As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[slick jones]

At 42:24, I think this is Mona Simms, later murdered but followed Frannie for her nephew Peter Marsden. 

@danfling do you recognize this actress? She looks familiar

 

[P.J.]

*waves* Damn right I hated Rose and the accent she rode in on. Not because I loved Lily (who had degenerated into the lowest form of twitdom---ugh, I remember being done with the bitch the minute she handed over Hope without even bothering to tell Holden--aka, the man who'd truly bonded with that child for a year while Lily was going through her baby blues or whatever---over to that crackhead bitch that sold her baby to David Freakin' Stenbeck.

I hated Rose because she ate the goddamn show. They served up that cutie-patootie Paul (Hoylrod) up on a platter to that aging showgirl. That's reason enough. (*teehee* it feels good to vent. )

 

YEP! *stands up to be counted* That twit and her fairytale stories.....BARF.

The kid Jack chases and then tries to save off the pier? Yep, that's the same kid.

[P.J.]

Part of the reason Steve "took off" was obviously the pairing with Betsy. But also I think there was a bit of fascination with Greece and the Greek culture in the '70's-early'80's in general, due to the Jackie Kennedy/Ari Onassis marriage. Sure, in retrospect, he comes off as an overbearing chauvinist pig (and his brother Nick wasn't any better with Kim), but at the time, he was a character that shook up whitebread Oakdale. 

[DramatistDreamer]

If you watch those scenes with Meg Ryan and Frank Runyeon, it was obvious that they had chemistry. The 80s was the era of the Supercouple (for better or for worse) so every soap had to have it's own Luke and Laura, I guess. When I saw that profile of Meg Ryan on CBS Sunday Morning a few weeks ago, I was reminded that Steve and Betsy's wedding was the 2nd most watched soap wedding in all of daytime (2nd to You Know Who), so it drew pretty big ratings, which probably made Runyeon feel like the goose that laid the golden egg.  Once Meg Ryan left and writers decided to mature Betsy with the Lindsey Frost iteration (they had to keep up with the times), I think they could find little for Steve to do and it didn't help that they had written the Steve character into a corner.

 

As much as I adore ATWT, for a significant length of time, the show did have a weakness in terms of writing for ethnic characters, except for Jessica, who at first seemed like a reiteration of Heather's character, and Lien Hughes this weakness continued pretty much throughout the show's history.

[P.J.]

Because Lucinda had walked all over John, lying her ass off to him. The breaking point (IIRC) was her trying to ship Duke out of town, right? Or was it the Holden thing? I think by the time they could have maybe reunited them, the "family" dynamic they had with all the assorted family members bunking at the Walsh estate at one time or another had disbanded. Lily was gone, Andy was living with Julie and boozing, Duke obviously couldn't live with Lucinda, etc.

Plus, Lisa Brown and Bryggman were dating and Iva and John hooked up. Then Marland died, and both Lucinda and John moved on.

[DRW50]

It was a combo of bringing in Julie + bringing in John's sleazy brother and bribing them both to try to get Duke out of town and then finally getting Brock Lombard's father to lie that John wasn't Duke's biological father. I think Marland knew Lucinda worked best when she was knocked down and had to pick herself back up. Losing John and later the company did that. The unfortunate side effect was that John was stranded as a character.

The show had a thin slate of men around the time Steve came in. Watching some of the late 79/early 80 episodes, for younger men it was mostly Tom (who isn't that bad but I guess was dumped by the Dobsons for not being exciting enough), and Jeff, who was always landlocked in the story of the many Annies. Otherwise it was Don, Bob, John, Grant, all of a certain age, and Jay, who was on his way out. I have no idea if Brad was popular (he repulses me), and I have no idea if Nick was (my mother always liked Nick and Kim together, but I know Kathryn Hays said she got hate mail for the pairing). 

 

I haven't seen any of Carol's relationship with Steve, but that was his first real relationship on the show, and I get the impression Carol was pretty popular with viewers. 

 

I have to admit Betsy and Steve don't do anything for me, although they do have chemistry. I'm not sure if Betsy was matured when Meg left or if they tried to write Betsy the same way but Lindsay Frost wasn't that type of actress. The bits of the show I've seen up to early '85 still have Betsy written as somewhat subservient to Steve and in peril, and so on. It seemed like with Marland we got more of her career and they also started pushing the Betsy/Craig stuff a lot more. 

[P.J.]

Wow---I have zero recollection of John having a brother on the show. Or of Brock having something to do with Duke's story. Thanks for filling me in.

Re: Steve. I remember being caught up in Steve and Betsy's romance and thinking Craig was just short of the devil for keeping them apart. But I also think that my POV has evolved a lot, as has the viewerships' in general. Sure, Steve got more overbearing after  they married and after Ryan left to cause some kind of tension in their marriage, but we're also looking back at behavior that would either be a bad example or completely unrootable (couple-wise) on soaps today.

[DRW50]

I think part of it is that, as Mitch said, there was no real opposition to Steve. There's an episode on YT I think from 1984 (?) where Steve is just berating Kim and she doesn't make a peep, which was not in character for her at all. I can see why the relationship was popular and why Steve was popular - I guess it's part the surroundings that drag them down for me.

 

I mostly remember some of the Duke details because I marathoned a lot of summer 1989 episodes a few years ago. That was when Pam was about to leave, and when Julie first popped up.

 

Lucinda was desperate beyond belief with the Lombard stuff. She told Philip Lombard that if he lied for her she'd use the City Times to champion him while he was on trial for Brock's murder. Needless to say, this did not pan out, and he spitefully told John everything. 

[NothinButAttitude]

All this talk about John just depresses me as it reminds me what could of been. 

 

I still find it horrible that they got rid of a viable character like him when they did. With Dusty and Margo already on the canvas, they could've recast Duke, brought back Andy, and SORASED MJ and gave John a nice family unit that could've provided him tons of material. 

 

Plus, Lisa and Lucinda could've both drifted back to John. Hell, it would've been fun to watch those two compete for John's affection given that they were once enemies. 

 

So many missed opportunities.

[DramatistDreamer]

What year did Larry Brygmann leave ATWT? It's weird that P&G couldn't negotiate favorable terms (maybe more flexibilty for him to do more stage work and indie films?) but soaps are not known for great decision-making. They claim they couldn't afford to keep him but over the next several years proceed to bring in characters that most fans cared little for like the Ciccones.

 

Not sure, though, that I could stomach Lisa and Lucinda going at it for John's affections though.  It would have to be something bigger like control of a business but maybe somehow John gets the idea that they are competing for him until it is revealed not to be the case.

 

In order to make use of John's family, ATWT would've needed to have a headwriter who actually cared about the show's history and they clearly didn't. The last two headwriters didn't give a damn about that stuff.  As well as Hogan Sheffer started out, he thought he was writing All My Children half the time and he could've cared less about long-time character's personal histories.

[DRW50]

2004, wasn't it? 

 

I think he was kind of done with the show anyway. 

[DramatistDreamer]

 

 

Oh, okay. That makes sense. By the end of the 90s, ATWT had long since ceased the caliber of storytelling it had once been known for. By the early 00s, the show had descended into mostly one-liners, zingers and side gags . 

 

I'll never forget that scene where Barbara does her best Groucho Marx impersonation before jumping out of window and thinking "What did I just watch?!" 

Edited September 25, 2016 by DramatistDreamer

[NothinButAttitude]

@DramatistDreamer I don't think it would've been strange for Lisa/Lucinda to fight for John's affection as they both have history with them. I think a business deal could've heightened the drama, but I don't think it would've been farfetched for the women. I would've enjoyed it. 

 

It just pisses me off on how many missed stories and opportunities this show failed to tell in its last decade due to poor management.

[DramatistDreamer]

I don't think it would've been far-fetched either but personally, the image of two mature women fighting over John, I wouldn't be interested but that's only my opinion. @Nothin'ButAttitude' Others may be though and I'm not going to dimish the entertainment possibilities.

[NothinButAttitude]

I think if it was rooted in light-heartedness and not having them demean themselves, them fighting over John would've been OK and entertaining. It would've given them all something to do instead of being wise sages that were brought out the veterans closet every blue moon.