Winchester91

Greatest Soap Cop-Out's.

109 posts in this topic

29 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

What I have read and heard that Days didn't pursue David and Valerie back in the 70's after viewer backlash.

 

 

 

Call me crazy but I think that the return of Valerie and the prison break of the three villains were both RC's ideas.

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Y&R- The disease of the month, which is focused on for all of a storyline then dropped with no follow up, or used as a 'go to' device when the writers run out of ideas.

  • e.g.- Nikki diagnosed with MS. Has she gone into remission? Have there been no flare ups with all the stress from the Dylan episode? We never see any indication of how Nikki is managing her MS.
  • What about Victor's 100 other ailments? Does he still suffer from epilepsy? If not, how was that resolved? Most people who resolve their seizures do so by having a less invasive form of brain surgery. Did he do this? What about his heart? His heart medicine?
  • Sharon's bi-polar has been mostly disastrously written, as a means to send her climbing the walls. We know she is taking her medication because she keeps telling us but I'm still hoping for a benign mass on her frontal lobe that can be removed by surgery. I also want it to be a slow growing tumor that started from an undiagnosed contusion she sustained after being hit by that car after she ran out into the street after discovering Nick's fling with Grace.

B&B-

  • Many have already been spoken of but dumping the Dayzee character and not exploring further a romantic relationship with Thomas Forrester. I wasn't watching a lot during this time but I've seen a few episodes and clips on You Tube. Sending her off the canvas with Marcus seemed like a big heave-ho out of the show.
  • Doing absolutely nothing with the Victor St. Lawrence character (I forget his name already). Why couldn't there be a relationship between his character and Steffi?  What is B&B so afraid of? Instead they'd rather bounce Steffi around between goofy Spencers like she's some kind of twit!

ATWT-

  • Not fully exploring the obvious conflict of interest between different entities in Oakdale. I remember one prosecutor who was going up against Tom for D.A. mentioned the overwhelming conflicts of interest with the Hughes family and everyone just shrugged it off but Tom was having a televised debate, moderated by his stepmother on the station that was owned by his wife's stepmother.
  • Also didn't anyone think it extremely unprofessional to see Margo and Hal canoodling in the station house? There were a few times that Roy walked in and looked kind of uncomfortable but didn't say anything. I know it was done so that her husband Tom could walk in on the scene but where was Mac or the Commissioner to tell them all that it wasn't professional?
  • Speaking of Roy, dropping the death of his brother was a missed opportunity. Roy's father was bitter about Roy joining the OPD because his other son was shot and killed by the police. The show made Roy's father seem like he was somewhat irrational from grief but what would've of been the harm in having Roy do some digging, just to prove to his father that there was no misconduct and the police acted properly? What if Roy, in his side investigation found something to be amiss in the arresting officer's history? Knowing what we know about the fraught relationship between the police and segments of the community, Marland could've written a truly timely story but seemed to stop short of exploring it. 
  • He also stopped short of exploring further story with Hank Elliott by not making the character a permanent fixture in Oakdale and possibly having to deal with more than just the prejudice of a callow Paul Stenbeck or his father James or Kirk Anderson, before his reformed days. What if he had had to deal with the prejudice of some respected Oakdale figures?
  • Speaking of prejudice, I've never made it a secret that I didn't care for the way that Roy and Jessica's relationship was written, at times, namely the fact that they always made Roy seem unevolved on, well, EVERYTHING. It was interesting that made Roy explore his feelings of prejudice in dealing with the fact that Jessica was once involved with a married White man but why not explore why Jessica never had a full relationship with a Black man? Was it because of the rejection she felt because her father left the family? The writing made all the issues tilt on one side of the relationship. If Marland was going to go that route with Roy and Jessica, I wished the show would've kept Heather Dalton, I loved the chemistry between Heather and Roy.

ALL SOAPS I'VE SEEN-

Tend to shy away from deep exploration of certain topics and issues, possibly out of an abundance of caution for the fact that they air in the daytime.

Also, people claim that they use soaps as an escape and don't want reality to intrude on their fantasy.

Yet, anytime soap fans cite what they believe are the most compelling scenes and storylines, they often list the heaviest material.

  • Drunken Katherine Chancellor begging her husband not to leave and eventually driving him to his death.
  • Karen Wolek breaking down and admitting to being a prostitute on the stand
  • Reva Shayne ranting to a paralyzed Josh Lewis about how since he makes her feel like a slut, so she may as well baptize herself The "Slut of Springfield"
  • Lily Walsh discovering the identity of her birth parents
  • Stone dying of AIDS leaving behind Robin Scorpio who is HIV positive
  • Margo's rape and discovery that her rapist is HIV positive

And that's just a small sample.

I think soaps lose when they try to pretend the outside world and all its problems don't exist. Escapism is fine but soaps do have a history with at least trying to deal with difficult issues and topics and those are the ones that the soap writers and producers claim to be proudest of, so...

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45 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Y&R- The disease of the month, which is focused on for all of a storyline then dropped with no follow up, or used as a 'go to' device when the writers run out of ideas.

  • e.g.- Nikki diagnosed with MS. Has she gone into remission? Have there been no flare ups with all the stress from the Dylan episode? We never see any indication of how Nikki is managing her MS.
  • What about Victor's 100 other ailments? Does he still suffer from epilepsy? If not, how was that resolved? Most people who resolve their seizures do so by having a less invasive form of brain surgery. Did he do this? What about his heart? His heart medicine?
  • Sharon's bi-polar has been mostly disastrously written, as a means to send her climbing the walls. We know she is taking her medication because she keeps telling us but I'm still hoping for a benign mass on her frontal lobe that can be removed by surgery. I also want it to be a slow growing tumor that started from an undiagnosed contusion she sustained after being hit by that car after she ran out into the street after discovering Nick's fling with Grace.

B&B-

  • Many have already been spoken of but dumping the Dayzee character and not exploring further a romantic relationship with Thomas Forrester. I wasn't watching a lot during this time but I've seen a few episodes and clips on You Tube. Sending her off the canvas with Marcus seemed like a big heave-ho out of the show.
  • Doing absolutely nothing with the Victor St. Lawrence character (I forget his name already). Why couldn't there be a relationship between his character and Steffi?  What is B&B so afraid of? Instead they'd rather bounce Steffi around between goofy Spencers like she's some kind of twit!

ATWT-

  • Not fully exploring the obvious conflict of interest between different entities in Oakdale. I remember one prosecutor who was going up against Tom for D.A. mentioned the overwhelming conflicts of interest with the Hughes family and everyone just shrugged it off but Tom was having a televised debate, moderated by his stepmother on the station that was owned by his wife's stepmother.
  • Also didn't anyone think it extremely unprofessional to see Margo and Hal canoodling in the station house? There were a few times that Roy walked in and looked kind of uncomfortable but didn't say anything. I know it was done so that her husband Tom could walk in on the scene but where was Mac or the Commissioner to tell them all that it wasn't professional?
  • Speaking of Roy, dropping the death of his brother was a missed opportunity. Roy's father was bitter about Roy joining the OPD because his other son was shot and killed by the police. The show made Roy's father seem like he was somewhat irrational from grief but what would've of been the harm in having Roy do some digging, just to prove to his father that there was no misconduct and the police acted properly? What if Roy, in his side investigation found something to be amiss in the arresting officer's history? Knowing what we know about the fraught relationship between the police and segments of the community, Marland could've written a truly timely story but seemed to stop short of exploring it. 
  • He also stopped short of exploring further story with Hank Elliott by not making the character a permanent fixture in Oakdale and possibly having to deal with more than just the prejudice of a callow Paul Stenbeck or his father James or Kirk Anderson, before his reformed days. What if he had had to deal with the prejudice of some respected Oakdale figures?
  • Speaking of prejudice, I've never made it a secret that I didn't care for the way that Roy and Jessica's relationship was written, at times, namely the fact that they always made Roy seem unevolved on, well, EVERYTHING. It was interesting that made Roy explore his feelings of prejudice in dealing with the fact that Jessica was once involved with a married White man but why not explore why Jessica never had a full relationship with a Black man? Was it because of the rejection she felt because her father left the family? The writing made all the issues tilt on one side of the relationship. If Marland was going to go that route with Roy and Jessica, I wished the show would've kept Heather Dalton, I loved the chemistry between Heather and Roy.

ALL SOAPS I'VE SEEN-

Tend to shy away from deep exploration of certain topics and issues, possibly out of an abundance of caution for the fact that they air in the daytime.

Also, people claim that they use soaps as an escape and don't want reality to intrude on their fantasy.

Yet, anytime soap fans cite what they believe are the most compelling scenes and storylines, they often list the heaviest material.

  • Drunken Katherine Chancellor begging her husband not to leave and eventually driving him to his death.
  • Karen Wolek breaking down and admitting to being a prostitute on the stand
  • Reva Shayne ranting to a paralyzed Josh Lewis about how since he makes her feel like a slut, so she may as well baptize herself The "Slut of Springfield"
  • Lily Walsh discovering the identity of her birth parents
  • Stone dying of AIDS leaving behind Robin Scorpio who is HIV positive
  • Margo's rape and discovery that her rapist is HIV positive

And that's just a small sample.

I think soaps lose when they try to pretend the outside world and all its problems don't exist. Escapism is fine but soaps do have a history with at least trying to deal with difficult issues and topics and those are the ones that the soap writers and producers claim to be proudest of, so...

 

Funny you mention Carter on BB because im confused why he isnt being used.  He's very attractive and a good actor.  In fact, when Steffy came back full time...the actress even said she would love her character to be with Carter...and she would love to work with the character.

 

I think Sharon and her bi polar was an easy cop out...when the obvious solution woukd have been when she got hit by the car aftet catching nick and grace.  Dont people sometimes suffer mood swings and have persinality changes after accidents...either from head injuries, etc.  Maybe it could shown that the reason she keeps relapsing is because of the head injury..and was misdiagnosed.  It happens sometimes in real life.

 

Right now, Im watching early episodes of another Life...a christian soap opera that aired for over 3 years in the early 80s.  There were pretty frank talks about society changing and hownl those changes conflicted with their faith....and the ingenure after a massive car accident started questioning the love of her fiance..and it was explained how major life events can change how people feel about one another..or cause them to open their eyes to the truth 

 

In fact, when her doubt was confirmed...she and her mother talked about forgiveness...and the double standard of men and women.  I was surprised at such an honest conversation especially in 1981 on a Christian soap opera...but un some ways, being in cable allowed more freedom then on the networks.

 

 

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The most unforgivable for me was OLTL.

 

Wrapping up Nora's husband, the DA, cheating on her with his son's best (male) friend in two weeks in favor of Spencer Truman on 12 days a week and the day to day retcons to explain this failure's continued existence!  

 

I was was so excited until the DA became a murderer and was subsequently written out. What utter trash!  

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13 hours ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

- Maya's transgender story. Honestly, I think that Brad Bell and B&B did a total disservice to the LGBTQ community. He practically used us (as I'm part of the community)  for a ratings spike and dropped it quickly without exploring all it could've offered. Where was the backlash from Maya coming out? I hate how they kept it PC and safe and Maya didn't endure opposition. Bill Spencer should've been that opposition until he slowly grew to accept Maya. This story should've been a true teaching moment for viewers and it wasn't. He's an idiot of nixing this arc. 

 

 

- Going back, I'd say ATWT for not exploring Luke and Kevin at the height of that serial killer arc. There was just too much sexual tension between those 2 that it bugged me how Kevin was written off, then later brought back for stupid a** college campaign rigging story. They should've had Kevin emerge as bisexual and made him an interloper to Luke/Noah. 

Maya's story didn't even generate ratings for the show. It was a story that fizzled before it even started.

 

I always wanted a Luke and Kevin pairing. Luke was the rich kid while Kevin was the troubled drunk soul...LOL. Imagine had they became a couple and then Reid appeared and put a wedge between the two. I think that could have been a great triangle story.

8 hours ago, Markjeh said:

 

I shipped Kevin so hard omg. The actors of Luke and Kevin had so much chemistry.

Unfortunately, Jean nor Chris saw it. They could've had Kevin reject him at first and then come around to realizing he had feelings for Luke. Sigh..so many great wasted opportunities.

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One thing that contributed to turning me off to certain soaps, and I found a cop-out, was making a villain an uber-villain, like they had supernatural powers or something to terrorize the entire town. It's like "deus ex machina" except it's devil ex machina. Instead of a convenient problem-solving device, you now have a convenient problem-creating device. The character is involved in multiple stories, causing havoc and seemingly has the ability to know all the secrets, come up with these elaborate, gothic locations and situations, survive death over and over, etc. Most people seemed to love to hate characters like Mitch Laurence and Helena Cassadine. I despised them and would have enjoyed those shows more without them there.

Edited by applcin

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1 hour ago, Soapsuds said:

Maya's story didn't even generate ratings for the show. It was a story that fizzled before it even started.

 

It might not caused a huge surge in ratings, but it gained the show a lot of attention--attention the show hasn't had in decades. B&B was stupid for not exploring all the options the story provided. Had Brad possessed half the talent his father did, Maya's story could've lasted for years. 

 

In my opinion: 

 

- Rick should've reacted badly to Maya's confession. Seeing as Rick has been a hot head in recent years, I wanted him to attack Maya as that does occur to many transgender women, who come clean. Then they could've gradually brought the two back together. 

 

- Caroline loathed Maya for the longest. Why didn't Caroline be one of the few to not accept Maya and be the one to constantly call Maya 'Myron?' 

 

- Along with Caroline, Bill should've been another person not eager about Maya. He should've protested Maya being a model at Forrester or covering her in his publications out of disgust. This could've caused a rift in his marriage with Katie (instead of Brooke again). 

 

- The bathroom issue going on throughout America right now. Why hasn't this been addressed? This could've been an issue at Forrester with some of them. 

 

Brad totally missed the ball with this story. 

 

4 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Y&R- The disease of the month, which is focused on for all of a storyline then dropped with no follow up, or used as a 'go to' device when the writers run out of ideas.

  • e.g.- Nikki diagnosed with MS. Has she gone into remission? Have there been no flare ups with all the stress from the Dylan episode? We never see any indication of how Nikki is managing her MS.
  • What about Victor's 100 other ailments? Does he still suffer from epilepsy? If not, how was that resolved? Most people who resolve their seizures do so by having a less invasive form of brain surgery. Did he do this? What about his heart? His heart medicine?
  • Sharon's bi-polar has been mostly disastrously written, as a means to send her climbing the walls. We know she is taking her medication because she keeps telling us but I'm still hoping for a benign mass on her frontal lobe that can be removed by surgery. I also want it to be a slow growing tumor that started from an undiagnosed contusion she sustained after being hit by that car after she ran out into the street after discovering Nick's fling with Grace.

B&B-

  • Many have already been spoken of but dumping the Dayzee character and not exploring further a romantic relationship with Thomas Forrester. I wasn't watching a lot during this time but I've seen a few episodes and clips on You Tube. Sending her off the canvas with Marcus seemed like a big heave-ho out of the show.
  • Doing absolutely nothing with the Victor St. Lawrence character (I forget his name already). Why couldn't there be a relationship between his character and Steffi?  What is B&B so afraid of? Instead they'd rather bounce Steffi around between goofy Spencers like she's some kind of twit!

 

Thank you! 

 

I hate how Victor and Nikki's ailments have been all but forgotten now. The stress of Dylan should've had Nikki have a setback with her MS. Instead, when Nikki is stressed, they always wanna revert to the bottle with her. And these people wonder why folks don't invest in soaps nowadays. The writers sure as hell don't as they forget 90% of what the characters do. 

 

Don't get me started on Sharon. I've long wished she was misdiagnosed and it comes out she has a tumor on her brain. Giving Sharon bipolar disorder has been a disservice and insult. Every stupid thing Sharon does, the writers force Sharon to always blame her ailment. It is annoying. 

 

When it comes to a Carter/Steffi pairing, it is obvious that they are afraid to go there b/c of 'Middle America.' These shows still fear that the Bible Belt viewers will revolt. I'm over soaps being scared to progress b/c Mary Lou in Omaha is backwoods. 

 

And Dayzee settling with that big oaf, Marcus, was tragic. 

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@Soapsuds, Maya's story couldn't possibly generate a ratings bonanza when it was a 2 day PSA. Even SOAP lovers who are gay should have had a problem with that trash!  What was soapy about it?  Nothing!  Everyone admiring Maya and/or apologizing?  What kind of crap was that?  

 

That mess will go down as a huge soap cop out!  

Edited by ChitHappens

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Rick would never have recovered as a leading man if he had physically attacked Maya because if B&B ever tried a redemption story or attempted to have Maya and Rick reconcile down the line, the trans community would rightfully feel angry and betrayed. But I agree that Rick should have been more torn.

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29 minutes ago, applcin said:

One thing that contributed to turning me off to certain soaps, and I found a cop-out, was making a villain an uber-villain, like they had supernatural powers or something to terrorize the entire town. It's like "deus ex machina" except it's devil ex machina. Instead of a convenient problem-solving device, you now have a convenient problem-creating device. The character is involved in multiple stories, causing havoc and seemingly has the ability to know all the secrets, come up with these elaborate, gothic locations and situations, survive death over and over, etc. Most people seemed to love to hate characters like Mitch Laurence and Helena Cassadine. I despised them and would have enjoyed those shows more without them there.

 

Although ATWT could be guilty of this, on occasion (e.g. the (d)evolution of Tad Channing's character when they changed actors), I really have to praise ATWT for mostly humanizing their villains.  During the Marland years, he illustrated that even popular characters could occasionally descend into villainy.

 

John Dixon- was a tyrant, back in the day but most came out of the worst of it, although he could still grate in his relationship with Bob Hughes and he and Lisa used to trade barbs, he even got on his kids' nerves, and oh, who could forget his mutual blackmail exchanges with Lucinda Walsh, who he was practically enemies with months before they eloped.

Barbara Ryan- one of the All Time Great Soap Transformations. From a doormat of a young wife, to a liberated vixen. Barbara manipulated people constantly in the mid-80s and she seemed to enjoy making people (especially former lovers) suffer. Even when you couldn't stand her for her actions, the viewer was always reminded of where she came from and what motivated her to act in the ways she did.

Lucinda Walsh- also a character that just when you couldn't hate her more, you're reminded of the fact that she reacted from circumstances even though you may not understand her actions, soon as you are about to feel sorry for her, she does something else that's atrocious and you're back to not being able to stand her!

 

Unfortunately by the mid to late 90s, that type of complex villain had mostly faded on ATWT, as on other soaps. James Stenbeck, became more and more cartoonish with each appearance in the 90s, early 2000s.

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Bold and the beautiful..

 

...the fall out from the Sasha being Nicolr and maya's half sister...especially when the father blamed Maya's transition as the cause of the affair.

 

It could have opened up conflicting feelings with vivienne and Nicole...both accepting Maya.yet at the same time blaming her for being 'selfish'....and Sasha vs Maya would have been interesting to explore.

 

And we could have seen the parents being estrangef and slowly work to get back together.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Faulkner said:

@Faulkner, there are tons of ways a physical confrontational scene could have been written without Rick actually hitting Maya. Also, the trans community shouldn't be watching a soap if they don't want to see soapy stuff happen. The whole problem was that the PSA was written for the LGBT community and not soap fans. It was written in favor of how a trans person would want to be treated. Where's the fun in that?!  

 

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I didn't have that much interest in Kevin and Luke because I've seen the violent homophobe is secretly gay story so many times, but I would add one Luke story, which was his story with Brian, Lucinda's gay husband. Van Hansis and Larry Lau had chemistry and it would have been the trashy and sluttish type of behavior that Lucinda often put on her own family in the '80s. It would have caused a lot of drama and would have knocked the halo off his head.

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This was before my time but I heard that Katherine Chancellor had a relationship with a woman? Whatever became of that? Was Bell eager to forget about it or something? That would seem like a Cop-Out, I don't know about the Greatest or anything...

 

Speaking of which, Adam's duplicitous behavior concerning Rafe. Sharon was the only one who asked him straight out if he was bi-sexual, he denied it and the topic was dropped for burning fetuses in fireplaces.

It may have been interesting if Adam was non-binary but Y&R struggles in writing sexuality of all kinds, but not exploring that seemed like a Cop-Out and a sign that the writers lacked depth and awareness of issues confronting people today.

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1 hour ago, Faulkner said:

Rick would never have recovered as a leading man if he had physically attacked Maya because if B&B ever tried a redemption story or attempted to have Maya and Rick reconcile down the line, the trans community would rightfully feel angry and betrayed. But I agree that Rick should have been more torn.

 

I have to agree with what @ChitHappens says. There are ways for Rick to have lashed out and still bounced back. It is this cute, bubbly PSA type storytelling, which is why the genre is dying. Where are the days when soaps used to be gritty and used to be the trendsetters? I get that GLAAD was helping Brad piece this story together, but it ended up as crap with a bow on top of it. B&B should've taken this opportunity to tell the actual truth for many transgenders, who don't get the happy experience when coming out. 

 

11 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I didn't have that much interest in Kevin and Luke because I've seen the violent homophobe is secretly gay story so many times, but I would add one Luke story, which was his story with Brian, Lucinda's gay husband. Van Hansis and Larry Lau had chemistry and it would have been the trashy and sluttish type of behavior that Lucinda often put on her own family in the '80s. It would have caused a lot of drama and would have knocked the halo off his head.

 

I do agree that this story could've been more scandalous than it was. It should've caused a deep rift between Lucinda and Luke in the process, but it didn't. JP, CG, and Procter and Gamble stayed sleeping on the potential that Luke could've had.

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