Soaplovers

4 hours ago, Khan said:

No problem! 

As you can see, the majority of atypical episodes happened during the Peter S. Fischer era (1984-1991).  Once he departed as showrunner, and especially after Lansbury took over production in '92, MSW became more risk-averse.

Two of the season 9 episodes you mentioned... I remember my late mom raving about both of them for being different.  She much preferred the one you mentioned had the twist ending (she was in the camp that liked the clever twist)

5 minutes ago, Khan said:

That's an interesting idea, @Soaplovers, but I think the show's overall tone would have changed even more than it actually did when she acquired the NYC apartment.  Sort of like when "Diagnosis: Murder" shifted locales (from Denver to L.A.) between seasons with no on-screen explanation.  When they moved to L.A., the show itself became campier and harder to believe.

No harder to believe then Cabot Cove being the murder capital of New England.. and people still opted to visit or move there LOL 

18 hours ago, Khan said:

Thanks for posting that, @DaytimeFan!

I could be wrong, of course, but I suspect Lansbury butted heads more with Moessinger than she did with Peter S. Fischer.  Say what you will about the first seven seasons of MSW - especially in the last two seasons when, to quote Fischer, Cabot Cove was getting too cute for its' own good - but they did retain a "literary quality" that Moessinger's lone year as showrunner lacked (J. Michael Straczynski's scripts notwithstanding).  Which isn't to say that S8 was a terrible year!  Moessinger and his team certainly broadened Jessica's world and put the show back in the Top 10.  But whenever I watch reruns from that particular season, I often feel like I'm watching a Dean Hargrove-produced series (like "Matlock" or "Diagnosis: Murder") rather than classic MSW.

In general, the period between 1990/91 to 1992/3 is a weird transition period for most of tv.

Murder She Wrote went in a more procedural/gritty direction in the early 90s before settling into that mid 90s minimalist vibe (where the guest stars were no longer Hollywood Starlets.. but mostly unknowns)

I think season 8 was a transition season and the tone just didn't fit with the more 80s comfort vibe.  Personally I understood why Jessica would have more then one residence... but I would have had her in LA instead of NYC since her books were starting to be adapted to movies/tv... and East Coast Jessica in West Coast Hollywood would have been an interesting element to explore.

On 4/7/2024 at 9:42 PM, DRW50 said:

 

Remember ABC's Townies, which was also meant to be a comeback for Molly Ringwald?

Ironic that show was supposed to be a comeback for Molly Ringwald..but both Jenna Elfman and Lauren Graham got more notice during the brief run.

I always thought of it as being loosely based on Mystic Pizza

23 hours ago, Khan said:

OMG, yes!  Yes, yes, a thousand times, YES!!  IDK where Bekins would fit on the current GH canvas, but if I were Elizabeth Korte, Patrick Mulcahey, Frank Valentini or Nathan Varni, I'd make the room!

Thanks, @DRW50, for that recap!

Hospital admin... the heavy at GH.   

4 hours ago, Cat said:

 

Monique!!  I will never stop wanting her back on RHOP! She is so badly needed for the show -- SO needed. I wish she and Candiace would make up, too.

Never forget:

 

 

Why would she want to go back on RHOP.. that show helped end her marriage with the paternity rumor.

Only a sadist or someone  wanting pain inflicted on them would want to go back on that show... or any of the Bravo reality shows.

1 hour ago, Taoboi said:

OC

 

And just in case...

 

 

As Alexandra Spaulding of GL fame once said 'I'm sure this time it's forever' LOL 

January 2025 is far enough into the future where TPTB can get that Bible written, casting, sets, studio space, writers, and a strong EP/producer between now and then.

15 hours ago, Xanthe said:

I think they thought Amanda was taking up that space and Nancy would be superfluous, especially after Paulina was introduced. But I think there could have been room for Nancy as well if Amanda had had a properly defined character. 

 

At first, when Sandra F came on as Amanda.... Depriest did seem to make an effort to provide some layers to the character of Amanda.  She had Amanda/Rachel have mother/daughter conflict with Amanda not wanting to do the traditional things all girls with money did which drove Rachel a bit crazy because that was all she had wanted for herself and wanted to provide for her daughter.

And I think Amanda wanting to develop her identity beyond being a Cory was promising... as well as her relationship with the more working/middle class Sam helped with that.  I think the 1988 writer strike really kind of derailed that characterization of Amanda.. and she never really had much direction as a character.   I think Sandra F's take as Amanda was probably best and infused her character with some sort of spark/character.. which got lost with the two other recasts.

Reason I thought Judi Evans would have made a good Nancy was because her version of Paulina eventually evolved into a more Ada-like character.   Fiesty, fighting tooth and nail for her family.. worked at the Italian restaurant.. was the advice giver, and down to earth.

I would have kept Cali Timmons as Paulina.. and brought on Judi Evans as Rachel's half sister Nancy.  That way both actresses would have had a place on the show.. and co-existed since both actresses put something special.

Not recast Lorna... Once Alicia C opted to leave... I would have kept Lorna off canvas.  If they insisted on hiring Robin Christopher.. have her darken her hair and have play a recast Lisa (Robin's Lorna seemed more like a Lisa type then Lorna).

1 hour ago, Forever8 said:

Maybe one of the stories can also involve Jo meeting her son Austin for the first time in 30 years. I mean, you could have it with Austin wanting to get to know his mother but keeping a low profile, or Jo could've found him on social media, etc. 

That would be a logical link from the original show to this new show... Jo's son coming back into the picture.

I do admit to being curious to see how Amanda, Sydney and Jo would fit in... since the three had some actual history with each other.

On 4/6/2024 at 10:36 PM, DRW50 said:

I think Lillian and Buzz had been together for a year or two before the show ended.

I don't disagree about happy endings that feel unearned, but I didn't really mind them on GL, maybe because I'd already seen so much misery on the show over the years. With that said, one of the few things I will praise the ATWT ending for was not reuniting Lily and Holden.

I had forgotten Martha was considered for Marah. She would have been dull as hell in whatever role she had, I'm sure. For me Rachel Miner was still Michelle, although Bethany was the best after her. 

I didn't know about Martha being considered for Michelle.

From what I recall..Beth Bonner and Sabine Singh were in the running.  I think Sabine would have been a good Michelle recast.

Tom/Brooke both said that there was an elitist attitude from the directors that the only true actors were on Broadway while people like Kelley/Brooke were not real performers.  Just typical NYC elitism rearing its ugly head.

One of the reasons I thought Sam was a great character was because of Brooke and how she played her.   She had a lowkey and naturalistic take on the character... and she had a dry sense of humor that contrasted nicely with the dramatic takes of both Lucinda/Lily.  Sam and Sierra served the same function.

If I recall, post Caso.. the show/P and G did three waves of firings in 1995/1996/1997.. and I think Brooke/Sam was the 2nd wave in 1996.

And I think Sam would have survived beyond 1998 had Brooke come back to play the part... and I had a feeling so would have the character of Georgia.

On 3/31/2024 at 1:11 PM, NothinButAttitude said:

I am pretty certain they talked about Casey's death. If I am not mistaken, one of Katie's early arcs on the show was that she found the tapes that Casey recorded prior to them passing. 

(re: Goutman) I hate when people in power down the line have remorse for something that was painfully obvious. Had he not let his ego constantly get in the way of the betterment of the show, I think ATWT would've had a fighting chance. I am glad that he is no longer staining the remaining four soaps with this stupidity. 

(re: Katie) Fans disliked Katie b/c she was sanctimonious twit. For me, Katie was too one dimensional and had no good qualities. Every other vixen on the canvas (i.e. Carly, Emily, Molly, Allison) on the canvas at the time had something likable and redeemable about them. Katie started selfish and ended selfish. And don't get me started on how she became the moral high ground to Carly--constantly taking Carly to task as if Katie was some saint. 

The only time I found her remotely tolerable was when she was with Brad. Once he was killed off, it annoyed me to no end how they made her a sniveling martyr to the end. They even made Nancy's memorial episode more about Katie than Nancy and Hughes. And it still bothers me that Chris (now played by show-killer Cosgrove) got latched to Katie. Especially, in the early years when Katie never truly felt remorse for getting him arrested for stalking during the Endicott Awards story. 

I do think that had Katie had more familial scenes with Craig and Margo, she would've been layered even more. Most of her scenes with Margo consisted of Margo cleaning up her messes or scolding her. And her scenes with Craig consisted of Katie scolding Craig or running to him for assistance to handle something on her behalf unethically. 

While I enjoyed Sheffer's era most than many, he did do a lot of stupid sh*t. One of them being writing all of Lyla's kids so dislikable. Margo became too judgmental and that arc with Doc Reese... yikes. She lost all of her edge from previous eras. Craig was too cartoony. They erased any progression Craig had made b/c Sheffer was eager to have a Victor Newman/Sonny Corinthos/Stefano Dimera type villain on ATWT. Looking back, they should've made Hunt Block play Rick Ryan (Babs' brother) instead of Craig. All of the stories they played could've easily played with Rick. He still could've been the town pariah that lusted after Carly. 

I think Katie was better written in her first year or two on the show when she did have scenes with Margo...when she was a little schemer and wasn't written as a heroine.

It seemed once she and Simon became well liked as a couple is when the show started propping her up.

The only time I liked her in the later years is when she and Reid were friends..and they bantered with one another.  It was what she and Henry should have been..but weren't.

7 hours ago, Cat said:

Exactly! Especially since Bravo appears to be tiptoeing away from the whole UGT thing. I like the nuRHONY cast but allowing them to interact with a few OGs (Erin and Ramona need to meet, too) will shake up the dynamic. Maybe it will even bring Jenna out of her shell, who knows.

And speaking of shaking-it-up wishlists -- what is the thought on Heather Dubrow? Do you think she is integral to RHOC? (I do). Or would the RHOBH cast benefit from having her around?

OC was fine when Dubrow wasn't on the show and the show would be find without her on it.  

In fact, I think some of the OC's more scripted/rehearsed elements really took off when she joined originally in season 7.  She would be more at home on RHOBH.

9 minutes ago, Cheap21 said:

@Cat @NothinButAttitude Im with both you about Miami. The cast is perfect and does not need to be changed. All ladies come to work and the chemistry and dynamics between them is the best on any franchise

 

RHONY, Im also fine with all returning but Jenna should have been a friend. I think they need to cast one more woman though or at the very least add a friend of

I guess the rumor that TPTB were thinking of recruting one or two OGs to be in the cast with the newbies on NY was just that.

Yeah... Ubah/Jenna should have been downgraded or cut because neither worked for me.  I would add one new person because there was a lack of that spark that would have made the whole thing pop.

3 hours ago, Gray Bunny said:

I don't know how reliable the online rumor mill is, but there's whisperings of Eileen Davidson returning to RHOBH.

Of course, I always love me some Eileen. It'd be interesting to see her without Rinna around. She also wouldn't have her weak sauce gripe against LVP to go on. 

She and Dorit did not click so I could see them revisiting their initial dislike of one another.

@AntoyneKaren can go back to dragging Ashley now 

2 hours ago, Cat said:

Only just saw this.

I had hoped that with reunion having been so good, that it saved everyone's spot. I feel very sad about it all. I hope it is just demotions here and there and that the cast in its entirety can be saved.

Larsa needs to go.

Adriana and Alexia can do the villianess thing with likable moments better than Larsa.

I would add someone new in order to keep the dynamic from growing stale.

4 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

Not shocked if the Robyn allegations are true. This move is to scare the sh*t out of Gizelle (too) that if she doesn't get it together, her future looks bleak too. Plus Robyn has gotten a free ride for 8 seasons. Robyn fumbled the bag hard because this season should've been about her, and it ended up being about Mia, who (as aforementioned) is being propelled as the future of this show. 

Backtracking to Candiace, @Cat, I think Wendy will be fine. I really think Keiarna is going to get Candiace's flute. Keiarna will be the one to bridge the gap between Wendy/Gizelle. 

Gizelle without Robyn will be interesting to see.

20 hours ago, j swift said:

@BetterForgotten The soundtrack had such a hold on me.  I played it nonstop in my car for a year (maybe because the lyrics were so easy to memorize )

In hindsight, I realized that Jackee is a much better actress than Oprah in the series.  Perhaps because of her icon status, I feel like you always see Oprah acting and using a fake accent.  She's always playing a version of Sophia from Color Purple.  While Jackee is much more organic and believable. 

It was a crime that Jackee kind of got shoehorned into the Sandra Clarke role.

Her role in this mini series showed she could play the dramatic beats as well as the comedic ones.  She did end up doing a tv movie where she played dual roles...and was believable.

The 1990s had mini series, but they seemed to be either two or three parts. 

Anyone remember The Ten Kingdoms from the early 2000s?

Potomac:

Great reunion looks.

Karen's situation isn't a surprise.  I have always viewed her as extremely insecure and dealing with a lot of demons.  Generally people that are overly confident and lean into labeling themselves, such as a 'Grand Dame' are trying to compensate for some deep rooted insecurity.

I hope she gets help.

Beverly Hills:

Ann Marie not coming back is not a surprise.  Mid season new arrivals have it difficult already because you don't usually get time to slowly be worked into the show.

Now...we need Ericka, Dorit or Kyle to also be shown the door next.

On 3/1/2024 at 1:43 PM, Khan said:

It might be due more to the writing, but I found Jada Rowland's take on Carolee to be more conventional, for lack of a better word.  Not that I thought JR was terrible in the role; she just wasn't as quirky.

I always chalked it up to the mental breakdown she had, her stay in a mental hospital, and never really dealing with the trauma of Steve cheating on her and never really looking for her too much.

The show dropped the ball not having the breakdown and stay in a mental hospital as a way to explain the change in Carolee.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I agree.  Between the regulars at the hotel and the guests of the week, it was too many characters for the producers to service.  And wasn't there a storyline about newlyweds Dave and Megan fighting about Dave's gambling problem?  Between stuff like that, Peter and Christine's slow-burn romance and the takeover attempt, it might as well have morphed into "Hill Street Blues" or "St. Elsewhere," but in a hotel.

Definitely "St. Elsewhere."  I mean, my God, they even had an arc about a rapist stalking the women at St. Eligius!  (And to this day, I still don't know if Dr. Peter White was the rapist, or if it was another guy, or if there were, in fact, two rapists terrorizing people simultaneously).  

St Elsewhere was one step away from being a primetime soap.  I viewed it as such because even some of the patient stories were multi-episodes.

I wonder if the original intention was to have Hotel be a hybrid soap/anthology show... but when Bette Davis wasn't able to continue on.. the show got reworked into more an anthology show.. with a few soapy elements thrown in later on the show.

I guess the slow burn love story with Christine and Peter was one of the long running threads on the show.. but the hotel take over attempt didn't happen till much later.

A question I have is this... were there any dramas in the 80s or 90s that you could have see becoming more primetime soapish?

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

@Mona Kane Croft, I agree with your analysis of Mary Matthews, and how the character seriously devolved under Harding Lemay. He even acknowledged in print that he wanted to imbue her with the negative attributes that were more appropriate "for a woman like that."

Under Irna Phillips, Agnes Nixon and Robert Cenedella, however, Mary was a warm, nurturing, maternal figure.

Irna Phillips had envisioned Mary to be like Nancy..only with more shades of grey.

She had lost her importance when Liz was reintroduced and given more position with Pat, Russ, and Alice then Mary was.