edgeofnik

As The World Turns Discussion Thread

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Didn't I read somewhere that Goutman was ATWT's longest-serving EP?  If so, then it amazes me how someone so clearly wrong for the job was allowed to stay on for so long.

Edited by Khan

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38 minutes ago, Khan said:

Didn't I read somewhere that Goutman was ATWT's longest-serving EP?  If so, then it amazes me how someone so clearly wrong for the job was allowed to stay on for so long.

 

It was because they didn't care anymore. Shameful.

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58 minutes ago, Khan said:

Didn't I read somewhere that Goutman was ATWT's longest-serving EP?  If so, then it amazes me how someone so clearly wrong for the job was allowed to stay on for so long.

 

According to Wiki, he unfortunately was. Laurence Caso, who was 2nd longest reigning was only there for 8 years. I have the same sentiments as @DRW50 that it was shameful how long he lasted. After Hogan left, he should've left with him. I think all those EMMY wins he got secured him at the show.

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7 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

It was because they didn't care anymore. Shameful.

 

I cannot stress how true this is. By 2001, P&G had a laissez-faire attitude, that became even more indifferent as the years went by until cancellation. 

I'll never forget my conversation with someone in their NYC production offices as a graduate student, it was clear they didn't give a f*ck.

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10 hours ago, Nothin'ButAttitude said:

 

CZ must've not liked Babs/Gunnar pairing?

 

That's what Soapsuds said back a page. It's the first I've heard about it. My guess would be it was a) horribly written (as a lot of their romance was in that weird 1700's costume crap) or  b ) just such a brief time in Babs' history for CZ.  I know peeps didn't buy the romance with Henry, but I see why it appealed to CZ. After everything that had been thrown at her, and as a "mature" woman to get a romance at the end instead of warehoused.

 

Now, I know there was tension between CZ and Ben Hendrickson through much of the Hal/Barb story---which breaks my heart, because I loved them so much at the time. (Finding out GL's Aleksander and Ehlers didn't get along either completely changed my perception of Philip/Harley too.)

 

Another reason to cling to my Carjack love---'cause Mikey and Mojo adore each other. :D

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Was it Hugo Napier that Lucci didn't get along with on AMC or was that the guy who played Kent Bogard? I can't remember.

 

Ben Hendrickson seemed like he had quite a few struggles and I get the feeling CZP wasn't exactly low-maintenance, but the tensions never showed onscreen, and I thought she'd spoken positively about him and the Barbara/Hal pairing. I might be wrong though.

 

I think she may have just been so happy to have a story again (and a fairly big story) in ATWT's last year that it colors her memories. I know a lot of people didn't care for it but it was probably the most I'd enjoyed Barbara since the mid-90s, as I found Sheffer's camp queen version of her intolerable viewing.

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11 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

This is one of the reasons I would leave negative comments in those ponderous "ATWT's final weeks are so superb and so superior to GL's" articles at DC, because they seemed to think it was so brave to have no returns, to kill Reid, and so on. No returns wasn't brave, it was just typical Goutman arrogance, as he clearly thought his ATWT was the only ATWT. 

 

I know why people were disappointed by GL's returns, as many felt like drive-bys and certainly someone like Maureen Garrett deserved more, but I appreciated them because I felt like it was at least an ATTEMPT to understand what older viewers wanted and an ATTEMPT to let us say goodbye. And some of those moments, like Nola's look back at Company and Bill and Fletcher saying they missed Ben, meant more to me than anything on GL had in probably about 10-15 years. 

.

 

I love you---but you're insane. :D

 

"Disappointed" is about three levels of Hell higher than the crap Wheeler churned out as her "tribute" to GL. She didn't just get people for the finale---she had people back for months (like Krista Tesearu) and still wasted episodes with Frank, Matt and Rick wandering around a damn "mini-mart" seeing how many "wiener" jokes they could stuff into an hour while ogling newly lesbian Olivia.

 

I wouldn't have called ATWT's last weeks "superb"----but it was damn well better than putting lipstick on a skunk and pretending that the stuff on screen was more interesting that what was alluded to off-screen. 'Cause that's where 99.99% of Billy and Vanessa's reunion happened, in spite of being the "centerpiece" of the finale. 

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On 4/5/2017 at 9:13 AM, Scrapple said:

I would've done a couple things:

1) Have Simon come back for Katie. Hooking her up with Chris was ridiculous.

 

2) Bring back Martha Byrne , even if a ghostly Rose appearance. She was the first woman to win a Lead Actress Emmy, and was a vital part of the show's history.

 

3) Give Henry and Vienna a proper goodbye (Henry could've stayed with Barbara, but H & V should've had one parting scene).

 

4)Have SOME final scenes for Lisa. Although I've never been an Eileen Fulton fan, her character was integral to the show's past. The way she was written at the end was humiliating.

 

5) The show should have brought back fan favorites at the end, instead of bringing on newbies nobody cared about. How about a Snyder Family reunion? What about Duncan, Shannon, Penny?

    It was like the show was ending after 5 years, not 54.

 

As to your second point, in case everyone isn't aware, Noelle Beck did offer to step down when she found out ATWT was canceled.  She was willing to leave the show so Martha could come back and finish the story for the fans.  It was the [!@#$%^&*] Goutman who simply refused to let that happen.  I had read all of this as a rumor but had it confirmed from Martha herself when I had drinks with her last year.  I only say this because Noelle Beck had been on soaps for years and she understood how connected fans are to their shows.  I think that's such a wonderful and classy move to offer to put yourself out of a job a few months early so that the fans could finish with the Lily they knew for decades.  Goutman really didn't give a crap about the fans. I blame him and him alone for the destruction of the show. (And this is coming from someone who started watching just before Sheffer and LOVED LOVED LOVED Sheffer's work and those years on the show.)  That's not true though, I blame Passante as well - what a crappy head writer.  I think the only one worse is Leah Laiman!

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3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Was it Hugo Napier that Lucci didn't get along with on AMC or was that the guy who played Kent Bogard? I can't remember.

 

Ben Hendrickson seemed like he had quite a few struggles and I get the feeling CZP wasn't exactly low-maintenance, but the tensions never showed onscreen, and I thought she'd spoken positively about him and the Barbara/Hal pairing. I might be wrong though.

 

I think she may have just been so happy to have a story again (and a fairly big story) in ATWT's last year that it colors her memories. I know a lot of people didn't care for it but it was probably the most I'd enjoyed Barbara since the mid-90s, as I found Sheffer's camp queen version of her intolerable viewing.

Marland's vixen/diva version of Barbara was great. Sheffer's camp queen version made BarBar a cartoon.

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10 minutes ago, adrnyc said:

 

As to your second point, in case everyone isn't aware, Noelle Beck did offer to step down when she found out ATWT was canceled.  She was willing to leave the show so Martha could come back and finish the story for the fans.  It was the [!@#$%^&*] Goutman who simply refused to let that happen.  I had read all of this as a rumor but had it confirmed from Martha herself when I had drinks with her last year.  I only say this because Noelle Beck had been on soaps for years and she understood how connected fans are to their shows.  I think that's such a wonderful and classy move to offer to put yourself out of a job a few months early so that the fans could finish with the Lily they knew for decades.  Goutman really didn't give a crap about the fans. I blame him and him alone for the destruction of the show. (And this is coming from someone who started watching just before Sheffer and LOVED LOVED LOVED Sheffer's work and those years on the show.)  That's not true though, I blame Passante as well - what a crappy head writer.  I think the only one worse is Leah Laiman!

 

The thing with ATWT is I don't think it was ever gutted or eviscerated the way many soaps were. I personally think the show was often unwatchable after 1995 (and FMB, then Goutman, blew chances to rebuild the show), but that was just my own personal taste - many other viewers still could have enjoyed it. The building blocks were still there. It's just that they didn't bother to use them. What worked with ATWT was community, continuity, history, family. While there were big mistakes made which undercut this (like getting rid of all of Bob and Kim's children), they weren't killed off, as you see on some soaps. They weren't ruined, turned into rapists or married 50 times and given 6 children each. The vets remained intact, for the most part. 

 

ATWT withered away because no one cared. In some ways that makes it all the more depressing. 

 

I think Noelle may have mentioned that about Martha in the goodbye ATWT book, as she also spoke about what a hard time Jon Hensley had. I thought it was typical petty Goutman right to the end. 

11 minutes ago, P.J. said:

 

I wouldn't have called ATWT's last weeks "superb"----but it was damn well better than putting lipstick on a skunk and pretending that the stuff on screen was more interesting that what was alluded to off-screen. 'Cause that's where 99.99% of Billy and Vanessa's reunion happened, in spite of being the "centerpiece" of the finale. 

 

Honestly I struggle to remember most of ATWT's last weeks. I remember a lot of Dusty/Janet (ugh) and the Reid stuff, which I loathed. I thought the goodbye to Nancy was decent enough, if not what it should have been. My main memories are of so many things they could have done easily and simply and just didn't bother with. 

Edited by DRW50

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12 hours ago, P.J. said:

What really, really surprises me is that Scott DeFrietas didn't make a return at some point. Between Chris' illness, Julianne's return and Nancy's death...and the fact his wife still worked there...you'd think someone might have at least thought to ask him.

 

 

Ask James & Kassie DePaiva how that worked out when OLTL left ABC in 2012. Yep, still bitter. 

 

(JDP was on the show WAY before KDP, and despite fan interest in bringing him back for the end, wasn't never even asked to return. So it's sort of similar to the Maura and Scott situation here.)

 

Anyway, I was just passing by of curiosity here, and noticed that. Carry on. :) 

 

ETA: I lied. One more thing. :D

 

The idea about Tom & Margo and their various and sundry actors passing through sounds great, but with HBS still on OLTL at the time, securing that for her, even for a few seconds/minutes, might have been impossible. 

Edited by MissLlanviewPA

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8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Was it Hugo Napier that Lucci didn't get along with on AMC or was that the guy who played Kent Bogard? I can't remember.

 

It was Lee Godart (Kent) that Susan Lucci didn't get along with.

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8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Was it Hugo Napier that Lucci didn't get along with on AMC or was that the guy who played Kent Bogard? I can't remember.

 

Ben Hendrickson seemed like he had quite a few struggles and I get the feeling CZP wasn't exactly low-maintenance, but the tensions never showed onscreen, and I thought she'd spoken positively about him and the Barbara/Hal pairing. I might be wrong though.

 

I think she may have just been so happy to have a story again (and a fairly big story) in ATWT's last year that it colors her memories. I know a lot of people didn't care for it but it was probably the most I'd enjoyed Barbara since the mid-90s, as I found Sheffer's camp queen version of her intolerable viewing.

 

It was both.  SuLu preferred working with Nicolas Surovy (Mike #1) and she didn't care for Michael Woods (Kent #1) OR Lee Godart (Kent #2).

 

Barbara's redemption was probably one of the few things I enjoyed about the last year or so of ATWT.  It just broke my heart to see what Sheffer had turned her into.  Heck, I didn't even like the idea of Douglas Marland turning her briefly into a rhymes-with-stitch.  I just never saw Barbara Ryan that way.

8 hours ago, P.J. said:

I know peeps didn't buy the romance with Henry, but I see why it appealed to CZ. After everything that had been thrown at her, and as a "mature" woman to get a romance at the end instead of warehoused.

 

Yeah, but...Henry was just so...fey.  Know what I mean?  Like, it made Barbara look more like a fag hag than a cougar.  If she was going to end up with any man, younger or not, it needed to be someone who came across as being more masculine.  [!@#$%^&*], even Casey would have been more palatable to me.

8 hours ago, adrnyc said:

 

As to your second point, in case everyone isn't aware, Noelle Beck did offer to step down when she found out ATWT was canceled.  She was willing to leave the show so Martha could come back and finish the story for the fans.  It was the [!@#$%^&*] Goutman who simply refused to let that happen.  I had read all of this as a rumor but had it confirmed from Martha herself when I had drinks with her last year.  I only say this because Noelle Beck had been on soaps for years and she understood how connected fans are to their shows.  I think that's such a wonderful and classy move to offer to put yourself out of a job a few months early so that the fans could finish with the Lily they knew for decades.  Goutman really didn't give a crap about the fans. I blame him and him alone for the destruction of the show. (And this is coming from someone who started watching just before Sheffer and LOVED LOVED LOVED Sheffer's work and those years on the show.)  That's not true though, I blame Passante as well - what a crappy head writer.  I think the only one worse is Leah Laiman!

 

Oh, no.  Stephen Black and Henry Stern will always be ATWT's worst HW's.

 

I, too, commend Noelle Beck for offering to step aside and allow Martha Byrne to finish Lily and Holden's story.  I know some might wonder why NB stayed on anyway after Goutman refused to bring back MB, but as I see it, it was better to have those final moments (such as they were) between Holden and Lily with SOMEone as Lily rather than Lily suddenly disappear for the show's final weeks.

Edited by Khan

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