HBO: Game of Thrones

[YRBB]

Lovelies, PLEASE, for OCD's sake, it's RamsAy!!

 

No, it's really not. Those are the show's leading men, and they are all straight, manly, good fighters and written with sympathy, despite often questionable actions. I think we can agree about the cowardice of the Red Wedding etc but that's a whole different thing, and interpretation, than what I'm talking about. One certainly can't use that to justify the treatment of Loras. You'll notice I didn't mention Ramsay, because he's Ramsay, but in the end he's also yet another accomplished manly fighter and they've made a point of showing his sex life as well. As for Jaime, that was a storyline and character behavior that made absolute sense. Again, doesn't defend what has been done with Loras. But I hope you are right and they undo some of the destruction they've done to him... although, as things stand now, he'll get killed after several seconds of him crying and begging them to spare him.

 

LOL Well, to each their own on the Arya front. I was only talking about how the naysayers were wrong.

 

On the other hand, Jon's been in fights/wars. He knows that, if this gets started, it will be long, painful and bloody. Sansa is coming from a purely vengeful place -- very justifiably so, but she does not have Jon's war experience and a firm grasp on just how much this is going to suck. He just wanted to be done. It was a beat, a quick one at that, and I thought it was utterly necessary for the story.

 

 

 

GOT has always been about the journey and not the destination. I suppose she should have miraculously acquired an army in season 2 and been at KL by finale? And, then what? We end the show there?

 

I kid but, seriously, this is not network TV fantasy fantasy. Dany was a nobody woman. Every bitter step of the way was to show the battle to get to the point where she is now. Perhaps most important of all was not to get the army but to win the support and love of all those cities and people before attempting Westeros. That way, she has that power behind her, on top of her army. And we've seen how that's not easy. How does the end of season 1 dovetail into her being where she is now? The scenes consciously echoed one another but where Dany is, in terms of development, is miles and miles ahead.

 

And everyone I've spoken to thinks it's better than ever. It's all on the eye of the beholder. All I will say is this: Before, it was too slow. Now, it's too fast. Before, people cried buckets that Robb was killed off, now they complain because Jon wasn't. But most never stop watching. I mean, really.

 

It took four episodes for the show to reach the decision to assassinate HS. Four. And, while Sansa was travelling, Arya was clearly shown going from useless blinded girl to actually good fighter. Time elapsed. Are we watching the same show?  

 

 

Yep.

[Toups]

Fantastic episode, especially the ending with Dany burning all those Dothraki men and then walking out of the fire.  I love it whenever she spews her "Mother of Dragons" speech because she can back it up.  She took over the Dothraki people in such an epic way!

 

Yup! I agree, I don't see Dany being in the same place as season 1.  She's amassing this huge army throughout her journey back to Westeros.  

 

I've been enjoying this season more because it feels like they're leading up to something big and that there's actual movement.

 

 

[YRBB]

A feeling, I think, that is also exacerbated by Season 5, which really, actually did try to stall things.

[quartermainefan]

 

It seems to me we've heard her song before--more frequently than a #1 song on a top 40 radio station.   She literally talks the talk but after five years she has yet to walk the walk.   Now more people are bowing to her?   We saw this same exact scene in year 1, year 2, I think year 3 and again in year 4.       I guess it comes down to whether you like Danerys or not.   I think I realized she was FF material season 3.    I used to love Arya but her entire story in the city of the faceless church is another waste of time.    

 

 

 

 

[Vee]

I think Season 5 was the show's weakest by far. While I think Jon's saga finally hit high gear there and was excellent throughout, the Faith Militant story was far too rushed and cartoonish, elements of Sansa's story were definitely unnecessary, Arya's went nowhere and Dorne - just no.

 

I think this season is very, very good so far. Even scenes and stories too many people dismiss, like the crooked King's Landing/Lannister diplomacy Tyrion introduces to Daenerys' previously ideologically pure revolution in Meereen, then debates with Grey Worm and Missandei, crackle with impact and nuance for me. I'll talk more about the rest of last week's episode later (I'm just now getting to it), but I'll probably just be repeating everyone else re: stuff like Sansa and Jon, Daenerys, etc. Sophie Turner and Kit Harington were beautiful together.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Vee

[Vee]

So a few other things - Speaking of exciting diplomacy: The 'not a Small Council meeting' Small Council meeting with Cersei and Jaime finally cutting the [!@#$%^&*] and getting down to the real business with Kevan and Olenna was the smartest thing the Lannisters have done in probably years. I didn't know Cersei had it in her, though I am sure she is planning a swerve. The grudging moment of respect, or at least grim understanding, between Cersei and Olenna was well-earned. I daren't hope that ever happen for Cersei and Margaery, but I loved when she told Tommen it didn't matter if she hated Margaery.

 

Robin Arryn is so damn crazy. I never tire of his wacky appearances, but I am glad Littlefinger made the shrewd move re: the Vale riding for Castle Black. Though he clearly plans to depose Jon and Sansa, his alliance of convenience is absolutely necessary for the moment to take Ramsay down. That's what all this is building to, that's why they've amped his evil up way past 11, that's what Osha died for. Speaking of Osha, I always loved her but I knew death would likely come sooner or later, especially if she crossed paths with the Boltons while protecting Rickon. Osha was a warrior and she died in service ot what she chose to stand for, which is the best death you can get on GOT - and not one many do. 

 

The High Sparrow scenes with Jonathan Pryce were mesmerizing as always, even if I tired of this plotline almost from the beginning because it was so rushed last year. It's better this year, but I never want Margaery to break.

 

 I have a difference of opinion on Loras though, which is not news to anyone. I liked Loras and saw potential in the character, but I also always saw him as a dilettante and somewhat flighty - heroic and dashing, yes, but he never shook off his privileged life and trappings with his family or his easy relationship with Renly (as evidenced in his earliest scenes) and their naive approach to winning the Seven Kingdoms. There are many, many characters on GOT who were simply not suited for the cutthroat world of Westeros, be they heterosexual, gay, or in-between, and Loras is just one of thousands who never been suited for the gamesmanship of King's Landing.

 

Do I think Loras could get there someday? Yes. Would I like to see more heroic gay characters on the show who are less flighty than Loras? Absolutely. And I do think it's unfortunate that the balance has shaken out that way but I have to put at least a good portion of that responsibility on the source text which gave us all of these characters. Further, that regret for lack of more options doesn't mean I feel that Loras' portrayal is wrong or unfair, or a joke - I don't think he's a joke character. I think he's just always been a somewhat privileged and naive person with a good heart, and he's far from the only character portrayed as that. I have laughed at his expense at times but it was never about him being gay. I don't find him a stereotype, just sometimes clueless; I don't think Oberyn was a joke, and I do think he was heroic. And I'd like to see Loras turn it around on the Faith Militant, sure, and prove his worth. But I think he's more likely just one of many characters on the show (including Tommen, at the moment, who rules Westeros) who is not equal to the task. And I don't find that phobic, I just find it real. I also have seen absolutely zero evidence that the show favors the Faith Militant's anti-gay bigotry. I think that's ludicrous.

 

Nobody needs to hear me add to the choir on Jon and Sansa - wonderful stuff, and I half-feared they wouldn't do it. I'm also glad they introduced the ticking clock on Davos and Melisandre re: Shireen and the fate of the Baratheon line. When he learns the truth he'll kill her on the spot. Also great was the Pink Letter, where the unsettling, childlike repetition ("come and see") reminded me of some of the old correspondence from the Zodiac Killer, or Son of Sam.

 

I am loving what they're doing here with Theon and the Iron Islands, not something I ever thought I'd say about the larger Greyjoy family. That scene with Yara and Theon was quite emotional. And yes, I am absolutely on the Tormund/Brienne train. Get it, Tormund! I do think there's a lot of real heroes on the show - Jon is one kind, Sansa and Brienne are another, even Tormund is one, and now so too is Theon, redeemed in his own way.

 

I am glad Daenerys finally ended the Dothraki roadshow. As she told them, what were they going to accomplish out there? Jack !@#$%^&*]. Her walking out of the fire this time was shades of Akira.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Vee

[Vee]

Oh, forgot to mention: Pycelle's loooong walk out of Tommen's chamber reminded me of nothing less than the infamous scene of the old bank teller walking across the bank veeerryyyy slowly in the famous David Lynch-directed finale of Twin Peaks.

 

Also:

 

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Edited May 22, 2016 by Vee

[Juliajms]

I'm kind of dreading tonight's episode. I don't think the confrontation with the High Sparrow is going to go well. He's too cagey to be taken out easily.

[Vee]

The best laid plans rarely do on GOT. I am holding out for Margaery stabbing him in the neck in Episode 9.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Umm yeah this is the one time I'll say this....but that was a superb episode....that ending. 

 

Intense....

[YRBB]

Devastating. I loved everything. How fun was the play within the show? The Kingmoot was everything I wanted it to be. How interesting that Sansa lied to Jon and that Littlefinger introduced the possibility that Jon may betray her? Brienne and Tormund made me laugh so hard. That little moment of Jon smiling at Sansa's gift. I thought Jorrah & Dany were heartbreaking but that ending scene... it just tore me apart. What an awesome explanation and what a sad end.

 

It was so wonderful that we got an explanation on the Children and the creation of the Night Walkers, not to mention the origins of Hodor... but at what a price! And the fact that Bran was behind the start of Hodor and the end of Hodor. Absolutely gutting. Also, the fact that Bran has the ability to change the past in some way is of humongous importance. One can't even imagine how that will play out!

Edited May 23, 2016 by YRBB

[quartermainefan]

Poor Hodor, he was the most good, most innocent character of the entire show.   Bran just had to go sticking his nose in where he was told not to--dumb Bran!  I first felt sad Bran's wolf got it, but this was maybe the saddest moment of the entire show to date.   There was something a little unethical about the whole thing, in that it almost seems like Bran warged Hodor to sacrifice his own life instead of running.   I guess there would be no running if Hodor hadn't done what he done, but it was a touch self serving.     And now that girl is going to have to wheel Bran around on her own, she weighs four pounds.

 

Out of curiosity, is this the way it looks like it will play out in the books?   How far astray do book readers think this whole thing has gotten?

[Vee]

Not even reading this page yet, but livid because I was reading post-finale articles on EW.com for another show - only to get an extremely leading 'careful' headline on tonight's GOT which basically telegraphed what to expect and for who. I am so angry. Not at the show, but at that [!@#$%^&*] website.

[Vee]

That was fantastic BTW, from head to toe. Especially Sansa and Brienne, lady strategists and HBICs at Castle Black.

 

The opening scene with Littlefinger and Sansa may have been a very deliberate choice by the showrunners to make right the issue from last year, but it was also very, very good. I wish Carl was still watching because Sophie Turner has become the heart of this show and its true queen of the North and Westeros, and she carries it effortlessly. What an amazing woman she's become, and Sansa too.

 

A few other interesting swerves: Jorah apparently not consigned to death just yet, being ordered to find a cure. I didn't expect that. Daenerys' handling of him was touching and beautiful. Whether or not he survives, the show is choosing life and change and evolution in a lot of ways with a lot of people this year - Sansa, Brienne, Jon, Bran, Jorah, even Arya (more on her in a minute) and it feels very right for the show.

 

I didn't think anyone could shake Varys, and was shocked this new fire priestess did. I hope all this [!@#$%^&*] with the Lord of Light is leading somewhere real, since this woman and Melisandre are clearly true believers.

 

The Kingsmoot was different. I love that Theon and Yara's bond is so tight, and I want to see where it's all going. That they tied the Iron Islands in to Daenerys is especially interesting. A picture is forming.

 

I will sheepishly admit i misread the leading headlines on EW.com - I thought Bran was going to bite it tonight and was pretty pissed, while watching that great final scene just waiting for the bottom to drop out. It didn't feel right for him to go yet and thank god he didn't. I had expected Hodor's origins to be something like this but I didn't expect it to happen here - I was so worried for Bran I didn't see it coming. Wonderful exit, and great work by the actresses playing the Children of the Forest, as well as Ellie Kendrick as Meera. And then there were two. As I have always been Team Bran, I am glad they're in it to win it.

[Juliajms]

I do think GRRM probably told the writers how Hodor got that name, so that much is probably going to stay true in the books. I'd say in the books and the show Hodor is/will be crucial to saving all of humanity.  Overall, I'm guessing the show and the books will not resemble each other much starting with this season.

 

For one thing GRRM is notorious for changing his mind. He releases chapters before the book and they've been known to change significantly just in the years it takes to write that one book. So even if he's told the writers certain things, I have no reason to think he won't change his mind before any of the remaining books go to print.  Also, there are a lot of ways the show has deviated from the books already, Sansa's story is completely different. There are a ton of major characters and storylines that aren't happening on the show. Understandably, imo.

 

I barely got to feel bad about Summer before it became clear that poor Hodor was done for. Did we see for sure that Hodor's eyes were white when he was holding the door? If Bran had control it doesn't seem like Meera  would have been screaming hold the door. I'll have to watch again to see, I was too in the moment to even think about it.

 

At first I thought it mattered that Bran can change the past, but now I wonder. Notice he did change the past, but not the present. I do believe Ned heard him at the Tower of Joy, but I don't believe he can go back and tell the Starks not to leave Winterfell and that the change will ripple through time. I sort of wish it would work out that way though.

 

I hope Sansa doesn't regret sending Little Finger away or not telling Jon the truth, although could it ever be a mistake to turn that SOB away?

 

Poor Jorah, I felt bad for him. We know the cure is out there, so I hope he finds it in time.