classicmoment

I knew Frank was going to sleep with Dottie eventually; I had come to terms with that. What I didn’t expect was for him to deny her the chance to live? He is vile. This wasn’t edgy or shocking, but tasteless. The show walked the line well the week before. It was clear Frank had ulterior motives, but Dottie knew everything he was doing. The shock and awe effect is wearing thin already. The insistence to keep Frank and Fi at the center of the story week after week is going to prove to be disastrous.

Fi’s not garnering much sympathy from me. She claimed last season she couldn’t leave the kids, but this season she has spent more time trying to get laid than playing mother hen. It puts a different spin on Fi’s decision to turn down Steve. It was nice to see him briefly.

Yea I agree

The thing with this show is that sometimes it descends into farce/camp/satire, I can't quite put my finger on the right word, but you get my point. Things happen that are so outragous, I can't quite moralize about them because they never could or never would happen. Like the G's being ok with Carl torturing and killing neighborhood animals. But then things turn on a dime and this becomes a serious drama like when Monica handed Liam over to Fiona. These quick changes in tone make it hard for me to know how I feel about the characters.

The tone of the this show is dark. The fact is there is a wide range of actual values throughout American culture and people play by their own rules in many instances. This still shocks people I guess. This show is dark in tone but with much satire and camp to lighten it up

I haven't watched more than a couple of episodes of the British version, but I have a feeling the U.S. show is going to start to seriously deviate from that version this year.

I agree

The Season 2 opener was nothing short of amazing! I'm so happy that the gang is all back and I'm already wanting more. I'm also glad that we get to see them in another setting besides Winter. I'm starting to like Sheila a little more and Frank is... Frank. ... And nuMandy is just no. I miss Jane Levy in the role sfm!

Completely agreed!

Enjoying the show, but I still don't know the names by heart except (Cersei- and I agree exceptional actress). I guess when they say it on the show I know who's who though

It's kind of messed up for the show I'm thinking that they offered the epi before it's premiere. I love that Tami's on the show she just turned it up a knotch! So many quotables

This show is fuull of so much "hoodrat in nice settings" drama.

Tami

Loves how Royce stands up for herself

Evelyn talks alot of smack, thinks she's too much, and is slutty but she brings alot of the drama.

They are so trashy. But watching

Cersei and Robert had a great scene,

Yes very welll written scene this one to me. It said enough to establish the true character dynamics but put more intrigue into the character fo Cersei for me, who revolts me as the layers are being peeled back but somehow I'm trying to see where she's coming from

Well, it's not too late to read the books. It would help in keeping all the names straight, that is for sure.

lol I have so many books to read it's not even funny. I will add this to my itinerary for the summer. Right now I'm pretty swamped between work and school. TV's just the easier break when I get a chance........

Never thought that I would love this far more than Borgias but it's happening......

Wish I had read the books

wow what a beautiful brialliantly organic scene. everything came together flawlessly inclduing the BM. They were all so amazing and that was enhanced by every element. Every one of them brough their A game to this

I'm not sure I remember Frank ever having a paternalistic feeling (his week of sobriety doesn't count, since he did it for money). He walked by Liam when he was out in the cold and unsupervised, he didn't even bother to comfort Debby when she was sobbing at the nursing home. He head butted Ian and hasn't even talked about the paternity issue with him. I guess he did think of Lip after he f*cked Karen, but he didn't consider that he was a father figure to Karen, on the subconsious level at the very least. I thought Lip was justified to be pissed during the time Frank was sober. He can do it for money, but not for his kids? F*ck you, Frank. Seriously.

Presumably they benefit to a small degree from the benefits he gets because the children exist. . That only makes him slightly less shitty. He's letting the state take care of his kids, instead of stealing the food from their mouths (oh wait, he tried and Fiona called him on it) what a hero. I mean, yes, he could take their food stamps and sell them for alcohol money. He doesn't do that, but we know that he drinks away his disability money and that the older kids have to chip in to pay for food and the rest of the bills. Yet, Frank manages to delude himself into believing he's the victim.

I do give both WHM and the show credit for evoking my emotions when it comes to the character of Frank. There are few characters that I have hated more in the history of televison, while recognizing the amazing talent of the actor. Honestly, I think I have wanted to beat his face in during every single episode. Of course, then came Monica, and somehow, she really is worse than he is. For me, it's that she dares to reach for any sort of happiness at the expense of her children. She's saving herself, while they are on the verge of drowing. At least Frank has the grace to be miserable.

Yeah I think Frank's place on the show is wierd. At this point he's written and potrayed in a way where it is known he isn't to be loved (though you can understand why the kids love him and hate him all at the sametime) but tehre's a need for him to be explored and maybe a possibility of understanding

The pilot followed "Shameless" almost scene for scene. The following episodes were fairly faithful. In the original, Steve dropped Frank off in Paris, while in the Showtime version he was dumped in Canada. The third episode, which I recently rewatched, they repeated the "Mandy claims Ian raped her" situation except decided to introduce Mickey as one of the brothers instead of waiting four more seasons to do so. The fourth episode followed the Kev / Veroinca marriage scheme. Since then, the show has deviated a bit while picking and choosing the stories to tell. The Ian paternity situation was dealt with in the first season of the Showtime version, while it was addressed four or five seasons in on the original. The original, by the way, dropped that bombshell in a much more shocking situation. Monica's return was similar in the first season, but it played out a bit differently.

Sheila Jackson, Joan Cusack's character, was in the original show. Her and Frank married and had twins before Monica came back permanently and ousted her.

I thought the ending to the Liam situation was hilarious. The idea that Fiona might lose Liam to Monica / Bob was heartbreaking and the revelation that Liam was actually Frank's son was too much.

In the original, Kev and Veronica were written out fairly early on (end of seasons 2?). I think Steve Howey and Shanola Hampton are awesome as Kev and Veronica. They were concerned with having a baby in the original. The Ethel plot works for me and Howey shines as a pseudo-father and Hampton is great as someone who is trying not to become too attached. I was excited when they casted Anthony Anderson as Marty, Veronica's crazy as [!@#$%^&*] brother, and brought in Carol, Veroinca's mom, for a couple of episodes. They are major players in the original. I would love to see them return.

More comments later. Anyone else watchign the original on Sundance? They just finished season six or seven in February and now they've jumped back a couple. Lip's still around and Karen has married one of the Maguires.

I actually meant to type that it is the same premise however there is are various differences in the writing approaches; which are the differences I pointed out. I don't know why I kept thinking Shameless was a movie, I remember seeing it a while ago and maybe I just caught one epi or something I don't know.

Juliajms, I think Steve knows how much Fiona loves the kids; he bought her the house next door. He has spent an entire season trying to allow her to have her own life outside the kids. If Tony wasn’t forcing his hand, Steve wouldn’t have offered to take her out of the country.

Interesting observation, it's interesting how quickly I began to question the character of Steve and embraced Tony's bit of Darkness as soon as the events were unfolding but it is open ended and can go either way that was good writing.

Several people comment the writing for Karen has been inconsistent. I don’t feel that way at all. I feel Karen’s descent into darkness was logical based on the events she went through during the season. From the beginning, Karen had issues with her father and had a bizarre relationship with Frank. Karen / Lip’s relationship was rather open until the final episode where Lip realized he cared for her. Karen’s goth look seemed an extreme reaction to her father declaring her a whore at the Purity Ball, but that whole sequence has produced some wonderful drama. I don’t think Karen has been inconsistent, but just extreme.

That was a brilliant epiphany played out and written, I love that the character of Karen came full circle. I would have more appreciated Karen's ultimate jump into darkness though if the father wasn't written so flatly. I feel like besides the way it was timed and executed, the events leading to the conclusion of the first season for the character of Karen (i.e. her sleeping w/Frank, broadcasting it on the internet, practically isolating herself) makes sense, but the pacing was a bit off for me. I would have understood it, if I saw more of where the father was coming from. I kinda wanted to make my own full decision on the father myself and not have the show tell me who the character is without my interpretation. It wasn't bad, it was just a bit in my face and unsubtle in its developments . Though I still think that father-daughter purity scene was dark, wrong, perverted and brilliant!

I do worry a bit about Veronica / Kevin with the introduction of Amy Smart. I don’t understand the point of Smart’s character. I would have rather seen Veronica in the scenes with Fiona especially now that Veronica has her own kid. The introduction of Ethel should have strengthened the Fiona / Veronica bond, but I feel like they don’t know what to do with Veronica / Kevin.

I so want them to develop the character of Veronica more and I am wondering about the effect of Fiona and Veronica's dynamic with the addition of this mysterious chick with an unclear agenda.

I've only ever seen the first few series of the UK version, so I pretty much had no interest in this.

Does it faithfully follow the UK series?

No it adds an allamerican twisted sense of humor to it, the characters are pretty much within the same elments as they are defined on the UK version, but the writing for this gravely differs by the sense of humor, the sense of culture it brings, and it manages to surprise you somehow.

**edit**8 I'm not sure if Sheila was apart of the original but J.Cusack rock it in her role here

Frank had an AA ancestor. The title of that episode was "Nana Gallagher Had an Affair".

That left me like . I love that the writers have such a sense of humor though

Yes let's discuss, I loved that scene between Fiona and Liam they are really incredible young talents (Rossum& Monaghan). The set up and lighting (stage design) set the mood and her pause before her "I know" had me like , I wasn't expecting that. I thought maybe they were coming from a "mothers always know" angle. White is a gem too, I loved his scenes with Wiggins where he declared he loved her during sex and then practically had a mini breakdown at what occured. I love Wiggins too, the writing for her character worries me a bit because they take her all over the place it seems, but her scenes of confession at the father daughter thing was well written and well acted. The sleeper here though is Kenney her scenes confronting Steve for being Jimmy made me feel like I was wacthing a grown woman catching and confronting her sister's boyfriend in his lies, she was so saavy it was like a seasoned vet reaching a character turning point in both directions. It was strange watching the character regress back into being a child easily manipulated again by Steve/Jimmy, but I get it. She plays conflicted very well, and I feel sympathy fotr her having tod eal with emotions she's not ready for

Sir Macy as Frank. Frank is a drunk narcissist but I agree with Julia he's wierdly the glue that holds the cast of charcters together with their drives/motivations and situations. When he goes off into one of his many speeches, it's wierd how it's written, it's like three points are met each time 1)Frank's selfish 2) Frank's a narcissist liar 3) Frank's lazy but he may not be as dum as he looks, and then the overlying issue is Frank's a drunk

*Edit* I totally meant Fiona and Ian here, sorry.

I want them to flesh out the Veronica character just a bit more. I kinda understand White and Wiggins (their character's) dynamic, it's like an understanding of each other beyond the defense mechanisms. It's, in a yucky kind of way, what a relationship should and shouldn't be rolled into one. I mean as the girlfriend you shouldn't do the father (but remember he had her try to to do it to Ian too), but it's like ,in an essence of true love ,forgiveness has to happen and understanding has to happen and sympathy has to happen. It was touching in a gross sort of way.

Also I see the dynamic of Frank and Ian was supposed to connect and lead to the Ian paternity issue but How is LIAM (the last obviosuly of AA descent) Frank's? I though for sure Ian and Lip managed to mess with the paternity results

P.S. Joan Cusack Rocks

I love the show! I hadn't heard of it until it was a little past the middle of its first season. I heard nothing but good things about it so caught up with it onDemand. I am so glad I started watching. This show is just the best...I'm addicted. I love Emmy Rossum as Fiona. Jeremy Allen White (Lip) & Cameron Monaghan (Ian) are fantastic. My favorite out of everyone is Sheila. Omg, AMAZING. I just love Joan Cusack in this role!!

Not really a fan of William Macy (Frank). He's a good actor but I'm just not into Franks wild drunk antics one bit. I'm more interested in the S/L's other than his. The season was heavy on him and I found my attention going off into elsewhere at times when he was shown. I get he's the star of the show but I think it would be a lot better if he was phased out a bit.

I cannot wait until the show is back next year. Gosh that is so far away, I don't think I can wait! lol. The finale was ok, I'm glad Fiona decided to stay in Chicago. I was a fan of her & Steve up until his lies started to come out. I'd like to see Fiona & Tony (the cop) maybe get closer next season. I don't understand why Lip would go back to Karen after what she did with his dad?? It was definitely a WTF moment for me watching him go so easy on her after being so angry. Also when Ian told Fiona he was gay and she said she already knew. I wanted to know how she knew?? That scene should have been longer. I didn't like the way it ended.

Yes let's discuss, I loved that scene between Fiona and Liam they are really incredible young talents (Rossum& Monaghan). The set up and lighting (stage design) set the mood and her pause before her "I know" had me like , I wasn't expecting that. I thought maybe they were coming from a "mothers always know" angle. White is a gem too, I loved his scenes with Wiggins where he declared he loved her during sex and then practically had a mini breakdown at what occured. I love Wiggins too, the writing for her character worries me a bit because they take her all over the place it seems, but her scenes of confession at the father daughter thing was well written and well acted. The sleeper here though is Kenney her scenes confronting Steve for being Jimmy made me feel like I was wacthing a grown woman catching and confronting her sister's boyfriend in his lies, she was so saavy it was like a seasoned vet reaching a character turning point in both directions. It was strange watching the character regress back into being a child easily manipulated again by Steve/Jimmy, but I get it. She plays conflicted very well, and I feel sympathy fotr her having tod eal with emotions she's not ready for

Sir Macy as Frank. Frank is a drunk narcissist but I agree with Julia he's wierdly the glue that holds the cast of charcters together with their drives/motivations and situations. When he goes off into one of his many speeches, it's wierd how it's written, it's like three points are met each time 1)Frank's selfish 2) Frank's a narcissist liar 3) Frank's lazy but he may not be as dum as he looks, and then the overlying issue is Frank's a drunk

I don't watch the remake, yet, but I do watch the original show, which began on Channel 4 in 2004. It has some incredibly good, underrated actors, and many shocking, funny, dramatic moments. It's not as good as it used to be but still has its moments, and some wonderful actors, especially the Maguire family. Mickey Maguire is one of the best TV characters ever.

Yes we havn't dived too deep too fast; but they are really taking their time here to remove the layers of these characters

Based on the movie Shameless produced in 2004.I love all the soapy techniques applied to this series. It just showed me the soap format can work if they incorporate the classic mix of proper storytelling elements: Dilemmas, matters of the heart, moral compass, character driven- well timed stories with multiple arcs etcetcetc. The biggest difference I see are the kinds of characters we care about, and of course on Showtime you can totally make its undertones much darker with a touch of light comedy to lighten it, and these collection of young actors/actresses and sir MACY (William H.)are doing a bang up job. Anyone here watches?

This discussion is hilarious and oh so appreciated. Out of all the Spelling production this one is closest to my heart. Throught all it's wrongs and it's rights. It had a great bleand of everything I needed in that time, true classic for me.

I found this picture interesting also. I wondered how many backstage jokes came out of this shoot.

Ahem.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/allmyshadows/90210cast2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

<img src="http://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Come on, how can you not appreciate the subtly androgynous sexual orientation of this picture? Dylan's resting his head on Steve's junk while David is all snuggled up next to Brandon. Fanboy obsession? I think not!

I loved Kelly /Brandon way more than kelly/Dylan. I loved that whole dynamic and just always found it interesting that Brandon would look at Kelly for relationship and wanted them to explore other factors in question through tthe relationship. I loved Valerie, I liked Brenda but I think Valerie character brought more depth to the gang on a whole. I loved her dynamic with Kelly and let me see Kelly being snooty for the first time. I agree witht he poster that said they never got what the guys saw in Donna but I do remember how much I dug drunk Donna. I liked Claire but hated that they paired her with Steve for so long I never got it. I hated that they weren't ever able to bring a black major player on canvas, that sucked for me. I stopped being interested when Valerie left, errr well even before that when Brndon and Kelly were to get married and they rewrote it as if they weren't into each other, I didn't buy it never bought that she was more into Dylan either.

James Morrison- Wonderful World

James Morrison- Dream on Hayley

James Morrison- if you don't wanna love me

James Morrison- Precious Love

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riDukz4XzDk

Loving this whole album

Mary J Bige "My Life", such a classic blend of Hip-Hop, Soul, and Blues. The lyricism, harmonies, and vocalism are so powerful, emotional and universally relatable throughout. I hear the pain, the longing, the joy it really captures the rollercoaster ride of a relationship. I understand Mary when she says "I don't want to make another album like that" she was so vulnerable here.