ALL: The Brits attack AMERICAN SOAPS!

[MatinèeGirl]

I live in The Netherlands and I watch one US Soap (ATWT) and one UK soap (EastEnders).Personally I don't see the point of comparing them they're both have their weak and their strong points.I wouldn't say EastEnders was more realistic when it comes to storylines maybe it's more realistic when it comes to the way the characters look but that doesn't make it a better show when the storylines are crap.

I'm actually very sad that they took Mary-Beth Evans as an example.I loved her as Sierra in ATWT and I'm sure me and everyone else here could have picked a dozen other actresses.I know a few actresses from EE who are much worse then Mary-Beth Evans (I'm not saying she's bad but you know what I mean) I didn't watch the video so I don't know if they compared any actors but for every bad US soap actor there is one from the UK as well.

We only get a few US soaps here and a few were cancelled in the past not because the ones that still air here are better but because of the time they are aired.The best time to air a soap in The Netherlands is between 6pm and 8pm only soaps (no matter in what country they were produced) that aired between those hours survived.B&B,ATWT and DOOL are the lucky ones and GH,AMC and Y&R were less fortunate.EE was aired here at well during the late 1980s it started at 6PM but after a few months it got programmed at 3PM and after that the ratings dropped and it got cancelled.

B&B is sort of dead at the moment if you look at the ratings here.It's gonna switch channels after the new year and the old channel moved it to drop the ratings and it did work.I don't watch B&B but I heard from fans that they didn't stop watching because the show got worse but because they couldn't watch it when it was aired simply because they were at work/school then.

I don't know when US soaps were aired in the UK but I'm sure their succes/faillure over there has everything to do with the times they were on.At a lot of EE forums US are being discussed and mostly in a very positive way so it aren't the viewers who don't like US soaps but the critics but if it's any comfort most of them don't like UK soaps either.

[All My Shadows]

So I've been poking around YouTube looking for clips of non-US soaps (see, I don't hate them all. Just EE), and I came across some more videos in line with the original one that MarlandRulez posted. Let's play a game of "Spot the Bias!"

Serial Culture, Part I: Openers

This one examines two US soap openings and two UK soap openings: B&B and ATWT versus EE and Corrie. Of course, DAYS's opening is very similar to that of EE and Corrie in that it's had only minor changes since the very beginning. But, alas, we must make EE and Corrie look like masterpieces, therefore we showcase the openings of B&B and ATWT. I'll give him ATWT, sure, but B&B's opening is overly glamorous and fashionista for a reason. The show is set in the fricken fashion industry! You ain't gonna see no rotating rivers or crossfading exteriors there.

Serial Culture, Part II: Aftermath of Coming Out

This one takes scenes dealing with gay characters in soaps. The "Coronation Street" scene shows two characters, one is the mother of a gay son and the other is a homophobic neighbor, battling it out in the middle of the street. The other is from "As the World Turns" and features a gay teenaged guy coming out to his parents. The Corrie scene is called "realistic" and "reality-based."

Serial Culture, Part III: Violence

The US clip is from B&B. 'Nuff said. I don't blame them at all.

Serial Culture, Part IV: Teen Storylines

Which brings me to why I'm posting all this in the first place. The English clip shows a teenaged girl who is pregnant. The US clip shows teenagers being confronted by a serial killer in the woods. Of course, why post a clip that would equally contend with the English one? If I'm not mistaken, one of those very teens running from a serial killer was pregnant herself not too long ago. Of course, showing something like that would mean that the person who commented on this video wouldn't be able to look down on American soaps and claim that they haven't covered teen pregnancy and abortion. Sweetheart, we've covered teen pregnancy so much that a lot of us are TIRED of it.

Please forgive me for bringing this all up again, I just had to share.

[DruRocks]

See, there's is too primetime to me. I like my soapy look better. But I must admit that B&B scene wasn't particularly impressive. I loved the scene on Y&R where the crazy Veronica shot Joshua, and then Nikki. THAT was good. I remember watching when Nikki got shot and thinking she was really dead. Loved it.

[Ben]

Well, I was kidding. And I was referring to UK, and not US, where the show was/is popular.

This is exactly how SuBe fans feel, especially when American's (because there are a lot that do) trash the show. Sunset Beach was in no way ever viewed as a sitcom, and that kinda supports the fact that American's just didn't get it. Not sure if you know this or not, but when SuBe's last episode aired, Five issued a helpline number for grieving fans - that's how big the show was over here. It was the show that got talked about in the school yard, at work, etc.

SuBe's popularity is totally different to the likes of Footballers' Wives. Two different shows that generated two different reasons for watching.

All My Shadows: ITA on everything you said about those "Serial Culture" clips. That kind of bias gives us a bad name IMO. I especially dislike the "Aftermath of coming out" because, surely both shows warrant being deemed as realistic and reality based?

I much preferred ATWT's story than Corrie's, simply because the characters were written better. Corrie's storyline was based on one person's experience, which portrayed Karl - the gay guy who "snared" confused Todd - as being manipulative, selfish and a guy with zero morals. He was determined to break-up Todd's relationship with Sarah, knowing that she was expecting his baby. It was difficult to empathize with Karl.

[AntiNWO]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME, bellcurve!? Y&R is CBS Daytime's prized possession. Their executives gush over the show all the time, always have, always will. Moonves, Tellem, Bloom LOVE Y&R. If there's one soap to air during primetime (6pm to midnight), it's Y&R.

B&B hasn't been stellar in about 4 yrs, so why would any program director pick Bradley Bell's crap over LM Latham's very watchable Y&R?

1. Y&R gets far more viewers during daytime than B&B; keep in mind that at least 30% of CBS affiliates air Y&R at 11/11:30 IN THE MORNING!

2. Y&R has always been far more critically acclaimed than B&B (stellar cast, reviews, awards nominations/wins etc). The worst of Y&R is better than the best of B&B.

3. B&B airing before the CBS primetime lineup wouldn't be an added bonus. If Y&R can easily get 6.4 million viewers during daytime (August 2006), they can certainly attact at least 7 million during (pre) primetime.

It's evident that the best choice is NOT B&B, it's Y&R. If B&B had significantly more viewers than Y&R, then I would day B&B should air during primetime

[All My Shadows]

B&B is also the most popular soap in the entire world, mainly due to it's durable, 30-minute format. It'd go hand in hand with a 6pm newscast. Y&R would mean affiliates losing newscasts at 6pm.

[Greenlee Smythe]

Here is the real reason why some UK fans don't like American soaps. The UK soaps is about ordinary people. It's not about the glamourous life. It's about everyday working people. Not the lifestyles of the rich and famous. The people featured on the UK soaps are not models. They are plain looking people. Some are pretty and some are just average.

American soaps are all about looks and a lot of the soap stars are models or they could be models. They are skinny. UK soap stars are of average weight or overweight.

Also, the UK soaps focus on real everyday problems. Not this CEO of a Fortune 500 company that a lot of the US soaps seem to be focused on.

Almost every soap on the air in the US has CEO's of Fortune 500 companies represented on their soaps. How many of us on this board right now hang out with rich CEO's of Fortune 500 companies?

The bottom line is that UK soaps are more realistic than American soaps.

[jfung79]

Indeed Greenlee. I love EastEnders more than any US soap because of the relatability of the characters -- having normal jobs, having normal houses, having trouble finding work, having to go to interviews, having their dreams blow up and then have new hope.

There's none of this "Ava, you're hot, so here's an executive position in Spaulding even though you didn't go to college and have no qualfiications" ridiculousness which one sees even in relatively good US soaps like GL.

It's not always depressing. Just take a look at the comedy from a charismatic character like Alfie Moon (who I was able to see briefly on BBC America before they took off EE on that channel). I don't think EE is depressing, I think it shows the highs and lows of ordinary people.

And actually, no, to All My Shadows I think who said this, ATWT is not like EastEnders right now. The problem with ATWT is not that primarily it's depressing -- the problem is that there is no balance in the airtime, the veterans are ignored, the dialogue is repetitive, the characters change on a whim, and there is even a sci-fi storyline with Paul having pyschic powers. Also, the characters are all wealthy. So, no, that's not much like EastEnders at all. I *wish* the problem with ATWT was that it was too "realistic" and therefore supposedly boring.

There is also a core of longtime characters on EE (such as the Mitchells, Dot, Pat, and Ian Beale) despite some cast turnover among other characters. There are probably more vets on EE than on most American soaps, even though there is a lot of cast turnover that injects fresh blood and new families too. I am watching 5 years behind on PBS right now, so I don't know if there are more recent cast firings, but I believe the characters I named are still around. (Don't tell me if they aren.t)

Best of all, the scenes and dialogue of EE zoom in on why people do the things they do, and on the intricacies of their relationships with family and friends and lovers, rather than on body fantasy.

Eileen Fulton is a huge EastEnders fan because she said it's like what ATWT was when she started, and because it has real stories for its older female characters.

I have no idea what you're saying about EastEnders partnering up with Doctor Who, Drew. If you're referring to Peggy's 30-second cameo in Army of Ghosts, that was Doctor Who taking from EastEnders for a brief bit of fun. It wasn't EastEnders trying to get publicity. Also if you're referring to Dimensions in Time, that was a charity sketch to raise money for Children in Need.

As for the primetime vs daytime issue, I think it's a testament to how well the UK soap makers have mastered the art, that the genre is respected enough in the UK to be put in primetime 4 or 5 days a week. So it's not an unfair comparison. UK soap ratings aren't just high in comparison to US soap ratings -- they are high in comparsion to other UK primetime programs too. EastEnders and Coronation Street are the highest-rated programs in Britain. Does anyone really think that if B&B was put in primetime 4 days a week, it would reach CSI levels????

The only criticism of EE I will agree with is that there's a bit too much gangland stuff (but that's on US soaps too, and at least with EE the mob stuff is rooted in the historic image of the East End).

EastEnders -- 100% gripping. I feel bad when I miss an episode. It's been must-see for me since I started in 1991. Even when the show is "struggling", it's great.

Most US soap output in the last 10 years -- blah.

Now, as for the documentary, maybe it's unfair, but the thread has become a bit of an anti-UK soap thread, rather than really talking about the documentary anymore, so I'm responding to the anti-UK soap comments.

[CSW]

I think he's right but the missed point is that American soaps who try to be realistic get panned by the viewers. He missed the point about afternoon escapism. But he's right, daytime treats its audience like 2 year olds but so does most of primetime (think CSI: Miami).

But I must admit that Lewis Black is my hero.

[kjazz]

There you go. With American soaps you have Fortune 500 companies centered in little American small towns like Genoa City, Port Charles, and Salem. You wouldn't see this with a British soap opera.

British soap operas may not be everyone's cup of tea but their ability to stay centered in everyday reality is somewhat refreshing.

The United States is engaged in two wars overseas right now in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet with these American soap operas you wouldn't be able to know the difference. And let us not get started on the poorly handled storyline a few years ago when DOOL had a Iraq storylike that was too horrendous to believe.

It isn't that others slam Americans soaps for not being real for every day Americans anymore.Americans ,themselves, feel the same way. Heck the numbers prove that. But one doesn't have to use Passions to show how bad American soaps are. On the number one soap in America, Y&R, you have a grown man having conversations with the ghost of his dead dad (Jack and John). You have two men talking to a woman in a jail cell just outside of town who looks like a woman they know and talk to everyday (The Paul Phyllis/Shelia Michael Lauren storyline). If Y&R can show this what is stopping the other soaps from doing the same?

There isn't anything more exciting and unpredictable as real life. American soap operas should look into it and try it sometime.

[DruRocks]

I'll still take my American soaps any day.

[DruRocks]

Six Feet Under.

[Manny]

UK soaps are boring.. US soaps are much more fun!

In Croatia, SuBe was also a huge hit! Also in Croatia's neighbor countries Bosnia & Slowenia.

Here, people like to see lives of rich, beautiful people. They love to watch scandals, intrigues etc that US soaps bring.

But, what people in Croatia DON'T like (and this is why we don't have any US shows right now) is CONTINUING DRAMA... they don't like the fact that soaps go on for years. That is why only Santa Barbara aired in full run here (even though by the end of the run, their ratings were down the tubes). (SuBe wasn't aired completely, even though it was HUGE, because of some dispute between Croatian TV and NBC).

PASS was HUGE in Croatia too, but only for the first too years... then the ratings went down the tube. This was due to many factors (hell in the closet storyline, slow pace AND the no ending part).

People here want to watch soaps that have an ending. That's the main reason why we don't have US (or UK) soaps here.

When I tell someone in Croatia that PASS are still being shot, they are shocked beyond belief. And then I mention DAYS or AMC or GL and they wonder why someone would watch the same show every day for 40+ years. That is unimaginable here.

That's why our daytime is filled with stupid Latin telenovelas...

[All My Shadows]

Exactly. WHY would someone want to watch a show just to see something that they could watch 24 hours a day on cable news networks?

I think something that a lotta people forget is that the soap opera was originated here, in the US, and I don't see why our soaps should do what the UK soaps are doing. Our type of soap opera has been around for nearly 80 years and if it's been able to last that long, I don't see the need to convert to another way of presenting soap opera. We have what we have and it's different from what the UK has, and for the most part, we enjoy it. Foreign soaps haven't been popular here because they are not what we are used to, they're not what we grew up with. If I had a choice between an episode of "Coronation Street" from it's heyday, with characters that I only know vaguely and storylines that I have no clue about, and an "All My Children" episode from one of its slower periods, with characters that I've heard of, read about a lot, and storylines that I pretty much know all about, I'd choose the AMC episode. It's something that I'm familiar with, therefore I'd almost always prefer it.

[JamesF]

At the risk of pressing the issue, the soaps weren't that different until 25 years ago. Our soaps now bear much closer resemblance to the traditional US soaps than they do.

Also, I don't get the watching-daytime-to-block-out-the-world-therefore-they-can-throw-any-old-[!@#$%^&*]-at-you routine. People are willing to watch escapism in primetime (DH, Grey's, OC to name a few) that still has some semblance of continuity, realism and logic. So why's it okay for daytime to pass lazy writing off as escapism?