vetsoapfan

On 4/21/2024 at 5:20 AM, Sapounopera said:

Like most of todays's shows and films it felt... plastic to me. Nobody cares for atmosphere and artistic view, they just want to appeal to the Netflix crowd. Even Almodovar's three last films have a different vibe, because... platforms. 

ITA.

That's why, when it comes to film, TV series, books, music and soaps, I gravitate towards the classics; tried and true and satisfying entertainment from years gone by.

11 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

When I got into GL around 1990 or so I didn't even notice as much that there was such a lack of a core family compared to other soaps (like ATWT) because there were several dynamic characters or actors who helped keep the canvas vibrant. Unfortunately, when most of those actors filed out in the early '90s, it did expose how hollow the show's core was, especially Maureen's death, as Alex and Mindy had been so poorly written by the time Beverlee and Kimberley left that they weren't at their strongest anyway. Maureen still felt more central. That JFP did this solely because she assumed viewers wouldn't care otherwise if Maureen died says a lot about how she approached soaps.

If you joined TGL in 1990, then you were lucky to come in at a time after the worst of the destruction had already taken place. I honestly don't know how anyone survived watching the mid 1980s. The show rebounded more than I ever thought possible under Nancy Curlee's writing regime, and through some miracle, many in the audience had come to accept Maureen Bauer as the warm, benevolent matriarch the show desperately  needed. As a bonus, Reva was off-screen for years, so we didn't have to endure over-the-top, ham-in-a-can histrionics. The cast at the time was strong.

The resurgence did not last long, alas, and a few years later the quality of the writing was gone, some of the best actors were gone, TIIC killed off Maureen, dismembering the Bauers yet again, and show went back to circling the drain. Only this time, it never recovered, and limped along on life-support until finally being put out of its misery.

It should have been laid to rest before Peapack, honestly.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

That was more of a time of experimentation in film, I suppose - some of the films that were mainstream successes at that time would cause jaws to drop today (I was just rewatching They Shoot Horses, Don't They not long ago), but when I first heard of/saw the movie I was surprised. And so much of it has held up today, no matter how much we think we've progressed. 

I avoided the Ryan Murphy adaptation at all costs.

Out of morbid curiosity, I felt compelled to watch the newer, Ryan Murphy version...just to see how badly they might screw it up. (I find so many remakes to be pointless, poorly done and ultimately annoying.)

All of those adjectives describe RM's adaptation, IMHO. It was just...bland and inferior and lacked the raw power of the original.

Curiosity killed the cat, as they say.

4 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

@vetsoapfan

Season 1 release of the blu ray contains the pilot movie.

The movies were released on blu ray too but can't recall which season. I need to go back and check my collection.

Thanks. I am now tempted to keep an eye out for reasonably-priced blu-rays of the show, after hemming and hawing about purchasing the Lion's Gate releases or not.

It remains in my Top 10 Favorite Series list, even after all this time.

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

This helps explain just why his performance of the bi guy who left his wife for another man in Boys in the Band felt so real. That's still the main place I know him from - wonderful work. He, Keith Prentice and Peter White were so enthralling to watch.

Reading a bit about it on DL it reads as if he might blame his brief flings with men on being groomed when he was a teenager, so I guess he may not see himself as bi anyway. 

Also seems to be some revelations about more tense moments with Lucille Ball...sadly, that's not a surprise.

I recently re-watched 1970's Boys in the Band, and realized how well-acted and written it really was. Soap actors for the win! (Keith Prentice from Dark Shadows, Peter White from AMC, Reuben Greene from AMC Robert La Tourneaux from The Doctors, Laurence Luckinbill from The Secret Storm).

I can only imagine the avalanche of hysteria that the film must have engendered among hyperventilating, pearl-clutching conservatives 50+ years ago.

2 hours ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

things deteriorated further when goutman took over and brought on hogan schefer. the [!@#$%^&*] really hit the fan in 2003, when barbra bloom took over at cbs daytime and start bringing on actors she worked with at abc. although, to be fair, the abcification began in 1997, when felicia mini behr took over from john valente and immediately replaced allyson rice taylor’s connor walsh with susan battan — possibly the worst recast ever!

UGH! The beginning of the end. The destruction Goutman and Sheffer heaped onto ATWT did not even surprise me very much, however, after seeing how other P&G soaps like TEON, AW and TEON has been crippled by painfully incompetent management and TPTB who just did not understand their shows or the soap medium in general.

Susan Battan was indeed a horrendous recast. But let's not forget Charity Rahmer (DAYS), LOL. Even our ATWT hired the inexplicably-cast Jason Kinkaid to play Tom Hughes back in 1984. What were they smoking???

4 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

@vetsoapfan

The picture quality is pristine! All episodes are unedited. I was very pleased with the purchase of the blu ray release.

Thank you.

Since you've actually watched and listened to at least some of the eps on the Lion's Gate blu-ray boxset, I'll take you word for the quality.  Most of the amazon reviewers of the dreadful Imavision set simply waxed on about how much they lov ed the show itself, when they were kids. It's the QUALITY of the set I care about.

Does your set include the original pilot film and the three, 2-hour movies that were made after the weekly series ended?

Over the decades, I have lamented many times about how crushing a blow the 1983-84 Massacre of TGL was, and how it seriously crippled the series. I don't need to regurgitate my personal complaints in extended detail...AGAIN, lol.

I will say, however, that it's gratifying to see other posters, who had been watching prior to the Gail Kobe/Pamela Long era, acknowledge how abrupt, extensive and damaging the massive structural changes were.

The show gutted its core family who had been essential since 1948, changed the style, focus and tone, and chopped off most of the soaps' memorable history. 

In exchange, we got saddled with the Shaynes, the Coppers, the Lewises, the Santos mob, the Winslow royals, and a seemingly endless revolving door of irrelevant and pointless newbies. 

For me, 1982 was the last, great year of "The Guiding Light That Was."

21 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

I got the whole series on blu ray when it was released a few years ago.

 

Many years ago, when LHOTP was released on DVD for the very first time (there was no blu-ray option available then), it came from a company called Imavision out of Quebec, Canada. Their advertisements decreed that the series had been remastered, color-corrected, and contained "all available scenes."

HA!

After snatching up the collection, I was horrified to discover that: 

--The opening and closing  credits of most episodes were cut off, leaving every four eps to play as one long, continuous piece.

--The sound was screwy, recorded at a higher-than-normal speed or something. Even adult male characters sounded akin to Minnie Mouse.

--The picture was muddy and dark.

--Imavision culled eps from cut, syndicated TV versions. Instead of the original running time of 47-ish minutes, a number of eps clocked in at 37-40 minutes. Scenes were cut off right in the middle of dialogue.

--Episodes were out of order.

--Characters who did not even appear in certain seasons were featured in the packaging for those years, anyway.

--There were spelling mistakes on the boxes.

This LHOTP collection proved to be the single worst, badly-produced and butchered DVD  set I have ever encountered.

(Amazingly, reviews on amazon sung the praises of the show, but I daresay they were written and uploaded before buyers actually watched Imavision's version.)

From what I gather the newer boxset, from Lion's Gate, really is remastered and features uncut episodes with good picture quality and decent sound.

Still, I'm hesitant about shelling out another chunk of money on LH without definitive assurance from real people that the Lion's Gate set is professionally produced. (I don't necessarily trust amazon reviews anymore.)

(BTW, the only other DVD set I've found to be ALMOST as bad as the Imavision LH one was the original Beverly Hills 90210. They were terribly butchered and rendered trying to watch the show worthless.)

4 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

And if this was for Ron, they can't even say they're the least awful.

Overall, we know that RC is the worst, for sure. But by having just three episodes to evaluate, his material must have come off as the least awful among the nominees.

Cringe.

When awards are handed out for being "the least awful among our potential choices," this is what you get.

Thanks, @DRW50!

I am always grateful the the heads up!

Thanks again, @slick jones.

Of all the 8,765,432 Patti Tates on SFT, Loring was by far the most memorable.

Gracias, @slick jones.

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

The ATWT ending was pure ego. I blame that partly on his running ATWT for a decade and seemingly seeing it as his show. I will never get past how disappointing that finale was.

In all my decades of soap watching, most series finales have left me disappointed, mainly because the cancelled shows had fallen into such disrepair by the time they finally got the axe.

I did think the final scene of SFT, with Jo and Stu, was sweet. The ending of Return to Peyton Place, fading out on Allison and Rod, was effective. But the only soap finale I felt was truly good was Ryan's Hope's, with Jack talking to Mary and then Maeve coming over to thank Jack for being part of her family. RH was never even one of my favorites, but the last episode was one I felt would satisfy the fans and bid a respectful farewell to the Ryan family.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I think that's meant to be Janet Grey (Eve).

Yes.

Personally, I would have cut her out and made room for Charita Bauer.

@slick jones, I always enjoy reading vintage articles.

Thanks for the heads up.

@DRW50 My favorite theme was Ritounelle, but the version of My Guiding Light in the video you linked was lovely.

There's one Christmas episode in which the Bauers were remembering Bert (Johnny gave Ed a blanket she had made many years before), and when My Guiding Light began playing in the background, I got seriously choked up.

I also like Hold on to Love.

Unfortunately, TGL had some real stinker openings in the later years too.

Thanks, @DRW50.

WHEN is this fine show going to get the full-series DVD release it has long deserved?

I'd buy the boxset in a heartbeat.

10 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

I love the idea and and I would also ad the Bauers to the mix. Papa Bauer, Bill and Bert with their young boys, as well as Meta and Trudy with their drama. 

I agree that in theory, the idea sounds wonderfully appealing.

Perhaps I am just jaded, however, but I'd be terrified that TPTB would royally screw it up.

Someone who truly understood soaps, and TGL's special qualities in particular, would need to oversee the production.

I'd lean towards Nancy Curlee.

8 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

ICAM

Me too.

Humor is wonderful and refreshing when it arises naturally from character, but becomes painful and forced when it's artificially dumped into soaps via outrageous, absurd plot gimmicks.

2 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Jim was said to be on a cruise to Finland or someplace in northern Europe.  The character died there and was brought back to Bay City for burial.  There was no onscreen funeral.  If I am not mistaken, Alice was the only one of his three children to attend the offscreen funeral.  Liz was still in town are well.  I'm not sure if Marianne Randolph Halloway was still on the canvas.  But the Matthews family was extremely small at that point. And not one former character returned for his service.   Sad that Jim and Hugh Marlowe got no real send off.

By this point, Hugh Marlowe's role had been minimized, and the Matthews family so decimated, that Jim's death wasn't given the attention or importance it would once have merited. Jim and Mary Matthews, Bert Bauer, Mattie and Winston Grimsley, etc., etc., etc...so many matriarchal and patriarchal figures of soaps were never given on-screen services or proper attention when they died.

16 minutes ago, Matt said:

You know these aren't real people, right?

What viewers feel about fictional characters and their scripted situations does not automatically correlate to how they would feel about or judge real-life situations.

29 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Yet there are some fans who eschew (catfights) entirely as an enjoyment.

There are people who both love and despise many forms of content, but there's no denying the number of people who revel in watching their favorite catfights, and enjoy seeing the villains they hate getting their butts whupped.

29 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Personally I have never been a fan of catfights, slaps, etc. with one exception & that is the catfight I consider to be the best ever in any soap. Written by Michele Val Jean, it is the iconic fight in GENERATIONS where the two women almost destroy an apartment.

There you go: the context of that scene made you appreciate it, just like the context of other scenes made different viewers appreciate those scenes and have their own reactions to them.

29 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

There was no straw, no camel, nor its back. It stood alone as an example where a good man physically assaulted his wife & the gentle reader in question summed up by saying she deserved it.

And your Generations reference was an example of two women physically assaulting each other, and you summing it up by saying you were a fan of it.

29 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

In the statement that I questioned, because I wanted to know how you truly felt about it, you said something to the effect of her deserving it, not what you're saying in this paragraph here above.

Complex questions of morality may be a challenge to understand, but one can acknowledge physical violence is wrong, while still acknowledging that if you goad and goad and goad someone far enough, they very well may react in a way you deem unacceptable. Meta Bauer on TGL may have been wrong to shoot her husband Ted White after her son Chuckie died, but viewers understood very well why she was driven to it.

29 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

And, there is a large body of soap fandom that in fact is entirely opposed to, for just one example, rape victims EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES to fall in love with or marry their rapists

And yet, vocal 'shippers in the audience continue to sing out praises for the most degenerate criminal men of the genre.

1 hour ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Heaven forbid that I do so!!! Not my intention, not at all. I personally find soaps to be excellent at challenging us about our attitudes & philosophies & enjoy discussions, but I will absolutely cease & desist. The drama needs to stay on the screen. 

I generally have no issue with people expressing their opinions, even when they diametrically oppose my own. 

Yes, it is shocking today to hear someone say, "She deserves it," but it all depends on the circumstances involved. I saw a viral video on Youtube years ago, about an aggressive woman on the subway harassing and harassing and HARASSING a man for the "crime" of wearing a jacket she thought looked stupid. He walked away, she followed him. She took a swing at another passenger filming her atrocious behavior. Finally, she whacked her victim across the back of his head with a pair of heavy shoes she was carrying, drawing blood. He turned around and smacked her, sending her flying backwards. The usual response of "Men should never hit women no matter what" followed, but so did many statements of support for the man's acting in self defense.

Everything depends on the overall context involved.

I was honestly less offended by Russ spanking Rachel after what she did, than I was to see Todd Manning (OLTL) and Luke Spencer (GH) rape women, and ultimately be forgiven for their crimes and turned into romantic leads.

Russ' actions were never condoned.