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EricMontreal22

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Posts posted by EricMontreal22

  1. As a teen I loved the return of Janet (and all her mirror talks) but that's a good point--I don't think they did ever explain why she was given the experimental surgery (and it's not like people would follow her later to see how the surgery worked out...)  But Jane Cox was great, and Harold figuring it out lol

  2. 59 minutes ago, beebs said:

    That explains why I never saw it. Our cable back then was MacLean-Hunter and we didn't get Bravo/Showcase/Etc. until about 1995? I'll keep my eyes peeled if any more content comes out. I feel like Ann Marcus was, beyond her disastrous DAYS run, considered a pretty solid writer.

    Yeah this would probably been just before 1995?  Right when the station premiered.

    Oh I have a lot of respect for Marcus (I don't really know about her DAYS except what she says in her interview--I'll investigate

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    ).  For the msot part she seemed to understand how shows worked, and I think also it's impressive that she could handle "legit" soap as well as parodies like Mary Hartman Mary Hartman (it must have been kinda annoying that Norman Lear always got all the credit for that...)

  3. Those shirts!!    I mean and that seems to be a coffee place?  LOL  Love the end credit music

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    Also--interesting they credit Art Wallace--the creator and first HW of Dark Shadows--as a creative consultant.  I know his wife wrote scripts around this time...  Still, kinda random.  Agnes Nixon seems to have had admiration for DS.  She never has said so specifically but she picked Gordon Russell for One Life to Live based on his only previous daytime work DS (and he came with Sam Hall).  And a few times she has said how Dan Curtis had the right Idea to save the tapes of his soap from the start.

  4. 1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

    Thanks. I'd never heard of this show. 

    (By Bravo I mean the Canadian Bravo which isn't connected to Bravo US).  I remember really liking it--I think at that age anyway it connected to me more than Mary Hartman.  It was outrageous but more grounded in a discernible reality (as I think Ann says in that clip).  I swear I taped some episodes but would have to go through my storage.

  5. 17 hours ago, dc11786 said:

     

    Thanks. In that context, Tess moving to the City makes sense. I just get so bogged down by her clunky backstory with Dante, Curtis, Buck, and Kuwait. Nixon made the best of the situation and fleshed out a more complicated backstory for Tess to rationalize her decision to enter into a violent marriage. In what I've seen, a lot of that complexity doesn't come across in later material once Nixon leaves. 

     

    In defense of Brown and Essensten, I do think they helped to rectify one of the problems I had with "Loving." "Loving" had a tendency to be too light at times. There was definitely a maturity to the material I watched in those summer 1995 episodes. It just was just so jarring in context of the amplified snark over some rather gritty matters. 

     

    The possible culture clash between the suburbanite Corinthians and the urban New Yorkers would have given the show something more to play in those early episodes that didn't come across. 

     

     

    I think it would have been for the best to write out Steffi earlier like you suggested. 

     

    "The City" might have worked if they had done it a year and a half earlier in mid-1994 when Michael Weatherly, Amelia Heinle, Paul Anthony Stewart, and Laura Sisk Wright were still all present and had around a year left to their contracts. That younger group worked. I don't hate what I've seen of Corey Page's Richard in the later material from "The City" though I found the character incredibly crass and obnoxious on "Loving." Amy Van Horne seemed like a solid junior vixen, but a lot of the other younger actors were still developing their characters. 

     

     

    Jill Farren Phelps was hired to revamp "Another World" around the same time and was doing a lot of primetime influenced things. There was the introduction of a new hospital set, police station, and Italian restaurant which were suppose to be the hub of stories. Then, you had a bunch of older contract players written out, the brutal of a young mother, and a stronger emphasis on younger characters. I do think that "The City" went farther, but I think both were looking to accomplish similar goals. 

     

    For the most part, I was referring to the first year or so of the show. I've seen a lot less of that then "Loving." I will agree that the end is an improvement and is closer to reaching those goals. In watching some later episodes recently, I still feel the show slips into the problems I talked about though. I think the episodes with the fake Quartermaines are fun, and the confrontation between Carla and Tracey is well played. In my recent reviewing of these episodes, I find something still seems off. The relationship between Carla and Tracey is intriguing, but it's still harsh and brittle in the context there is nothing to contrast it in those episodes. Everyone working to cover up for Tracey does build into that family element, but everything is based on a con job. I think playing up the fact that they have to lie to Dillon about his grandparents leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

     

    I do think there was an attempt to make the more salacious elements less tasteless, while still crossing the line. Didn't Gino die in bed with a prostitute who he thought was Tracey? That seems to be an attempt to integrate something flashy into a bigger story where that event is not the sole climax of the story. 

     

    I also watched the last few episodes recently. Who were people rooting for at the end in terms of the quad with Carla, Danny, Tony, and Ally? Carla is fun, but I still find Danny sleazy. Tony has mellowed, but I don't necessarily find him some big catch. I also don't get a strong connection between Laura Sisk and George Palermo which is what the show sees as the "it" couple. 

     

    I thought the final story with the arrival of baby Cassandra was sort of sloppy. I imagine the plans may have accelerated to accommodate the conclusion, but the psychic stuff with Lorraine seemed less intriguing to me than watching Lorraine and Nick's relationship a few months earlier after Nick had been released from the hospital. 

     

    It's nice to think that, if given more time, Essensten and Brown would have gotten it together, but they were given two years with the same producer, which hadn't happened on "Loving" since Doug Marland and Joseph Stuart. 

     

    Well they were given a year and five months--not two years 

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    . Sure, you could say two years if you count their time on Loving--yes, with the same EP, but writing for that show was such a completely different *thing* (and of course was focused around one major storyline--I will say ABC's "suggestion" that they open The City with a similar serial killer storyline was bad on every level)  I dunno, maybe I am being too generous, but with all the growing pains of the show (the camera work for the first few months was hard to take) etc, I think they deserved at least two full years.  And again, I do think that from the point Tracy came on, it's compelling, good, stuff.  At the time I thought it was the best thing ABC had on the air (granted 97 was when their other soaps were having troubles...) 

    I do know that B/E said the Cassandra storyline was one they felt they had to finish before the show ended and so drastically rewrote to bring it to a quick conclusion.  Not sure about any other storylines...

  6. Did anyone watch creator Ann Marcus' followup to Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman, the late night soap parody from 1980, The Life and Times of Eddie Roberts (L.A.T.E.R.)? Bravo briefly reran it as part of their TV Too Good for TV block in the early 90s (which also, if I recall, is where I first got to see Mary Hartman--they also showed Soap and Twin Peaks and... Cop Rock LOL). I'd love to see full episodes again but can only find this:
     

     

     

  7. 1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

     Wow! It has been so so difficult to find any of that era. Even my vague dislike of John O'Hurley won't keep me away. Thank you,

    Watch this space...

    2 hours ago, j swift said:

     

    Not to go too far into the weeds on the AW analogy, but the Bayview Courts apartments on Another World was another attempt at trying to tie twentysomething characters together based on living in a communal space rather than within a family unit (very Melrose Place).

     

    However, even in the 90's, it would have been rare for a rich woman like Sydney Chase to live in the same building as an editor's assistant like Ally.  And I don't know many municipal building officials would allow a permit for a new drop-in clinic to be next door to a dive bar.  In retrospect, perhaps the writers of The City thought too small by having everyone live within feet of each other rather than using the entirety of Greenwich Village, or the borough of Manhattan, as a backdrop?  

    Aww thanks--that does make sense.

    You're right (although Sydney did own the building and had the penthouse, but...)  It made more sense with Tracy given her life situation.  But, while I defend the last half of the City, I completely agree that it might have worked better to pull from a small neighbourhood (maybe fictional) in NY instead of one building 

    As FrenchBug says that's always a problem when you set a soap in an actual big city (and even small town soaps suffer from this when they started to have every conceivable thing in their town including several massive businesses).  The UK soaps do make it work by creating fictional communities within a big city, although even there you do start to wonder why they all seem to live, work and have fun on the same four streets...

  8. 2 minutes ago, Lust4Life76 said:

    I just checked the video/chat and yes, it was you Eric...

    Thank you for answering, and sorry, I didn't catch that it was your name associated the first time I read the post...

    If you would be willing to share, I'd be very grateful...I was interested in Agnes' bible for "All My Children" and her early story projections. I was also interested in, if you have "a" full script sample, either for radio or "All My Children".

    Thank you again, for any assistance you give...

    Erik

     

    Send me a PM

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  9. 1 minute ago, Lust4Life76 said:
    I was told by a fellow viewer that if I wanted to see Agnes' work I could find it at the Northwestern College archives. I was curious, does anyone know how to access the online archives for Northwestern to look at Agnes' work? I am on the site, but all I am finding is the ability to request files that I would have to view in person when visiting the library. Is there anything just scanned in?
    Thanks for any help,
    Erik

    Was that me?  I told someone that they could read the AMC bible at the NorthWestern archives.  I was able to go there as research for my MA essay and actually have scanned a lot of stuff I can share.  However, I have to warn you, there is remarkably little about OLTL compared to AMC and even Loving and her pre OLTL soap work. 

    But no--nothing is scanned in.  I had to scan what I did myself, and that was a bit of an iffy thing in and of itself (I went twice, one time the person was fine with me scanning all I wanted, the other time I was being watched VERY closely)

  10. I was glad Erika was able to make an appearance as some of her comments were the most interesting (and wow, someone involved in the show actually mentioned Gordon Russell and has some sense of when Nixon was actually still writing for the show--I'm impressed).  Everyone seems to remember Agnes whole heartedly approving of the 90s Vicki DID storyline except for that one interview with Agnes herself which she seemed aghast that she would have ever approved of that (in hindsight I think she was confused by the way the question was asked of her, actually). 

  11. 7 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

    Wasn't it Lorraine Broderick that made Taylor into the obsessed stalker?

    The recast happened before then, but yeah, one of Broderick's misfires was new Taylor and the whole Jamaica storyline with her hunting them all over the island (and voodoo).  I have it on authority from one of the writers I interviewed that that outlandish storyline was partly pushed on the show by ABC who wee concerned about the sudden rise of DAYS with its crazy stories--and that they were "allowed" to tell stories like the over a year long Michael Delaney/Kevin Sheffield "gay" stuff as a deal if they balanced it out with increasingly over the top storylines.  (The other Broderick story I hated was Tanner--everything about Tanner including drunk Hayley thinking she slept with him). 

    38 minutes ago, cassistan said:

    I enjoyed it! I have some grips though.........

    Exactly how I feel.  I really appreciate that Locher does these, but they're always frustrating (partly because, as he has admitted, he never even watched any of the Nixon soaps so he often gets details wrong, or repeats stories that all of the fans know already but he acts like it's new info

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    ).  I didn't expect any depth, though I did repeatedly ask him to ask Debbi (and Darnell) about Nixon persuading her to join Loving and her time there.  So we didn't really get anything new, but I wasn't expecting much (and it was nice to hear Burnett tell her story herself, though of course I had heard that story 100x lol) 

  12. On 3/28/2021 at 4:57 PM, FrenchBug82 said:

    The character of Anton never quite worked but there was something about this guy that got my hormones flowing.

    For all the talk of AMC being in decline by that stage of McTavish's 92-95 tenure, I thought the storylines from that episode were all good - from fine (Not a fan of Julia but whatever) to outstanding (Janet return, Erica vs Kendall)

    I had the same reaction to Anton (the actor of course later played Dracula opposite SMG's Buffy on an episode of Buffy).

    I dunno--I think people like looking at McTavish's run as the start of the slow decline of AMC.  Perhaps, but her first two years were mostly great .  It was only at the end that you understand why FMB wanted her out.  Yes her show was quite dark (though still had classic AMC comedy) but I'll stand by it.

  13. On 3/27/2021 at 9:39 AM, dc11786 said:

    "The City" wasn't unique in the sense that NBC was basically trying the same experiment with similar results with "Another World." The writing wasn't there, which was the problem with "Loving." From what I've seen of "The City," the characters are thinly conceived at best and harsh and unlikeable at worst. Like "Loving," the show had some good cast members, but the storytelling and the characterization were inconsistent. I think Harmon Brown and Essensten did attempt some interesting issues (homeless youth, incest, marital rape, transgender characters, racial tension), but the stories were underdeveloped and then quickly dropped.

     

    Was Another World trying the same thing?  I... don't see that but I'd love to hear what you mean.

    Your description of The City isn't wrong, but it makes me think you've only watched the first six months or a bit more.  As I've said before, I think it really came into its own in its final six months or so and (rather quickly all things considered) understood and improved from a lot of its early problems (including short term "shock" stories like how they handled the racial and trans storylines).  There was a much stronger sense of a found family and genuine affection.  And of course having Tracy on the show helped immeasurably (I don't think I've ever liked her character more).

  14. On 9/15/2020 at 3:13 PM, Soaplovers said:

    the 1st 2 episodes of Loving didn't have Marland's trademark stilted dialogue.  It actually flowed and there was some energy on the show as well.

     

    I wonder if Nixon had a hand in micro managing the scripts and that's why it didn't have Marland's usual flaws in his day to day episodes?

    She absolutely did during that early period.  Patrick Mulcahey said in one interview that he left the Loving writing team after a year (I believe) because every script he'd get would have tons of notes, not from Marland but from Nixon (and I've seen scripts of other shows with her notes--like early AMC scripts--she is very clear).  He noted that that's a valid approach, but not one he can work under.

    On 9/11/2020 at 5:33 PM, DRW50 said:

    @victoria foxton @dc11786 @Elsa @SFK @Vee @DeliaIrisFan @Paul Raven @slick jones (sorry to anyone I didn't get) Not sure if these have already been around but someone has uploaded the first two episodes...and holy hell, the first episode has a lengthy introduction by Dorothy Lyman! I had never heard about that.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3jUaUwwBf1UGEswAYEjJJQ

    My friend who posted them said he only recently got them transferred digitally.  Sadly, this is all he has (for now).

    The Dorothy Lyman intro BTW actually aired AFTER the Loving movie the night before--not as an introduction to the daytime premier. 

    On 9/13/2020 at 6:46 PM, dc11786 said:

    As @EricMontreal22 mentioned, the characters were all in Agnes Nixon's original bible for the show. It is clear which characters Marland was more interested in writing. The Donovans are much more intricate and their scenes are much richer than the scenes with the other characters.

     

     

     

    A great summation--I think you've studied the bible closer than I have and I was the one who scanned it!  LOL  Thanks for that.

    As for Lily's return in 1987.  Someone (Schemering?) pointed out what an awful return it was--and some of those episodes (a rather dull, non-descript era for the show) are online.  She basically became a bland, blonde, husband stealing, vixen with little nuance.

  15. The Carter Jones storyline on AMC (kidnapping Natalie on a houseboat) was inspired by Cape Fear I believe (I think the remake had recently been released)--that story was quite involved and may have been inspired by other works as well.  Was it Guiding Light that had a Psycho/Dressed to Kill cross dressing killer (I won't call them trans). 

    22 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

    So they turned AMC into Sex and the City and GH into The Sopranos.

     

    What did they try to turn OLTL into?

    Ha yes Frons would name drop SatC when mentioning Fusion and AMC.  Funny, he never applied a similar identity to poor/lucky OLTL.

    19 hours ago, Dylan said:

    I think UK viewers would. Their soaps are still about middle class regular people.

    In general working class, so even a bit lower than what I'd call middle class.  It's funny, in a country where class is such a big deal (although N Americans also suffer from this, we just like to pretend otherwise) the UK soaps rarely take advantage of the conflicts between people of lower classes.  I remember hearing the producer of the long running BBC radio soap The Archers pointing out they're the only major UK soap that does do this.

    Has any soap ripped off Rebecca?  I mean AMC had elements of it with Helga before we knew that Angelique was actually alive.

  16. 3 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

    I think this might still be Rauch. At least the very end of his EP run. Doesn't feel like Gottlieb/Malone era OLTL.

    Remember there were a few months where Gottlieb had taken over by Craig Carlson (?) was still HW, and the transition at any rate didn't feel immediate.  (and of course the initial plan was to put some of the focus on short term story arcs--one involved that guy from Body Double as an abusive husband--though they quickly realized that went against the point of a soap.

     

  17. 3 hours ago, Khan said:

     

    Well, I know I wasn't the FIRST one to suggest this pairing, but I did agree that the two complimented each other; and I still think that to be the case.  (That is, if Douglas Marland was ever open to collaboration on that level, which I doubt, lol.)

     

     

    Ha, if he ever was open to it, surely his time at Loving changed all that...  (As the pre-Marland bible makes clear, as well as Nixon's notes during the first year, Agnes Nixon was extremely involved in the overall plotting and somehow I doubt that even if it had been a monster hit in its first year, Marland would have happily stuck around

    ). 

  18. 12 minutes ago, Vee said:

     

    I don't know how anyone can watch some of that '86 stuff with Holden and Lily, the stables, the horses and the storm and not know this is a gay man enraptured with one of several very specific types of men and ingenues he revisited again and again.

    Oh undeniably.  Certainly it's a different vibe than say when Bill Bell would write his scenes for studs...

  19. 1 hour ago, Vee said:

    (And Doug Cummings, played by his longtme favorite JWS, is basically a deranged theater queen) If you go by the scuttlebutt you can project that Marland was infatuated with the men and embodied in many of the women, like Iva or Lily. But I suppose that's reductive stereotyping too.

    You make him sound like Tennessee Williams! 

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    I always thought the Doug Cummings story was based on The Fan (a terrible movie, but...)

  20. That's a trip with Phoebe visiting...  I remember Myrtle showing up to I think Dinah Lee's wedding (this was after hannah and her had stayed with Myrtle on AMC), but not Phoebe.  I love details like this that reinforce the shared universe (even if it's odd that Loving and later The City characters watch AMC...) especially since I can't imagine it was done in this case to try to bring over AMC viewers...

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