Lapsed Viewers: What Would Lure You Back In?

[Michael]

I actually think Sex and the City is a great example of something essentially being a soap in a different package. Every single story that show did was about human relationships -- friendships, love affairs, one-night stands, in-laws. Yes, it was done with a comedic bent, and definitely reveled in being "edgy," but the tone and content weren't that far off what a soap in 2016 could be. Obviously you would need a larger canvas, more interconnectedness and generations, etc., to fill five days a week, but if a soap could pull off entertaining, thought-provoking stories that were a little more relevant to contemporary audiences, they could be thriving.

 

I don't think the SatC-ification of AMC worked well, because it was a surface-level attempt. "Let's have women being catty and quippy and talking about cosmetics!" That isn't even what SatC was really about, first of all. But I could see a *lot* of their serialized story setups working in a daytime context. Hell, I would rather watch stories of Belle and Theresa and Abigail on Days trying to navigate dating in your 20s and 30s, home/career balance, whether they want children, whether they should settle for a "good enough" guy, etc., than just cycle them through the usual soap heroine tropes so they all have babies and wealth by 25. It's that outdated approach that's (in part) suffocated soaps. Stories about pregnancies will always be as relevant as stories about death, because they're universal, but the soaps have tended in the last 15-20 years to deliver those stories as "soap tropes" rather than thoughtful explorations of that experience in fresh or fresh-seeming circumstances. We never see Gabi or Theresa really struggling to balance their careers with motherhood, which is both the definition of domestic drama and yet also relevant to a contemporary audience. 

[All My Shadows]

I completely agree with you. All the things you mentioned wanting to see on DAYS are so timeless and can be so richly entertaining if they were done right, if those things were the story. At some point, the basic human experience was deemed uninteresting enough on its own to drive story, but it's only uninteresting if you're working with half-assedly developed characters.

There were so many times in the last 5 years of AMC, ATWT, and OLTL where they almost, ALMOST, got it right, but then got it totally wrong.

[Michael]

Another thing I forgot to add above: daytime has not done a good job of keeping up in terms of sex. There's such a conservative mentality pervading all the soaps. Yeah, sometimes the scenes get racy, in a heterosexual-daytime-TV way, but like... soaps rarely acknowledge anything other than heterosexual vaginal intercourse. Not to get smutty, but think about what shows like SatC and Girls have explored in terms of sexuality. I think there's a way to address blowjobs and threesomes in a realistic, interesting way that's relevant to people watching TV in 2016 (without just being for shock value). And those are things that lots of people actually deal with in their personal lives. It creates a real distance between the characters and viewers when all we're shown is people "making love" (or being raped, ugh).

[Paul Raven]

The networks are so far away from HBO and others in terms of what is acceptable,even in primetime.

Everytime they try a cable type show,it comes off as a pale imitation.

Especially in daytime,where everything is filtered through a very conservative and outdated model. Hence characters getting married 6 or 7 times and each marriage treated as the ultimate outcome, no characters living together long term,no couples choosing to be childless, no abortions,no gay couples etc

If they went with some of this it could be the shot in the arm the shows need, rather than back from the dead and evil lookalikes.

interestingly in soaps 'heyday' these ridiculous plots were seldom used.

Look at the setup for Y&R in 73

Two families one wealthier than the other but no no means rich.

The Fosters

The weary working class mom battling to keep food on the table.

Two sons going through college and a daughter dreaming on a better life.

The Brooks

A husband and wife facing the fact that their marriage is drifting

A shy daughter lost in music.

The 'princess' daughter in love with brooding poorer guy who is casually sleeping with a waitress

etc

All of this could play today.Obviously the treatment would be different than in 73 just as Y&R was regarded as quite radical at that time.

 

[Gray Bunny]

That's a good idea. The "making love" description of sex is so outdated. It's funny though, even as a totally liberal viewer, I would be thrown off if someone like Phillip Kiriakis suddenly complimented Belle on what good head she just gave. Soaps are so sheltered/filtered from modern day lingo that we're trained to expect the fluffy terminology. 

[titan1978]

OLTL was going there with that shower set.  They had some of the sexiest scenes that I felt did push the envelope for daytime in the last two years or so before the ABC run ended.

 

Truthfully, it seems simple and stupid and easy but I think they could all be fixed with a little more care for their product.

 

Almost all of them look ugly, but GH is especially rough.  Except they do have a beautiful big and if I remember correctly permanent hospital set.  So use it you fools.

 

The plots can be ordinary or outlandish, or both.  Just as long as they aren't all ordinary, nor all outlandish.  If they are crafted with care, not sloppy and full of errors, and acted well the audience will respond!

 

Its not just the kids!  Let's never forget that Marland/Monty used Genie, Kin, and Jackie to lure in a younger audience, but the story that drove the show to number one was Lesley/Rick/Monica.  All grown asspeople with jobs, friends, exes, and often tied together because of the hospital.

 

Remember when the actual front burner characters were the people working at Kelly's?  And at Luke's. And Brenda and Lois were trying to run a record company?  And Mac and Felicia ran the outback?  And Sean and Anna had a PI business and Felicia was their assistant?  Or when Laura was Edward's Secritary? Or when we had a hospital that had doctors that specialized (like in real life) and nurses, both veteran and new?  Let's get back to that, it always added to the characters.

 

I think recasting has got to go.  I think it's one of those things that modern soaps need to move on from.  Or if they do choose to do it, rest the character for at least a year before doing it.  If your show was stronger, the loss of one actor and character would not be the end of it.  Build the show around actors that want to bet here, use them for the length of their contract, and be ready with other strong characters if they want to go.

 

No more return from the dead or who's the daddy storylines.  There are plenty of places to go without resorting to those old dogs every time.

 

i have a theory about who's the daddy stories.  I think the ratings go up because it's something building towards a climax, usually featuring characters the audience likes.  I don't think the ratings are because the trope is beloved.

 

Finally- give the audience romance.  When people are rooting for a couple to get together, they watch.

[Khan]

Stop attempting to "shock" and "surprise" the audience with in(s)ane plot twists that aren't logical or believable, let alone shocking and surprising.  Just rely on the characters, let THEM, and not their predicaments, be the thing that entices the audience.  Do that, I believe, and the audience will forgive a multitude of sins.

[QueenOfHearts]

I don't think the soaps do enough recasting.  And they definitely don't use a recast to take the character in a bether direction.  Lately it's all about the socalled name actors being placed in the roles. And  tired of hearing so and so being called a fan favorite when they don't have an effect on ratings or get an overwhelming positive response from the audience. 

[Gray Bunny]

Wait, so John-Paul Lavoisier isn't a soap opera superstar? NBC lied to me! 

[vetsoapfan]

I must say, even as the most devoted of soap fans, one who loyally tuned in to my favorite shows for more decades than I care to admit, there's probably nothing that would or could lure me back into the fold.

 

What I want to see, TPTB either cannot or do not wish to provide.

 

I am a purist who wants soaps to remain true to their origins in the sense that  I want and expect the shows to focus on the human condition, and tell multi-generational, character-driven stories based on interpersonal relationships, class struggles, family conflict, romance, and other material that remains at least within the realm of possibility. There is a huge amount of drama that can be explored by capable writers: romance (doomed, unlikely, comedic), social issues, family and relationship strife, medical crises, business intrigue, legal problems, suspense, murder mysteries, etc.; all of which can sustain a soap for decades if done right, written well, and played out by interesting, nuanced characters.

 

The soaps simply do not have the budget or the time to present tales of science fiction and adventure effectively, and I believe these absurd plots have no place in the soap opera medium. The soaps' forays into low-brow sci-fi and fantasy nonsense have been embarrassing at best and cretinous at worst. Such material briefly attracted kids and sci-fi/fantasy viewers into daytime drama a few decades ago, but these fly-by-night viewers were never actually soap fans to begin with, and they drifted away once the shows could no longer ratchet up their outrageous fantasy stories enough to keep such viewers interested. Meantime, longtime soap fans, once loyal to a medium which presented them with adult material, recognizable human drama, and familiar veteran faces, had been alienated...it seems forever.

 

Nobody would say, regarding the original STAR TREK's network run, "Hey, the ratings for this show are anemic, so let's turn it around! We'll say that the Starship Enterprise is now a popular strip-club in Hollywood, where sexy would-be STARS...TREK to support themselves while waiting for their big break! We'll replace that pointy-eared Vulcan with a buxom blonde waitress with huge honkers, and that portly captain with a shirtless hunk who loves to show off his six-pack! We'll add a laugh track to tell the audience what they are supposed to laugh at, but if none of this works, then we'll start slaughtering characters on-screen, and copy the style of FRIDAY THE 13th! And if THAT doesn't work, we'll have JAWS attack the strippers on a beach!"

 

Bastardizing the format, theme, structure, and integrity of a show is not going to salvage it., and the bastardization of the soap operas medium by incompetent PTB in the 1980s and '90s only proved that.

 

I add my vote to those who say they would willingly watch vintage episodes from the soaps' golden years, however. DAYS OUR OUR LIVES from 1966 to 1976 (the William J. Bell/Pat Falken Smith years), THE EDGE OF NIGHT as written by Henry Slesar, ANOTHER WORLD as written by Agnes Nixon and Harding Lemay, the first decade of THE YOUNG & THE RESTLESS, AS THE WORLD TURNS's first 20 years, THE GUIDING LIGHT from the 1950s to 1983...it would be heaven. But as long as the current, few remaining shows are run by producers who don't understand or care about the medium, and written by hacks who cannot write effectively, there is no incentive for me to waste my time on the currebtly-produced version of shows far beyond their expiry dates.

[zanereed]

Add my vote about my willingness to watch vintage episodes from classic years of soaps. Heck, I do it now watching old episodes of "Guiding Light" either on DVDs I've traded for or on YouTube. I guess P & G just altogether dropped the digitization of their soap archive after they took back the license from Soap Classics. Even if most of the archive I wanted to see of GL, the 1970's, is forever destroyed, I would have LOVED to see at least where their archive begins in September of 1979 through at least 1983 (before the vets were completely killed off or dismissed). Then there are the orphaned GL episodes wasting away at the UCLA archive...

 

I too would love to see the DOOL run from 1966 to 1976. I still think that entire run still exists in the Sony archives, although some only may exist in black and white.

 

At this point, I don't think there is anything the four remaining soaps could do to bring me back to watching. I briefly returned when DOOL had its umpteenth reboot (Corday always seems to draw me back in, even though I know it's just another wasted effort), but stopped again shortly thereafter.

[vetsoapfan]

Yes, YT and DVD trading are a great way for fans of vintage episodes to get our soap fix. I've been ripped off several times by "traders" in the past, so I've drifted away from that area, but there's often something interesting on YT to watch. 

 

Commercial boxsets of DARK SHADOWS and PEYTON PLACE have also been very welcome, and THE DOCTORS' return to cable was wonderful to see.

 

There are a lot of "orphaned" episodes of CBS soaps like TGL, SFT, ATWT, LOL, etc., floating around. P&G apparently did not have the original episode of SFT in its archives, but even that exists among collectors. It is claimed that all the eps of DAYS, Y&R, B&B and almost all of R'sH exist, and THE DOCTORS has miraculously popped up, so who knows what else is out there?

 

The internet poster known as Jon/saynotoyoursoap has compiled a list of the vintage AW eps still out there:

These are episodes verified to exist in museums or with private collectors:


November 9, 1964- Pat is found standing over Tom's body (kinescope)
November 10, 1964- Sgt. Adams arrives at the Matthews home to question Pat (kinescope)
November 12, 1964- Mitch Dru is summoned to represent Pat in Tom's murder (kinescope)
July 1, 1968 Walter and Lenore marry (b/w video)
July 2, 1968- Rachel and Alice meet Steve Frame at the wedding reception (b/w video)
July 3, 1968- Rachel and Steve dance at the reception (b/w video)
March 8, 1971 (1/2 inch reel)
March 16, 1971- Lenore goes into labor (1/2 inch reel)
March 24, 1971 (1/2 inch reel)
April 1, 1971 (1/2 inch reel)
April 9, 1971 (1/2 inch reel)
January 24, 1972- Walter confesses to Lenore that he murdered Wayne Addison (16mm color)
February 7, 1972- Lenore is told of Walter's death (16mm color)
March 12, 1973- Ada informs Mary that Rachel plans to marry Steve as soon as Ted divorces her. (1/2 inch reel)
March 20, 1973 -Rachel tells Gerald that she and Steve will make a family for him (1/2 inch reel)
March 28, 1973 (1/2 inch reel)
April 5, 1973 (1/2 inch reel)
April 13, 1973- Rachel and Steve are married (1/2 inch reel)
October 8, 1973- Steve tells Alice he'll get rid if there's a chance they can reconcile (16mm color)
May 3, 1974 -A drunken John disrupts Steve and Alice's wedding. (16mm color)
September 10, 1974 -John refuses to work for Steve again. (kinescope)
July 22, 1975 -Mac begs Rachel to take him back
August 15, 1975 -Mac and Rachel host a garden party
November 19, 1975- Marianne is pregnant by Chris
January 16, 1976 -Pat and John's marriage disintegrates over Marianne's abortion
May 31, 1976- Enraged, Robert destroys the sculpture of Mac
June 25, 1976- Rachel isn't happy to learn Pat is going to stay in Mac's NY townhouse
June 28, 1976- John reassures Marianne that she isn't the cause of her parents splitting up
June 29, 1976 - Dennis receives a surprise party
June 30, 1976 -Willis moves Olive into her hotel suite
November 26, 1976- Mac prepares to confess his affair with Gwen to Rachel
February 11, 1977- Jim consoles Ada over Gil's death; Pat agrees to divorce John
March 15, 1978 - Liz feels that her family is shunning her because of her meddling

 

I guess we just have to keep hoping that more treasures will turn up and be shared among fans. (I know various collectors who horde their rare episodes, because once they are widely circulated, they lose their trading value.)

[NothinButAttitude]

Ooo! I'd love to see a lot of those AW episodes. I doubt Saynotoursoap would even consider posting them on YT after they cruelly took his whole channel offline. I miss his channel so much...

[vetsoapfan]

As a (former) trader, I can tell you that sometimes trying to be generous and sharing your treasures with other soap fans just doesn't pay off. I had so many folks rip me off, take my material and sell it to other people for profit, etc., that I finally had to give up. The majority of traders may have been wonderful, but there are always a few who spoil it for everyone else, alas. I don't blame Sayno for keeping a lower profile now.

[NothinButAttitude]

I hate people that rip off those who are willing to share just to make a profit of their own. I find it gross and upsetting for us honest fans who'd love to watch and enjoy treasures like that. I HATE when people do that on YT.