[Scotty]

Discussion for the week November 16

[CarlD2]

TC, on 18 November 2009 - 05:30 PM, said:

ABC felt it necessary to give the whiney Forbes March fans their pound of flesh??

I think the rotting corpse tells us how ABC felt about the Nash character.

This is probably more about John needing a story. Notice that Jared's death is as much about his pain as it is about Natalie losing her husband.

I wish Matthew hadn't forgiven Bo and Nora so quickly. I think it just points out again how there often is not fallout in these stories, it's just a plot point. I guess the show only had them put Matthew there so he could meet the overaged miracle child, so they want us to know they aren't at fault.

Speaking of Danielle, I guess saying, "I'm not 8" is supposed to be a wink to her real age, but I thought it just reinforced how ridiculous this is. Between this and her instadislike for Todd, based on a phone conversation (at least wait until he nearly kills you, Danielle), she is all contrivance and no character.

[All My Shadows]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't get the whole "John needs a story" thing. I feel that John's been marginalized for the better part of the last two years now, and any time they bring him to the forefront, it's not for long.

[CarlD2]

All My Shadows, on 18 November 2009 - 06:20 PM, said:

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't get the whole "John needs a story" thing. I feel that John's been marginalized for the better part of the last two years now, and any time they bring him to the forefront, it's not for long.

I think the problem may be that RC may not be overly fond of the character, but Frons is. That's why we get the push/pull of Tarty overload, which RC seemed to love, and then the quick, mostly offcamera relationship between Marty and John.

Now Frons has thrown down the gauntlet with Brotherton's firing. My guess is this was to reinforce John's place on the canvas. Natalie, if she gets story, may have to be about debasing herself for John, like the old days.

[Cheap21]

This seems like a complete rehash of how John and Natalie first started. Natalie's husband dies and she blames and hates John for it. She eventually lets it go, and falls for him. This really doesnt seem much different from the Cris situation.

[CarlD2]

Cheap21, on 18 November 2009 - 07:07 PM, said:

This seems like a complete rehash of how John and Natalie first started. Natalie's husband dies and she blames and hates John for it. She eventually lets it go, and falls for him. This really doesnt seem much different from the Cris situation.

I'd rather have seen her drawn towards Cristian again, who was her safe harbor back when everyone in Llanview hated her. This would cause complications for Cris and Layla.

[Cheap21]

CarlD2, on 18 November 2009 - 08:19 PM, said:

I'd rather have seen her drawn towards Cristian again, who was her safe harbor back when everyone in Llanview hated her. This would cause complications for Cris and Layla.

Cris went downhill the moment they broke him and Nat up to put her with John. She didnt fair too well from that either. Too bad they dont have anymore scenes bc I would have rather seen your scenario play out

[CarlD2]

Cheap21, on 18 November 2009 - 08:38 PM, said:

Cris went downhill the moment they broke him and Nat up to put her with John. She didnt fair too well from that either. Too bad they dont have anymore scenes bc I would have rather seen your scenario play out

They'd never given Cris any real purpose, or storyline, since Nat. He was just second choice over and over, then he was in the filler story with Sarah.

I think they've hit a good place with Layla/Cris, and with his friendship with Fish. I think he has a role of his own now, a good supporting role.

I'd still love to see him share scenes with Natalie again, as I thought that was a very special relationship and I don't think new viewers have any idea of just how important he was to her, not only as someone she loved, but also as someone who cared about her and made her feel special.

That relationship was one of the best parts of OLTL around 2002/early 2003.

[MichaelGL]

Wow, quite the episode today from start to end. MA and BK made me cry today. The scenes where Natalie pulled the mint out of Jared's shirt pocket; I was gone. Bravo to whoever thought up of that scene. Jared's death has been playing all these emotional beats that I've never really witnessed on a soap.

NorrthCafe, on 18 November 2009 - 05:21 PM, said:

I'll admit that i love the thought of Clint and Kim, but only because it reminds me so much of Asa and Blair. I only hope Clint isn't made to look too foolish by the time it ends or that he doesn't become too cruel after learning he's being used. Either Clint will fall for Viki, and Kim will keep them apart, or Kim will fall for someone else, and Clint will keep them apart. Nora will feel guilty because she betrayed Clint and made him vulnerable to Kim - not accepting that he's a big boy making bad choices.

I kinda' dig the twisted sisterhood between Kim and Stacey. Outside of the forced renewed friendship of Tea and Rachel, there aren't a lot of 'friends' on this show.

I agree as well with both points. A potential pairing between Clint and Kim reminds me of Asa/Blair. This time there are so many possibilities as there were back then; from the Kim/Viki angle, potential Dorian/Kim angle, to even a Natalie/Kim angle where Natalie, after she's done grieving for Jared, might try everything in her power to stop Kim from going after her father. Kim's pursuit of Clint is destined to shake up the dynamics in the Buchanan family and I hope RC gives the story the justice it deserves. I've been waiting forever to see JvD receive some real juicy material on this show.

I'm also enjoying Stacy/Kim scheming at Rodies every now and then, Kim really does make Stacy much more tolerable.

[Juliajms]

CarlD2, on 18 November 2009 - 03:05 PM, said:

I think the rotting corpse tells us how ABC felt about the Nash character.

Umm yeah, me too. If ABC gave "whiney Forbes March fans" anything, I'm pretty sure that horrible visual was it.

I wonder if there is any chance that Jared is only "soap dead". I know we are seeing a body here, but that could be Mitch's doing with drugs and all with the doctor in on it. I won't be that shocked if he pops back up a year from now when John and Nat are about to tie the knot.

[CarlD2]

Juliajms, on 18 November 2009 - 11:19 PM, said:

I wonder if there is any chance that Jared is only "soap dead". I know we are seeing a body here, but that could be Mitch's doing with drugs and all with the doctor in on it. I won't be that shocked if he pops back up a year from now when John and Nat are about to tie the knot.

Anyone can come back on a soap. People say, well, so and so never came back, but that's because the show never had a reason. I definitely thought that the way these strange guys came in and took his body was a bit odd.

I think he was probably the love of Natalie's life, so if her story ever ties up, then, if someone at ABC can get over their issues with the Banks family, I can see Jared returning from the dead.

I can definitely see Natalie doing a Karen Wolek and going on the run with Jared. She loves her family, but she really did just about die with Jared. And I'm sure in a few months it may be "Jared who?" but like with Vicky on AW after Ryan died, something tells me Jared is the one she will always remember the most, even if she moves on.

[Juliajms]

CarlD2, on 18 November 2009 - 08:54 PM, said:

Anyone can come back on a soap.

Yes, anyone can come back these days, but in this case I think it would be credible within the framework of the show (unlike say, Philip's return on Y&R). I think they purposely left the door open with Nat mentioning that he was fine just before he had the embolism. Then shady guys take the body away and plus Mitch is on the scene. I guess what I'm saying is I think the writers gave Jared a "soap death", unlike the "real" deaths characters like Asa and Nash had.

[NorrthCafe]

MichaelGL, on 18 November 2009 - 10:24 PM, said:

...I'm also enjoying Stacy/Kim scheming at Rodies every now and then, Kim really does make Stacy much more tolerable.

Oddly enough, I think that I like the two of them because they're tough young women, they're survivors. While Gigi was busy calling them 'whores', they were thinking about how to stop from getting knocked down by life again. They're exploitative to be sure (self-exploitative and other wise), but they're surviving the only way they know how. Compare that to the "morally superior non-whores" like Gigi who crumble when they get bad news. Gigi hits the bottle or runs off crying and throwing tantrums. I'd take Stacey and Kim over Gigi (or even a character like Marcy) any day of the week.

I like them more than characters like Dorian because their intent really isn't to hurt other people, unless it means that they're hurting others to defend themselves and their own happiness. Dorian, soapgod love her, hurts others for the sake of it. She does it to nurse old wounds even when others have moved on and are living their lives.

[CarlD2]

Kim may be a survivor, I don't know her background, but Stacey came from the same place Gigi did, had the same advantage or disadavantages. I think both she and Gigi are pathetic but I'm not sure if either is more of a survivor than the other. Their biggest obstacle to survival is their own stupidity and need to kill themselves for a loser.

Julijams, I agree with what you're saying. I do think his death had some foreshadowing that all was not right. I just said if they want him to return because of the soap deaths which were obviously left open, yet have still stuck because the actor isn't going to return (like Leo on AMC), and the soap deaths that were obviously real but which were ignored because they wanted the character bac.

[NorrthCafe]

I get what you're saying, Carl, but I think the writers should explore Stacey's background more, as well. The Morasco parents weren't all that supportive - they threw a pregnant teen out into the streets and didn't take the poor baby into account. Gigi may be who she is because she got away from their parents. Stacey could be screwed up having been the one left behind. (Wasn't there another daytime story like that? A sib who went after the one who got away and left her/him with the parents?) I think that would explain Stacey's behavior, and the stripping.

[Cheap21]

Kim is the WORST thing to happen to OLTL all year. Someone please end this madness and get this skank off my screen.

[Amello]

Cheap21, on 19 November 2009 - 11:19 AM, said:

Kim is the WORST thing to happen to OLTL all year. Someone please end this madness and get this skank off my screen.

False.

[DeeeDee]

Ross meet Bus.

Bus meet Ross.

[CarlD2]

Cheap21, on 19 November 2009 - 11:19 AM, said:

Kim is the WORST thing to happen to OLTL all year. Someone please end this madness and get this skank off my screen.

I don't think she's the worst by any means but I don't care very much for her. I think she is a very cynically created character. She's supposed to make us like Stacy. Or, more likely, do the heavy lifting Crystal Hunt cannot. She's the more "fun" version of the uglier face of other women on the show -- a woman who can only live through men.

[NorrthCafe]

I like Kim and loathe what she represents, and I can agree with every word you've written, Carl! I love the observation that she the more fun version of the uglier face of other women on this show. You're articulated what makes me root for her to win over them, it's the hypocrisy.

[DeeeDee]

Melissa Archer is on fire.

Mark Lawson is a keeper.

Ron needs to keep Greg/Rachel FAR away from Todd/Tea.