Planet Soap

Not Joss confiding in Sonny's hitman of nearly 30 years about how Dex "is not the kind of guy that would kill for money", lol.

There are other shows on TV that have criminal protagonists yet do not prop them up or excuse their behavior this much.

6 hours ago, titan1978 said:

That’s because from what I have read and the limited ATWT I have seen, Marland was also recapping the stories constantly by having new characters find out what was happening. It added to the small town feel that soaps do so well and kept all the stories alive each week.

What we have here so far is better day to day writing and lots of character work, coupled with the starts and stops of Frank’s production style on the show the last few years. For me it leaves things disjointed, and so I am sometimes not sure what characters know what, and often things are either cut or skipped over to keep a story alive after not really visiting it for days or even weeks. Cody being a prime example- we know the real world reasons why it has stalled. We don’t know the in universe reasons because all the old team cared about was the start and climax, and always a meandering middle.

If I was watching just this week, I would think the A story is Sonny’s crimes and mental instability. I’m not sure what the B and C stories are. Dex trying out for police? Jason and Carly? Maybe Nina/Drew was B and Dex C? The problem is the momentum and movement was in Jason’s return and Valentin is the head of Pikeman. And that’s barely been addressed since. But we are seeing nearly every step of Dex trying to win Joss back and become a cop.

IIRC the diamonds on the necklace were the Ice Princess cut up. And Victor ended up with it for his new weather machine? It was very convoluted. Cody just wanted the diamonds, I don’t think he was connected to the 60th anniversary story with Holly trying to get it and also Victor.

I don’t know what happened to it after they saved the day and Victor was killed. And Britt was also involved?

 

A massive cast is why I found it hard to follow the history of ATWT as opposed to the smaller and orbit structured cast of Y&R. ( Plus classic ATWT youtube videos artificially full episodes instead of individual story line playlists which also makes the show harder to follow).

As others have said, GH does not have a proper timeline for the beginning middle and end of storylines, they start, drop off, Pick back up, and end at random times. It's good that GH is more of an ensemble now than under Guza, but the way they show a structure. Now it's hard to figure out which storylines are central.

IMO Bill Bell was the best at storyline structure. His stories had clear starts, climaxes and endings, with great filler to keep things going. Everyone didn't interact with everyone, so there wasn't character connections all over the maps to confuse the viewer.

Stephanie vs Sheila B&B. We often talk about their respective feuds with Lauren and Brooke but this was epic.

16 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I'd have to respectfully disagree there. Compared to what many would have had in that position, one half of a supercouple dying, it felt like the bare minimum. I guess I could praise the show for at least doing that...

I'm sure PM would want to do more, but, for the reasons you've mentioned, I don't think Frank will go very far. GH has never had a history of being interested in black women anyway - I think the most successful subversion was Mary Mae, who could fill a matriarchal role without seeming solely like a matriarchal character due to Rosalind Cash. 

This! Even if they don't care genuinely care about black stories, from a business perspective, with Winter's success on y&r, surprisingly other soaps didn't take heed to attract that demo. 

Trina, Curtis & co are more diversity than GH has in years but their storylines are lacking.

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

In some ways the AJ/Carly is the unfulfilled pairing on GH.  And then they just go back to Jason/Carly or Sonny/Carly.  I didn't think SK was FV's enemy, but more Ron's.  I thought Vanessa was Frank's #1 enemy lol 

Sean Kenan & Laura Wright as well as Billy Warlock & SJB had some toxic sexual energy the level of Alan & Monica. That would have been a more entertaining pairing than Carly and Drew and the poor attempt at Carly & Jason in 2021. It's amazing that a pairing that had so much behind it to work just fell flat.

On paper the Britt story could have worked. Jason finally having a non-Sam romantic lead, only to have to marry Carly. Too bad the writing sucked. 

Boy I really needed those explainer scenes between Jason and Carly today! I dipped out of GH around in 2023 because most of the channels that post *high resolution* scenes from daily episodes of GH were taken down. The only two remaining channels exclusively posted Dante and Sam or Spencer and Trina scenes.

This is a testment to how the fans have kept the genre alive through pure dedication and nostalgia despite the the genre's quality erosion and near total collapse.

I could feel the nostalgia effect driving change around 2017 when we saw returns of charachters like Sheila Carter & Jason Morga, as well as the relaunch of B&B's classic intros.Y&R's charachter history episodes, holiday classics and pandemic classics were also proof of nostalgia's power in soaps.

Yes!  More variety in daytime! Let's hope it's written properly!!!! and let's hope this leads to more soaps...and more diversity on soaps. CBS tends to do well in rural areas so let's hope those audiences support this show as much as black viewers have supported Y&R.

Finally a soap (other than Y&R attempts to give one of their biggest demographics leading stories).

Not that GH is ratings powerhouse, but I am curious as to which soap will prevail in ratings...but that's getting ahead of ourselves.

The eclipse coverage might have seemed like overkill, but at least it's one uncontroversial event that the entire nation can rally around. This is so needed, especially in the same year as what is bound to be a tumultuous election. 

8 hours ago, Khan said:

I agree.  Unfortunately, there are too many people too willing to keep watching his TV series, movies and original plays.  Until that changes, and audiences start demanding better from him, he's not likely to evolve his craft.

I really hope we don't get another talk show anytime soon.  I think we scraped the bottom of that barrel the day we decided to give Drew Barrymore her own show.

I feel the same way about Byron Allen. Love that we have a successful billionaire black media magnate, but he delivers crap product. His judge shows are cheap and casted with fake actors, and I believe his news stations are just as unfortunate.

I don't know how many of you remember but during the 1 month gap between ATWT's ending and The Talk's launch in Sep/Oct 2010, I recall CBS in NYC airing Y&R again at 2pm. I don't recall the episodes looking like classics, they may have been recent reruns. 

I would like to see classic soaps air during the intermittent period. Even though you can get old episodes of B&B online, It feels like full-blown nostalgia to watch classic episodes live on TV in the afternoon. It recreates the appointment viewing feeling.

I still do not think it is a wise idea to llaunchThe Gates as a 1 hour Soap.  

To those advocating, for 30 minute reboots of ATWT and Guiding Light, I would love that as well. The question is, with so many actors and writers dead/retired, how good would the reboots be?

On 4/10/2024 at 6:18 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

Not to be funny or anything but those other productions have writers to pay while he doesn’t.

Just to confirm... does Tyler Perry have no writers at all???

On 4/10/2024 at 6:31 PM, Khan said:

It's been my experience that my fellow African-Americans will watch just about any film or TV series that features us because even terrible representation is better than no representation at all.

It's a shame that the most powerful black producer/creator in Hollywood delivers a s*it product. His refusal to hire writers and seeming ignorance of how bad his work is is astounding. There are a few Tyler Perry Productions like House of Pane that I enjoy, but others just fall flat. 

9 hours ago, dragonflies said:

Guess this frees up room for THE GATES

 

 

 

Finally CBS has given up on The Talk!

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

True that lol.  He had a lot of raw charm as Nico though.

Interesting.  So perhaps it was always an issue for him and he was just better prepared back then?

@titan1978 @DRW50  I thought GH was still decent until 2003.  I think 1999 was a rough year overall with cast departures, but 2002 was a great year for GH.  I have an obvious bias, but the only story I remember really hating was the Luke/Lucky/Summer triangle that was just..icky!.

Yes! From what I saw of 2002, Carly's presumed death, Sonny & Alexis's affair, Carly & Zander's friendship, Alexis's pregnancy and Kristina Sr's death, Brenda's return were all great... Didn't *Sonny also fake his death around that time, and Carly had to meet with the five families (which was repeated in 2021 lol) Damn that's alot of Sonny centered stuff. The sad part was Rick Webber and Laura's destructions.

From 2003 Ric and the panic room was good. I'm fuzzy on the rest.

With the news of Ole Orenthal's passing, how much can we attribute the decline of the genre to preemptions during his trial, and the appetite for reality television that the trial began?

7 hours ago, ranger1rg said:

Wow...all these posts suggesting Maura West be dumped from GH or questioning that she belongs there.

I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe.

Exactly! So many others deserve to go before Ava: Dex, Cyrus, Nina, Willow, Sasha, Curtis, Sam... The problem is they just haven't written properly for Ava. 

I do agree with the poster who said Frank hires big name actors and keeps them around past their expiration date. His stunt casting with no story trend needs to stop. 

On Jagger...Does every Gen X leading man have to pass through Carly lol!

Sony looks like he hasn't slept in weeks. MB had some serious bags under his eyes today.

3 hours ago, Vee said:

Ava is a cartoon in the best way possible for me. Maura always delivers. And she can do the quiet stuff too, when they give her something decent (like those scenes eviscerating Nikolas early last year).

Maura West is the antithesis of Kelly Monaco. Kelly delivers her lines in a (currently disinterested) casual/regular conversation way. Maura does an old-school soap campy cadence. Sometimes Maura is brilliant, other times she's cartoonish. But I will take what Maura is giving (drama, enthusiasm, theatrics) over current Kelly any day. 

Loved her as ATWT's Carly, and I totally see why she was chosen as Y&R's Diane. Had she been given her own character rather than being in the shadow of Susan Walers & Alex Donnelly, her run might have been successful.

5 hours ago, Vee said:

Didn't Faith do just that with Liz or someone else back in the 2000s? Ava's bangs and slutty sheer blouse are giving Faith Rosco to the hilt, right down to swanning around Sonny ready to get him into bed.

Meanwhile: Maybe it's me, but those Heather scenes with Kevin and Laura last week were genuinely good and touching IMO. The Tracy stuff has also been wonderful across the board, as others have already touched on.

Yes! I've always though of Ava as alternate Faith! Not sure which one of them I like more.

I am surprised to see the support for the Drew/Nina scene, lol!

Where are they going with Carly/Jagger. So far I see Carly's rescue as a catalyst for Jagger to soften and drop his leverage on her....dare I say romantic intentions pitted against Jason???

57 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I don't mind Kraze at all, but I don't think the actress that plays Blaze is up to par with Mansi and they aren't compelling enough to be an "A" couple.  I just don't care about Blaze that much and this homophobic mother story isn't helping.  It just feels very dated for the year 2024.  With the investment the show has put in Mansi I agree they could find someone better for her.  

Even when Joss is right, there is something so smug about EM's delivery that you want her to be wrong lol.

I think all soaps have the same issue with villains, especially Days (Orpheus, Clyde, Kristen, etc).  GH did the same thing with Nelle.  They find a good actor and feel like they need to keep them forever even when the story is burnt out. 

YUP. Unlike the Bold & the Beautiful, GH doesnt rush through stories which burns out villains. GH writes improperly for villains. Trying to get us to smypathize with Esme & Cyrus hasn't been working (for me at least).

29 minutes ago, BoldRestless said:

Kristina being written as a Sonny apologist doesn't work for me. She was nearly killed by a car bomb and had a show called Mob Princess and she's going to pretend she has no idea what he does? She's taken a major step back from the girl who processed her abusive boyfriend by realizing Sonny was abusive and abusive doesn't always mean hitting.

I'm not saying she can't love her father or the relationship can't evolve, especially since he supported her coming out. But I would expect her, out of all his children, to see the shades of grey. Its crazy that Michael at this point acknowledges who Sonny is more than she does.

Yup. If I recall correctly, hasn't Kristina been one of the most vocal children in calling her father out before Michael did?

Anyway thats the GH trope. Have people call out the mobsters then go right back to propping them in a few years.

As bad as Josslyn can become I loved seeing her call out Sonny for what he really is, and I loved that Carly did not disagree with her. But...who cares if Sonny beat up Cyrus --- a criminal? Why is that what sparks outrage amongst all the other things Sonny has done?

There Molly is again, caught up in a clear conflict of interest then defending her sister in the end.

 GH has a habit of having a decent villain, but then dragging them out past their expiration date: Cyrus and Esme ("now dead")

OLTL: Todd raped Blair... only she thought he did...because it was a brain tumor that made her misconstrue rough sex. Was that a rewrite or the originally planned story?

The concept of this thread is hilarious!

Liam would be the biggest earthquake, Finn would be concequential but not as big. Thomas (again) would also be a massive scandal. 

18 hours ago, ReddFoxx said:

In the Los Angeles market the local news airs at 11 am and then gets an entire block from 3-6 pm. It is completely excessive.

KTLA has news from 4am-2pm then again from 3-7 pm not to mention they produce entertainment shows at 2&7pm. From what I've seen, their not like CNN with  panel discussions, to film airtime, it's all packages an anchor read overs. Just excessive. panel discussions, to film airtime, it's all packages and anchor read overs. I agree with @SteelCity less hours is more when it comes to news.

12 hours ago, cody_1990 said:

Absolutely. CBS network has also always had a better relationship with their affiliates than ABC and NBC. Mostly because CBS had more successful years than the other two. NBC is the worst. Because they had some really horrendous years in the 70s and 80s, they became beholden to their affiliates, in part because of them threatening to leave the network. They always let affiliates dictate their daytime schedule. Airing network shows in whatever time slot they wanted, or not at all in some cases. That played a part in the ultimate failure of all NBC soaps after 1980. Affiliates had to make money. Programming 6 hours of news a day and airing syndicated shows is money in the pockets for the affiliates. That’s one of the “nails” in the coffin of soaps that isn’t talked about very often, network affiliation pressure.

Interesting. CBS did have a rocky period with affiliates. In 1994 when Fox bought NFL rights, dozens of their affilates defected to Fox. And in cities like Atlanta CBS was forced to affiliate with bottom feeder stations with high dial numbers ---Ch 46.

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

I usually agree. However some of the best plots on GH came from a willingness to listen to the actors about their characters. LC brought the idea of Monica’s breast cancer to Riche, and they ran with it. Genie in some of her first conversations with Wendy Riche brought up those two years that Laura was gone was fertile ground, and long enough for her to have a child and fully recovered. Guza ran with that one. Tony created the overall ideas for the L&L return, and Lannie fleshed it out with the writing team.

 

Well there was some conflict with it, because Claire Labine said Wendy would send her to talk to Geary about stuff they knew he would not like in her We Love Soaps interview. So he’s not fully creating that narrative later. She acknowledged that she just wasn’t capable of writing that 80’s action stuff he wanted to do all the time, and that Luke as a family man and what that means interested her. She did say he was always gracious about it with her.

Fair points

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

He had a lot of layers too. You had the danger stuff with Frank Smith and the issues with being Sonny’s partner. His fatherhood issues with Lucky and Laura. His relationship with Laura as she was happy to be back home and he was more inclined to keep running. They also still had a believable romantic connection. He and Bobbie had a very specific dynamic. There was a lot of fertile ground and it didn’t feel like his maligned opinions at the end of his tenure.

I loved Luke during Labine’s run. Truthfully, I still thought he was a wonderful character until the Felicia affair. Which tracks, because I need Laura to help make Luke palatable, and that was a point on the show where Genie felt they had stopped writing for her. She was just miserable for like two years as she grieved Lucky and the end of her marriage.

I enjoyed him a bit more again when Lulu arrived as a teen, and he was pulled away from being selfish all the time. But it got worse from there.

That’s the willingness part. What should be a collaboration sometimes becomes outsized on either end- a character way out of character to support a plot, or an actor refusing things or actively sabotaging the intent of the show (Burton with SJB’s Carly towards the end of his first run, KM clearly tanking her Jason reunion to stay with Billy Miller, whatever the hell happened with Liason/JaSam in the mid 2000’s, etc).

I remember reading an interview with Zenk about how much she hated Bitch Barbara on ATWT, didn’t agree with what Marland was doing, and fought against it. And then after the fact realizing that probably saved her in the long run because the show could see her as more than just a victim. Sometimes they should just act!

What happened with SJB and Steve Burton  I've read before that the reason Jason and Carly (an obvious couple) have not been paired is because of Burton's refusal.

I've also seen it suggested that Kelly Monaco wanted to be paired with Billy Miller instead of Burton. I can believe it.  Monaco has not shown in one ounce of enthusiasm in her acting with Burton---then again her acting's become dull with everyone. Maybe I need to rewatch, but I never bought Billy Miller as Jason, nor have I felt any spark between him and Kelly Monaco. 

Britt and Jason actually felt like a decent pairing before the writers screwed that up.

It sucks that Genie never got full respect as she should have been the Viki Lord of GH-- the longsuffering CENTRAL female heroine. At least she's getting some of that now.

1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

I can appreciate the protectiveness and ownership Tony Geary felt for Luke. The problem was he became so absolutist about things being a certain way that the audience saw him play differently. And that he himself spoke differently about before he got burned out.

I can get behind TG not wanting to play the same Luke and Laura dynamics. But to have that be so ingrained that they can’t even have Genie on the show was ridiculous. And I know that was JFP too, not just Tony.

I can appreciate actors not wanting to be slaves to the writers, but actors who aren't involved in the writing process (or actors who cannot write) shouldn't have too much say in storyline direction. 

8 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

I suspect they only had Luke do that because he’s the only one that could have gotten away with it without actually being killed by Jason. 

Geary loved playing this type of sh!t though.

JFP would later do a semi knockoff of this story on Y&R with Delia’s death, which has, of course, stuck. 

Yeah, he seemed to want Luke to be this dark nihilistic abyss of a character. I like mid-90s Luke — a family man running from his past. 

Seeing Jake rebuking a resurrected Jason on today's GH got me thinking back to Jake's "death" in 2011. We talk about the destruction of the Quartermaines but boy were Spencers decimated! Why on God's screen Earth would they have Luke drunkenly  run over his grandson? How did he escape those charges again??

The scene ahere Luke tries to get Jason to kill him, Also makes Luke look ugly.