roscoe Born as Robert Barr was just about the only exception. Pamela should have, but I found Marj Dusay grating, even though she's considered an improvement over Shirley Anne Field (who didn't fit either, but I thought she was more convincing with the vulnerable/manipulative aspects of the character). I really, really, really liked Lenore Kasdorf as Caroline (now there was a leading lady in every sense of the word), but they killed her off as well in 1987 and it was only a matter of time before Lionel would leave too, as he was the only Lockridge left in town.

Even though it was critically slammed in the early years, I'm most fond of SB from'84 to '87 or so. I kept watching through '89, until Robin Wright, Lane Davies, and Todd McKee had all left, and the Lockridges were pretty much decimated. I know they reintroduced the Lockridges, so to speak, later on, but by then I just couldn't get back into it.

Yeah, I too checked out in 1989, though I kept an eye on Nancy Lee Grahn and watched every now and then. 'It wasn't the same any more,' though it hadn't been that way in a while. Towards the end of 1988/early 1989, I actually took a break (and didn't catch up with the eps. I'd missed until years later), I was just so fed up, not even Mason & Julia could keep me watching. SB had great script writers, but once the Dobsons left, I had a hard time following most of the storylines. When they weren't meandering or boring, they were downright offensive to me (I don't care how 'ground-breaking' they were with Eden's rape, they lost me the moment her ob gyn turned out to be her rapist). They had standout eps. from time to time, but I can hardly remember what took place in 1988-89, most of the storylines just didn't register.

I was also very disappointed with some of the payoffs to their key storylines. I've always enjoyed Mason and Eden's complicated sibling relationship, and thought Mason marrying Victoria to protect Eden one of the best storylines SB had going for them in 1987. And yet when it all came out mid-1988 (b/c Chip needed a bone marrow transplant from Cruz), Mason and Eden shared no scene whatsoever. No revisiting why he did what he did, no discussion of the role their father played in all that or the repercussions it had on his relationship with Julia. Surely it warranted a scene or two. Or how about the resolutions to his schizophrenia. I thought they were going somewhere when they set up a session btw Mason and Heather (whom I appreciated in her capacity as a doctor) after his illness, but nope, we never saw what transpired at the meeting, what they talked about, all we saw was Mason leaving her office. Months of emotional hell and torment, for him, for Julia, for his family, for me, and we can't even have some introspection? My god, SB/JFP could be infuriating.

Edited by scherra
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2/6/87 promo I hadn't seen before. It tells you something about Lenore Kasdorf's appeal that they had her in this ad mentioning GL (I know this was a campaign at the time, but still, the other people in this were big names on their soaps, RSW, Genie Francis, etc.). It's too bad her stay at SB was so short-lived.

The ad is at 3 minutes in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sz_ITq76CI

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Good Heavens! PROMOS! My GOD! I have to visit this thread more often.

Here's a scene that captures everything that made Santa Barbara special and set it apart and yet probably seemed so small to the actors when they filmed it. But everything the characters say is so true it just brought me to tears after not having seen it in years. THIS, my friends, is why a Santa Barbara fan will never truly fall in love with another soap.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31o11RMb1nY

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So you hadn't seen the promos before? I'm glad. I always think you've seen everything SB related.

oldtimesuds has a few more. I can't embed though.

That's a great scene. You don't get that with men and women on soaps now. It would make our heads hurt. They aren't having sex and they don't want to have sex with each other.

Was this after Lane Davies?

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And sadly, Carl, I was commenting on how this thread has deteriorated to posters popping in to post a rare promo. Lenore Kasdorf was ok, but she wasn't Louise Sorel nor was she meant to be. She wasn't going to work long term. Neither was Jane. Or Alice. Or any random character that was in and out of what was once the Lockridge house during that period. So who cares that she came from Guiding Light to Santa Barbara?

A Guiding Light fan. That's who. ;)

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Well the Dobsons seemed pretty fond of her too. :)

One of the reasons I haven't put a lot of articles in lately is I wasn't sure if you were going to be able to read them, as you haven't been on much lately. If there's anyone you're interested in then I will find something or try.

I keep meaning to watch more episodes but there's so much soap stuff I mean to watch, right now I'm stuck on the A's (ATWT and Another Life).

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The Dobsons worked with her on GL. She and Harley Jane Kozak, who SHOULD have survived or been brought back. I LOVED the bond Eden and Mary formed when they were stuck with Kirk and Mark and I LOVED the Julia/Mary relationship and Mason/Mary. She worked so well with everyone it just sucked to see her get killed off when the character was getting some gumption just to depress poor Mason.

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Harley was at GL a few years after the Dobsons had left.

I remember a clip where Mason had flashbacks of Mary which reminded him of his current flame, Victoria. I thought it was very forced, as they didn't seem that similar to me.

Harley Jane Kozak had such screen presence and a certain charm and slightly devilish quality that enlivened heroine roles. I think that's why she ended up getting some decent roles in some of the most popular comedies of the late '80s and early '90s.

I already asked this, I think, but anyway, I read that NLG was going to leave Santa Barbara as it hadn't been canceled, as she wasn't thrilled with her airtime or the haunted house story. Do you think she was right?

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