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Lucy was just kind of pointless really. They burned through her backstory of being taken from her parents and acting out by the end of season 2. The producers/writers probably liked Charlene as a person, but they knew if they gave her a lot of heavy material she couldn't handle it. That scene after Mickey dies and she runs out of the house hitting Ray was just laughable. Not to mention the scene where she was taking drugs and Sue Ellen falls down the stairs and she is hovering over her. 

They could have Lucy pull a Karen Wolek. Tired of doing without luxuries she was accustomed to and forced to live on Mitch's salary. She starts " Entertaining" men during the day while Mitch is at work. Then some guy dies in her bed and things get ugly. I'm surprised they didn't do that type of story with Laura. She slept with Chip Todson to help Richard make business connections. Maybe when Richard got them into debt she started entertaining men on the side. She would lie and say she was selling beauty or home products. 

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I joked once that I think even I played Patti Tate for a few episodes in the '60's, lol!

I agree!

16 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Maybe Lucy should have been brought in for limited runs or at important story beats.

The message could have been that sometimes there isn't a happy ending and too much damage had been inflicted on Lucy for her to be a regular part of Gary and Val's lives.

A bittersweet moment.

Because for her to be forgotten/ignored was amiss.

Lucy could have moved in with her Mom after Lillimae was gone instead of Aunt Ginny to help take care of the twins. Lucy could have had a fling with Eric Fairgate since she was divorced from Mitch a second time. 

There are also all the various Ed Bauers on GL and various Tom Hughes on ATWT. I think Tom was one of the most re-casted characters on daytime. There were also a lot of Patti's on SFT. 

It seems like I remember Ashley running into seedy Vince along the way. Maybe when she had her mental break down or when she found out Brent Davis was her father ?

3 minutes ago, Khan said:

Is there any truth to the rumor that the producers found her working at some fast-food joint and offered her the gig?  Or was it one of those "discovered at a drugstore" tales that PR people love to make up?

(Personally, I thought the concept of someone with no prior acting experience landing a role on a hit TV series after being noticed at a fast-food restaurant would have made for a great Hallmark movie, lol).

I heard that was how Andie MacDowell was discovered. 

24 minutes ago, Khan said:

That was one thing that I did not like about Abby.  I could understand why, to her, "suburban" equaled "dull," but to me, it always sounded as if Abby was judging Val just because she happened to prefer that lifestyle.  The thing is, Abby should have understood more than anyone how much work went into being a suburban mom, especially when you have no spouse on hand to help you.  Then again, as Mary Jo Shively points out in one episode of "Designing Women," it has always been the "stay-at-home moms" vs. "working moms."  Maybe, in their own, subtle way, KL was attempting to reflect that.  *shrug*

I struggle all the time with how Charlene Tilton or Lucy could have fit permanently on KNOTS.  As it was, even DALLAS' producers had a hard time coming up with anything for her.  In the end, I feel like David Jacobs might have been right and that Lucy was just too "big" of a character to work on a comparatively more realistic show like KNOTS.

Yes, there has always been that battle of stay at home vs working mom. I guess Abby saw herself at as "A Lady Of The 80's" who felt she could have it all and thought Val was still stuck in a time warp. Housewives were still a thing in the 80's and 90's, but I'm not sure how many exist in 2024. Those women who call themselves as housewives on those trashy reality shows do not count....LOL

Jacobs always felt the Dallas characters never fit in on middle class Knots. Another factor was Charlene was a limited actress. On Dallas her storylines sucked pretty much and she was isolated from the main action most of the time. When they had her marry Mitch it was like " What do we do with them now ?" 

If they had moved Lucy & Mitch to Knots after they married, they would have probably had something gross like Diana Fairgate having an affair with Mitch and catfighting with Lucy. ( Claudia and Charlene's piss poor acting would have stunk things up). McCloskey wasn't that great of an actor either. He always sounded like he was reciting Shakespeare. 

7 hours ago, Chris B said:

I thought the way Mary Frances was handled was awful. Even with the way they changed her character, I don't understand why they didn't just keep her around instead of the bland look-a-like. I also wasn't fond on Kathleen Noone's character who I feel they didn't know what to do with. I think the show would've been better served making Robin Strasser a regular and moving her into the cul-de-sac. 

Another missed opportunity I felt was Sid's daughter Annie. She could've come back around season 8 or 9 and since she was now an adult, they could've taken her anywhere they wanted to. She also could've been a contender to replace Abby and would've likely had a similar relationship with Karen. 

The ultimate missed opportunity has to be Lucy. I get Charlene Tilton wasn't the greatest actress, but when she returned for her second run she had greatly improved and the way they wrote Lucy was much better but it never went anywhere. My ideal fancasting for her would've been in Vanessa Hunt's role in season 14. It would've made sense for her to move back once Val died to help Gary with the twins and the Vanessa aspect would've been easy to slot her into since she was a globetrotter and we didn't have much info on what she did when out of Dallas. I also think it would be interesting how she handled being around Gary and Kate considering she always had a contentious relationship with him.

It never made sense to totally ignore Lucy after the first few years of Knots. I read that Joan thought it aged her too much to have the constant reminder that she was the mother to a grown woman....LOL

As for night time soaps:

Dynasty: Pamela Sue Martin VS Emma Samms

                Al Corley VS Jack Coleman

                Catherine Oxenberg VS Karen Cellini

Dallas: Morgan Fairchild VS Priscilla Presley

             David Ackroyd VS Ted Shackelford

             David Wayne VS Keenan Wynn

7 hours ago, te. said:

I think Pam and Bobby (and Christopher) leaving Southfork in that red car, leaving JR all alone finally getting what he thought he wanted all those years would've been a good finale. The final shot would've been JR at that dining table, getting served by Teresa with nobody else there.

That would have been a good ending too. J.R. all alone in the world. 

It would have been nice if Bobby and Pam could have had their happy ending as the series finale. The shows would end like the show began with Bobby marrying that Barnes girl. 

Abby was always referring to Val as suburban. In the 1997 reunion she walks into the Ewing home and tells Gary " I've always loved this room, it so suburban. 

1 hour ago, Khan said:

IIRC, the last time we saw Jeff Cunningham, Abby, through some deputy, served him with a restraining order, barring him from seeing Olivia and Brian again or else he would face charges.  I don't remember what happened to Jeff after that, or whether the restraining order was allowed to lapse, but, yeah, I think there were several occasions when he could've returned.

For instance, Jeff could've shown up during Olivia's battle with drugs.  That is, if Abby ever allowed Jeff to be notified (and I doubt she would've).  I wonder what role he might've played in Olivia's recovery or even in Peter Hollister's death, since Abby and Olivia both were considered suspects.

Jeff also could've returned during Olivia's relationship drama with Harold.  For once, he and Abby would've been on the same side, agreeing that Harold was "bad news" and that Olivia was better off without him.  And even though Abby would've hated doing it, I even could see her and Jeff concocting some scheme to have Harold arrested and/or Olivia leave town with her dad, too.

For sure, Jeff should've been there after Olivia had attempted suicide.  I can just see it now: Karen notifies Jeff about Olivia; Jeff returns to Knots Landing to be with his daughter; Abby discovers Karen was the one who notified him; Karen (who, IIRC, wasn't entirely unsympathetic toward Jeff when Abby had double-crossed him years before) tells Abby that Olivia's father had a right to know what had happened; Abby tells Karen, "He gave up that right when he tried to take her and Brian away from me.  I told you before, Karen: no one hurts me."

The thing is, KNOTS wasn't entirely averse to bringing back characters.  Remember Mary Frances Sumner?  Unfortunately, the Lechowicks were the ones who brought her back; and not only was she almost entirely different from what she was before (and I'm not talking just physical appearances either), but like everyone else during the Lechowicks' run, she was there only long enough to service the plot; and when she had serviced it, they dispatched with her in the ugliest way possible.

I agree. It would be something that Karen would do notifying Jeff. Abby did interfere with Diana and Karen, so it would be another payback along with Olivia's drug problem.  

I never saw what David Jacobs did in Stacy Galina. They brought her back to the show after Jacobs expressed regret killing her off. Then again for the 1997 reunion. 

I saw an article that the Library Of Congress plans to screen the infamous "Lost" 1972 Jerry Lewis film " The Day The Clown Cried". The movie was never completed/released. The plot of the film is about a washed up circus clown during World War II that is used by the Nazis to lead a train of children to their deaths in a concentration camp. In the end " The Clown" joins hands with the children and he walks into the chamber deciding to die along with the children"

For decades people asked Lewis about it and he refused to allow it to see the light of day and barely would discuss it. He said it was a bad film and a mistake. He eventually donated a copy to the LOC and stipulated it could not been screened till 2024. 

I can't stand to watch the Drew Carey version of Price Is Right. I grew up with Bob and the original Barker Beauties and the current show is just Sad.

Johnny Olson and Rod Roddy were incredible announcers and really took pride in their work describing the products. " Dinty Moore Beef Stew ! Tasty real beef, with hearty potatoes and carrots in a rich brown gravy. Dinty Moore, It's a meal in a can" !!! George Gray: " It's a can of stew" It's a pack of gum. It's a cleaning spray, it's a bag of chips YAWN !!

8 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Don Chastain told the press that he (Chastain) had been writing for the show during the strike, but didn't submit a story bible until September/ October, 1981, and was basically fired immediately afterwards. His bible included a plotline involving Travis Sentell going to outer space; Chastain was quoted as saying he had the NASA footage he was going to use for it in his hallway closet, or some closet. 

 

 That sounds craptastic !

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

He was a fertility doctor they hinted at pairing with Marley.

Thanks. I knew I had seen him on a daytime soap. He also appeared in a lot of commercials in the 80's. 

3 hours ago, te. said:

Which was dumb, especially when these shows started shedding cast members left and right (although KNOTS managed to keep a lot of its cast intact for a long time). You'd think bringing back someone with connection to the canvas would be a good way to help transition the show, but it rarely happened.

I agree. Abby's ex husband Jeff never appeared again. You would think he would pop again years later. 

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

As mentioned primetime soaps didn't really go back to past stories and characters to propel new plots

 Sid's daughter, Abby's  ex Jeff, Judy Trent, Karen's brother and assorted others never came back to stir up trouble or provide story for the regulars.

Seems a missed opportunity in a lot of cases.

Did we ever learn about Val's father?

The only thing we knew about Val's father was he was older than Lillimae and was friends with her father. She mentions it in her visit in season 1. 

I agree that those plots from early seasons of Knots & Dallas pretty much were forgotten after they played out. Heck, Knots divorced itself from Dallas after the dream fiasco.

I have been re-watching season 1. In episode 3 " Let Me Count The Ways" Karen contemplates an affair with Diana's young teacher David Crane. This episode screams late 70's with the sets, clothes, etc...David's apartment set is the same one used as Cliff Barnes during this time. I laugh when David and Karen go into the bedroom and there is a suggestive poster of melting ice cream cone. 

It would have been interesting if David could have been brought back at some point. 

David James Carroll who played the role of David later passed away in 1992 from complications of AIDS. I gather he was more of a Broadway star and only acted sporadically on TV.  I think I saw him on another soap at some point. Another World ?

1 hour ago, Bright Eyes said:

A random inkling made me look it up, and it's kind of crazy how quickly Mike Bauer was aged. If my quick google search is correct, he was born in 1952 and by 1954 was already a pre-teen, or at least, played by one (Christopher Walken). If this is incorrect, please enlighten me.

Charita Bauer was only 12 years older than Don Stewart and 17 years older than Mart Hulswit. Elevera Roussel was born in 1948, so Charita was 25 years old when she was born. 

I found this recent interview with Cindy Pickett. She talks some about Guiding Light.....she also mentions Sada Thompson was going to do a role on the show, but it was such a fast pace it didn't work out.....first time I heard of this. I always though Sada could have played Bert Bauer's sister. I guess it was for the best since she did Family.

Maybe the Dobsons would have brought Jackie, Elizabeth, Rita and Hope. They could have written better material for Robert Gentry when he returned as Ed.