DramatistDreamer

The press seems thirsty for a presidential quality speech that is coherent and sincere. I'm sorry I missed this speech, I always look forward to these occasions and they are becoming fewer and far between.

22 minutes ago, marceline said:

 

Between this and Roseanne, I'm beginning to think Sara Gilbert is cursed. 

21 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

No doubt, she's beginning to think the same.

This seems to be the byproduct of working within an industry where 'who you know' is more important than 'what you know'.  

31 minutes ago, Vee said:

For me it was less about Janet herself and more about how at the time there seemed to be a ton of raunchy public stunts at the MTV Awards, etc. to keep viewership up and eyes on folks pre-Twitter, and frankly neither Timberlake nor Janet seemed above it around then. It seemed of a piece with a lot of other lame look-at-me stunts of the period. But it turned out to be an honest mistake. Even when I wasn't sure, I never liked how she was treated while JT got off.

 

And that clip of Julie - wow. Not sure how The Talk weathers this.

I never saw any of those others get 'punished' with the same venom as Janet.  As entertaining as Madonna was/is, I've seen her pull some very cheap stunts over decades, including saying/doing some highly incendiary sh*t, there was days of grumbling but nothing that could be construed as blacklisting.

As for Chen, like I posted/ranted on the previous page, she should've sat down and ate her food.  She's used (some may say abused) her very public platform to not so subtly mete out pointed criticism to try to justify Janet being blacklisted, it's not rocket science to discern why.

Now that her scummy husband is under the microscope, again she used her public media platform to try to curve the narrative and also save herself from having to answer 'tedious' questions about her husband's behavior, when she could've just said nothing.  People would've grumbled but it would've been a sure shot better than her haughty holier-than-thou speech scolding people for actually wanting to know what was going on. 

I don't watch the show but that clip was played Ad nauseum on every media platform.

7. Just found this clip of @JulieChen talking about Jackson. She appears clinical in discussing it and notes Jackson didn't apologize (she did) and Timberlake did. Watch the whole clip, it's telling as everyone else is excited about Janet and Julie isn't. https://t.co/h6eygMwGKM pic.twitter.com/qGHU9cCART

— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) September 7, 2018

6 hours ago, Juliajms said:

I really hope some of these women can successfully sue Les Moonves.  Why did he feel entitled to an apology from Janet Jackson?? It happened to her.  I'm glad she didn't grovel to that POS.

1 hour ago, Cat said:

This ^^ just makes me boil with rage even more. A $100 million golden parachute as thanksfor ruining a lot of women's careers and their chance to put food on the table. As head of not just CBS but Viacom, his reach was extensive and all-encompassing, as illustrated by Yashir Ali's Tweets regarding Janet Jackson. To the point where even a random book deal at Simon & Schuster gets kaboshed.

 

Moonves went out of his way to target all these women! He must really have a hate-on for females, because Justin Timberlake kisses his ass and gets helped to the next level of his uninspiring career, while Eric Braeden gets to play golf with Moonves every month. It seems like targeted, systematic attacks on women and their careers.

Reading about Moonves' involvement in stalling Janet's career with the intent to destroy her is making me angry all over again!  Imagine if Janet had been so desperate as to turn to substance abuse like Whitney, we could've lost her.

Moonves is even more of a misogynist than I thought.  He disgusts me daily. He should be getting the Weinstein treatment too.

I never thought it was a stunt on Janet's part.  It was choreography gone wrong.  As someone who once performed onstage and had to have 'quick changes' just beyond the stage, I know things can go wrong in seconds.  And yes, I've had things go wrong with costumes, although thankfully nothing on Janet's level.  I think in this society, Black people, Black women, in particular are regarded as Jezebels that are up to no good, with the assumption of guilt.  It's a slave mentality (she seduced the Massa). 

Historians who like to paint themselves as feminists can still, with a straight face, maintain that Sally Hemmings seduced Thomas Jefferson and not that a middle aged white plantation owner raped a 16 year old girl, multiple times, leading to her bearing multiple children that he kept enslaved.  Blame Sally, of course because Jefferson, one of the founding fathers, couldn't have possibly been wrong.

Same mentality, IMO.  Paint Janet as Jezebel, contaminating family-oriented, CTE causing late-afternoon entertainment. SMDH.

EDT:  And another thing-- Julie Chen should go too.  Initially, I was thinking she should leave just The Talk because people seem to want her to stay on BB (two shows that I admit to not watching) but she sat there on The Talk and haughtily defended him when she should've said something like "I love my husband but I will not speak on this at this time, as it involves a deeply personal matter to me") but she had to scold people for daring to call out her husband. 

She should've just sat there and ate her food, so to speak.  So she can go too but I doubt a company as soulless and pathological as CBS will do anything.  The same company that is bestowing a platinum parachute on a predator.

1 hour ago, Mitch said:

I never understood if they wanted to put ATWT and GL to bed they didnt do it with style and go out on a high note with good writing. Also just announce.."Hey we are done" and set a date a few years out, instead it limped along and just dwindled away.

They were likely afraid of even greater resistence had PGP made it publicly known years in advance.  So much more, had the show actually have been of good quality writing/production.  They may have wanted to prevent those 'crazy soap fanatics' from doing the utmost to keep a still good quality show on the air.

The higher the level of degradation in terms of quality, the less mass resistance to the show going off air.  And if it was a 'slow bleed', so much the better for them.  Fans would be too fatigued and depressed to mount a vigorous fight by the end.

In the process, the fallout would be reduced. 

(*Case in point, I don't see much in the way of boycotting P&G's products. 

What dropoff they've had in sales has mostly to do with basic competition from new companies offering better alternatives (non-toxic, organic, minimal ingredient, etc.) to what they offer.  Tide detergent is being outflanked by the likes of Seventh Generation and Mrs. Meyer's.  Ivory has intense competition from Lever produced soaps and 'natural' brands like Dr. Bronners.  There is just more and better variety of products on the market. By the looks of things, PGP has adapted to a smaller percentage of market share anyway*).

Corporations are far more adept at playing the 'long game' than many of us actually realize.

6 minutes ago, Khan said:

Oh, I agree, Vee.  It IS the right thing for Booker and his ride-or-dies to do.  I'm just saying that if Cornyn goes through with invoking Senate Rule 29 and we end up losing (IMO) a great Senator because he tried to serve in the best interests of the American people, then it's gonna be sad as hell.

 

Meanwhile, I'm loving Booker's "Bring it!".  He forgot the word "bitch," but the sentiment remains.

I actually think that this is what the people of New Jersey sent Booker to the Senate to do.

8 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Indeed. Given that Irna also had a woman's wheelchair accidentally pushed into oncoming traffic by a group of children, I guess she had a taste for the macabre. You can kind of see it in fuller form in her proteges Bill and Agnes. 

Alfred Hitchcock made a lifetime career of these types of creative renderings. Perhaps Phillips missed her calling in suspense.

Ugh, so gross!

19-year-old ballerina sues the New York City Ballet, alleging that male dancers created a “fraternity-like atmosphere” in which they shared sexually explicit photos of her and other female dancers https://t.co/mo1aoGKuP2

— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) September 6, 2018

Les Moonves had a lot of help from within the ranks of CBS. 

Getting rid of him (and the 'Golden Parachute' is beyond insulting) is solving only half the problem, since sexism and misogyny have become part and parcel of CBS' DNA in how it functions as an organization, at virtually every level (news, daytime, primetime, limited series, etc.).

The genius of Irna Phillips was definitely in her ability to create and conceptualize these show and some of their characters and story trajectories.  Those were her skills, which, unfortunately did not include human resources, personnel or talent relations. 

I also think that being a woman in any position of authority, especially during those times required a strong hand, and Phillips likely felt that she had to demonstrate a 'show of strength' as a woman doing what is generally thought of as a man's position.  The problem is that, on occasion that 'show of strength' appeared to have ventured into tyrannical territory-- there really can be a fine line sometimes.

It continues to be a source of great disappointment that there has never been a thoroughly complex, holistic assessment of Phillips and the industry that she created.  It is worthy of a documentary series on the scale of Ken Burns' Jazz but it's yet another acknowledgement of how little people think of the daytime drama genre, even people within the industry seem to think very little of it, particularly the history.

12 hours ago, P.J. said:

Well, maybe us "crazy CarJackers" can be absolved of "getting her fired". 

 

No one should have their career tanked through the good ol' boys network, but it's hard to envision her as NCIS' Kate, for example. 

I believe that quite a few soap actresses had their careers tanked by abusive male executives and their long retaliatory reach. 

In fact, I think these same abusive execs eventually helped to sink the genre, which is why only shards remain.

This is why I never believed the generalization that CBS executives stayed out of the affairs of their soaps.   They were clearly the unseen hand, dipping in where they saw fit.  If a network is airing your show, (especially if your program was housed in their network's building for a quarter of a century) even if they are not producing it, there is no such thing as no interference.

The second trial of a Blackwater contractor charged with shooting unarmed civilians in the Iraq War ends in a mistrial, a US attorney spokesperson says https://t.co/Zel0DaiJiv pic.twitter.com/eR9y4CQQyp

— CNN Breaking News (@cnnbrk) September 5, 2018

Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey told House lawmakers the company should have acted faster to remove an image edited to show a gun pointed at Meghan McCain as she approached her father's casket last week. https://t.co/PBbjC22WqG

— The Trace (@teamtrace) September 5, 2018

Anyone who hasn't read Sarah Joy Brown's Twitter timeline, it's worth a quick read.

She pretty much states that Les Moonves cratered her acting career. 

If you remember her character Julia Larrabee was murdered by her abusive ex husband Les.  Yes, Les!

It's as I always suspected that those executives as CBS had a long reach and were not above interfering in the inner workings of the show.

Marland was likely the last ATWT headwriter who had any type of true autonomy/independence over the show's creative direction. 

Perhaps, in a weird way Goutman had some some type of autonomy but by then very few of the network or PGP executives actually cared about preserving the show, ATWT was in 'sunset' mode by 2001.  (I know because I was in communication with someone at PGP's NYC office). 

4 hours ago, j swift said:

Is Liz's stairway death the infamous case of writer's revenge? 

That was a well documented case of Phillips having the final say over the actions of a character when she couldn't get the final say over the actions of the actor.

According to ATWT folklore, the actress had been performing in a B'way play where her role required nudity, which Phillips was opposed to.  Apparently Irna Phillips made her feelings known and the actress was given an ultimatum which she disregarded.  So Phillips killed off the character and the method was having her fall while going up the stairs. This was before I was born so I've only heard of it. 

I would've loved to have seen even a clip but right now, I'd settle for being able to read the script.  If only I could get a copy of that script!!

So many of this country's institutions are run by truly garbage people.  Those "resisters" are every bit as complicit as the glassy-eyed supporters who labor in delusions of the "good" that this White House is supposedly doing.  They're actually worse because they have a sense of how much damage this twit-in-chief is capable of. 

This Op-Ed is clearly an attempt at trying to absolve themselves, perhaps so they can look at themselves in the mirror?

No problem @j swift.

This did get me thinking though... it would've meant a great deal if someone had culled/curated the top 50 (hell, I'd even settle for 25 or 20) episodes that dramatized the evolution of Kim (I'm not going to type out all her married names, lol).

1 minute ago, P.J. said:

You're judging '70's tropes by modern standards. Abortion wasn't legal until 73. Kim only married John to cover up her ONS with Bob, and she wasn't screwing John, he raped her and she got pregnant with Andy. But when that happened, marital rape wasn't even recognized.

 

I'm a little fuzzy on the entire Paul/Liz/Dan/Susan thing, but there again, younger characters never would've been shown openly cohabitating without marriage. 

 

I'm sure ATWT "behind the times" by 70's standards, but even on All in the Family, Gloria and Mike were married and enjoying sex, not single and screwing.

I was going to say something similar when I read the post but didn't have the time at the moment I read it.

Social mores in previous decades are always different, and we have to be careful to look through that lens when judging the stories.  That's not to say we can't be critical, there's always room for critique...just that we have to take all of those factors into consideration.

EDT:  I just started to peruse Sarah Joy Brown's TL and besides the fact that it got my blood boiling the lengths to which a misogynistic tyrant like Moonves will go to punish anyone who doesn't bend to his will but it concerns me how much someone of his level within CBS can reach down and mess with things, even a soap opera just to wreak vengeance.

I'm more convinced than ever that executives do indeed interfere with the soaps, even if it has nothing to do with their area.  It's what I've suspected for a long time but no one within the network system is truly autonomous, let alone independent.

Sadly, I can guess why Brown has been blocked in her career.  It's likely Moonves employed the "Harvey" method for punishing actresses who don't submit to his advances.

Speaking of which...what's the latest on Moonves? 

The focus on him seems to have dimmed somewhat. 

CBS might have be more institutionally flawed than even NBC, if that's possible.  

Wasn't there supposed to be some sort of internal investigation of Moonves, or was that simply a delay tactic?

It takes a special kind of display to surpass Marco Rubio in terms of sheer desperation but Jones' wild show of desperation just about covers it.

Someone took a picture of one of Kavanaugh's aides flashing a white power symbol as she sat next to Condoleeza Rice.

This country looks so sad and incredibly pathetic right now.

EDT:  So now there is a social media debate about 'did she or didn't she?'  in the Congressional hearing. 

Meanwhile Marco Rubio got into a scuffle (mostly verbal) with Alex Jones in the hallway outside of the hearing.

This morning a protesting woman sitting in a wheelchair was dragged out with the cameras rolling. 

Now, I understand that the camera is instructed not to show the mostly female protesters as they are being dragged/pushed out by security, so they don't get T.V. time.

racists hand gestures or not, this country still looks sad and incredibly pathetic right now.

I don't like the comparisons to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.  First of all, as a former member of the City Council, Ayanna Pressley has quite a bit more legislative experience than Ocasio-Cortez, for starters.

I think the press meant to compare Crowley and Capuano, two relatively popular, heavily endorsed candidates who were defeated after serving long incumbencies in their political careers.

Ms. Pressley's Congressional seat was once occupied by JFK.  

Ayanna Pressley has defeated 10-term incumbent Rep. Michael Capuano for the Democratic nomination in Massachusetts's 7th congressional district.

With no Republican challenger, Pressley will become the first black woman to represent Massachusetts in Congress. pic.twitter.com/dbPZn142nW

— Only In Boston (@OnlyInBOS) September 5, 2018

Grassley is shook by all the chaos in these hearings.  He is stumbling to get words out.

15 hours ago, Juliajms said:

Is 45 the rat or the seal?

Both animals are smarter than he is.